GDT: New York Rangers 2018-2019 Training Camp Thread

[Ola]

Honestly, your opinion is just pretty straight up wrong.

There’s nothing wrong with quitting while you’re so obviously behind.

Seriously, I don’t think Day is a top percentile skater in the NHL. Why are we even discussing this topic? He isn’t even remotely that. Can you guys just stop?

@Levitate: What the heck are you talking about?

What makes me an authority on Day’s skating? I am expressing my opinion. I don’t think he would be among the best skaters in the NHL.

What entitles you to attack me for that?

 

[Off Sides]

McQuaid can't sit. If the Rangers took a calculated risk by acquiring McQuaid in order to trade him at the deadline, he has to play to increase his trade value, otherwise we gave the Bruins cap space and picks for absolutely nothing.

I don't think they made the trade solely to recover or enhance those assets, I think they made the trade because they want a tougher guy on the back end, character/leadership whatever.

So I am still assuming McQuaid plays unless he looks like McLeod but on D, and really it would not surprise me if McLeod played too, yet I feel as if they would have less trouble scratching or even waiving him.

I questioned the McQuaid trade from the get go. Mostly I think it puts ADA and Pionk in direct competition for one playing spot.

However if it means the Rangers want all their waiver exempt prospects in the AHL to grow together, including Pionk, I'd have less of an issue with it from both a developmental and a possible gaining more assets at the deadline perspective. Maybe some of the more vet guys play well enough to be the extra throw-ins to get a deadline deal done.

 

[gravey9]

Look, we got Adam McQuaid because we're changing our style of play and our identity. The team hasn't been very difficult to play against the last few seasons. IF we are truly going to be a relentless team that means we'll be getting in faces, a lot. And there's going to be a need for a guy who can actually play a little and drop the gloves. This team has less talent but the hope is its going to play with more fire. If that happens... guys like McQuaid will become integral to the team's cohesiveness and identity. So, let's just see. The thing you can say about McQuaid from his years as a Bruin--- at some point in every game he made his presence known. Sometimes that was a terrible defensive play. But more often than not it was him pushing his weight around. I don't think we've really had that in a while. And the hope is he's a better hockey player than Mcleod and a better fighter than --- oh wait, we don't have anyone else on the team that will fight... oh i see now...

 

[JohnC]

Seriously, I don’t think Day is a top percentile skater in the NHL. Why are we even discussing this topic? He isn’t even remotely that. Can you guys just stop?

@Levitate: What the heck are you talking about?

What makes me an authority on Day’s skating? I am expressing my opinion. I don’t think he would be among the best skaters in the NHL.

What entitles you to attack me for that?

I have no comment on the top percentile talk.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad for making other people’s lives worse with how bad it is.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

You rang?

See the above. I finally got an answer.

 

[Ola]

I have no comment on the top percentile talk.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad for making other people’s lives worse with how bad it is.

Ok, sure.

Just proves my point, I should apparently be chased off the board for not thinking that an average junior/ECHL/AHL defender is one of the top skaters in hockey, period. Not for his size, not outside the NHL, but in the NHL and notwithstanding his size.

It’s an emperors new cloaths syndrome. He was granted exceptional status=hence many assumes he is exceptional at something. Since he clearly isn’t exceptional at hockey it’s projected on his skating. ManU thinks it. Edge claims that I can’t see it because I don’t understand what skating is about.

Hockey isn’t all about skating, but if you are 230 lbs and one of the best skaters in the world you must surely become fairly good at hockey. Right?

Let’s rest this discussion now and we can revert to it later when we see how Day’s career plays out.

 

[BearishRiggs]

Hockey isn’t all about skating, but if you are 230 lbs and one of the best skaters in the world you must surely become fairly good at hockey. Right?

...no?

 

[Ola]

From my POV any claim that Day is among the top 5-6 skaters in the world, not even taking his size into consideration , is on par with the claim that that goalie, what was his name, was better than Hank.

But I recon that we will see. ManU, JohnC and Edge — when do you guys envision that Day will be a Norris Candidate? Any D 230 lbs that are among the best skaters in the world must surely sometime during his career be a Norris Candidate. Right?

BTW what is your take on Day not even getting a game in Camp? I was watching Rasmus Dahlin the other day. He was dominating with his skating for Buffalo. Many believe that he sometime during his career can become as good skater as you guys claim that Day is. Isn’t it odd that we didn’t even give someone that supposedly is a much better skater one single game in Camp?

 

[Ola]

...no?

Haha, I didn’t expect that response.

I think I need to lower my expectation bar a bit.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

From my POV any claim that Day is among the top 5-6 skaters in the world, not even taking his size into consideration , is on par with the claim that that goalie, what was his name, was better than Hank.

But I recon that we will see. ManU, JohnC and Edge — when do you guys envision that Day will be a Norris Candidate? Any D 230 lbs that are among the best skaters in the world must surely sometime during his career be a Norris Candidate. Right?

BTW what is your take on Day not even getting a game in Camp? I was watching Rasmus Dahlin the other day. He was dominating with his skating for Buffalo. Many believe that he sometime during his career can become as good skater as you guys claim that Day is. Isn’t it odd that we didn’t even give someone that supposedly is a much better skater one single game in Camp?

So skating ability = how good a player people are? You’re making gigantic logical leaps with this.
And I’m pretty sure Day was one of the last cuts last year.

 

[Ola]

So skating ability = how good a player people are? You’re making gigantic logical leaps with this.
And I’m pretty sure Day was one of the last cuts last year.

No, but come on, we aren’t talking about some alien here who was dropped on planet earth with the ability to skate but never having held a stick before or seen a puck.

Let me put it like this, if a player was 230 lbs and one of the best skaters (hockey skaters, best at functional hockey movement) you have to be very very not good at hockey to not be a star in junior, not be a good AHL D, not get into a game in camp and so forth.

Skating is a big part of hockey. Sure someone like a prime Chimera can have great straight ahead speed, but his overall skating, agility etc, was way beyond the top guys. I would for example claim that there is — nobody — outside the NHL that skates as well as McDavid. If you skate that well you will get into the NHL. Or?

 

[Levitate]

Ok, sure.

Just proves my point, I should apparently be chased off the board for not thinking that an average junior/ECHL/AHL defender is one of the top skaters in hockey, period. Not for his size, not outside the NHL, but in the NHL and notwithstanding his size.

You don't have to leave the board or anything but it boils down to you making a claim that is directly contrary to what basically everyone else says about Day, including professional scouts and people who watch prospects for a living. You are the one making the extraordinary claim here, hence the request for something more than "random person on the internet opinion" to back it up, especially when it devolves into "it's obvious that I'm just right and the only one who knows anything about hockey around here".

e: and let's be clear, this isn't just about someone saying that Day is potentially a top NHL skater as well (a point I would agree could be argued), but that you specifically said you didn't think he was a good skater period. Not just that he wasn't a top skater compared to NHLers, but that his skating in general just wasn't particularly good.

It’s an emperors new cloaths syndrome. He was granted exceptional status=hence many assumes he is exceptional at something. Since he clearly isn’t exceptional at hockey it’s projected on his skating. ManU thinks it. Edge claims that I can’t see it because I don’t understand what skating is about.

I don't see why you have to also go this way either because you're dismissing the fact that other people have watched him play with their own eyes and saying they couldn't possibly be correct and they must only think he's a good skater because he was once upon a time granted exceptional status.

Hockey isn’t all about skating, but if you are 230 lbs and one of the best skaters in the world you must surely become fairly good at hockey. Right?

Let’s rest this discussion now and we can revert to it later when we see how Day’s career plays out.

I mean...that's the problem with Day. He's a great skater, and that's about it. That's not enough to be a good NHL player.


That all said, the fact that these kind of arguments always devolve into people on both sides going "you just don't know anything about hockey at all and you suck and you probably smell" is ultimately silly. Everyone's gotta be so right and the other people so wrong that they'll do anything to put the other person down instead of just being better at arguing their point.

 

[Ola]

No 4 in blue’s skating (upper video) is supposedly up there with 97 for EDM (lower video) in terms of skating:




I am sorry but I just don’t agree.

 

[Levitate]

No, but come on, we aren’t talking about some alien here who was dropped on planet earth with the ability to skate but never having held a stick before or seen a puck.

Let me put it like this, if a player was 230 lbs and one of the best skaters (hockey skaters, best at functional hockey movement) you have to be very very not good at hockey to not be a star in junior, not be a good AHL D, not get into a game in camp and so forth.

Skating is a big part of hockey. Sure someone like a prime Chimera can have great straight ahead speed, but his overall skating, agility etc, was way beyond the top guys. I would for example claim that there is — nobody — outside the NHL that skates as well as McDavid. If you skate that well you will get into the NHL. Or?

If you skated as well as McDavid but didn't have the on ice awareness, the hands, the shot, the passing, etc, then you'd probably get a look but you wouldn't get very far in the NHL. Part of what makes McDavid so good is his skating is great, but his hands can keep up with his speed, he can see the ice and know what moves to make, and he can finish or make the play when he needs to.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

No, but come on, we aren’t talking about some alien here who was dropped on planet earth with the ability to skate but never having held a stick before or seen a puck.

Let me put it like this, if a player was 230 lbs and one of the best skaters (hockey skaters, best at functional hockey movement) you have to be very very not good at hockey to not be a star in junior, not be a good AHL D, not get into a game in camp and so forth.

Skating is a big part of hockey. Sure someone like a prime Chimera can have great straight ahead speed, but his overall skating, agility etc, was way beyond the top guys. I would for example claim that there is — nobody — outside the NHL that skates as well as McDavid. If you skate that well you will get into the NHL. Or?

Are we counting him out already then? He’s a 20 year old who’s had well documented problems before he was drafted (family and team turmoil) who the Rangers think they need to handle very carefully. He was a 3rd round draft pick who has gotten better each year since he was drafted, which is all I’m really asking for.

As for his skating being tied to how good he is, that’s pretty much the sole reason he was granted exceptional status, but unfortunately he ended up on a junior team that ended up stalling his progress as a player. He’s absolutely one of the best hockey skaters I’ve ever seen, his problem right now as a player is what he does with it

 

[Levitate]

No 4 in blue’s skating (upper video) is supposedly up there with 97 for EDM (lower video) in terms of skating:




I am sorry but I just don’t agree.

That's actually a pretty interesting video of Day because you can see in some of those rushes what this whole argument seems to be about. A couple of them he just seems to effortlessly glide up the ice yet he's moving faster than another player who's legs are churning and who is busting his ass.

that said I think this argument is also moving off into territory that is irrelevant. I think the claim that he's a top NHL skater is pointless when the original issue was that you said he just wasn't a good skater period

 

[nyr2k2]

I think Day is a great skater, but I don't think that he'd be an elite skater in the NHL. And the AHL is littered with guys that are fantastic skaters that have mush for brains and can't play in the NHL. At the moment, Day's skating (coupled with his size) is really the only thing that makes him interesting.

@Ola, I understand where you're coming from, I do. I don't agree with everything you've said in the past few pages, but I understand your underlying point.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Being a top skater is an important attribute to have to become a top dman in the league but it's not the end all be all.

If your positioning is off or you dont know what gap control is or if you have rocks for brains you will not be a successful professional defenseman.

 

[Rempe73]

McQuaid can't sit. If the Rangers took a calculated risk by acquiring McQuaid in order to trade him at the deadline, he has to play to increase his trade value, otherwise we gave the Bruins cap space and picks for absolutely nothing.

I would prefer the development of Pionk and DeAngelo over getting a measly 3rd or 4th round pick back for McQuaid.

 

[Ola]

Levitate- Fair enough. I did however say that Day’s skating was a strength for a NHL D — but that I didn’t agree with it being super good. I compared his skating to Aaron Wards skating. Aaron Ward was a 5th overall pick in a loaded draft in 91’ and was a strong skater in the NHL for someone his size. Won a cup.

But that was supposedly insane and what not according to ManUTobbe, Edge, JohnC and co.

But I just don’t see a super good skater. He was that when he was 15 for that age, but nowadays he is just a good skater but I just don’t think it’s super special.

But it is what it is, we will all be able to follow how it plays out. Before we know it Day dresses up in a game with like Rasmus Dahlin and we can see if Day is a much better skater than him or not.

 

[nyr2k2]

The front office still likes tough guys. There was no other reason to bring in McLeod (spare me the Good Locker Room Guy stuff, there are guys like that that aren't ass) and they brought in McQuaid to add snarl to the back end. I think that's pretty much it. He's going to play one way or another, in probably a majority of games. Again, that's just what the front office likes. Quinn might like it, too.

 

[Fvital92]

Day is a very good skater, unfortunately for him hockey requires a lot more than being gracious on the ice.

 

[Fvital92]

The front office still likes tough guys. There was no other reason to bring in McLeod (spare me the Good Locker Room Guy stuff, there are guys like that that aren't ass) and they brought in McQuaid to add snarl to the back end. I think that's pretty much it. He's going to play one way or another, in probably a majority of games. Again, that's just what the front office likes. Quinn might like it, too.

The problem with McLeod is that his tenure with the Rangers didn't show a single moment of toughness, in one preseason game Beleskey showed more 'teeth' than him in 20 games. He is useless.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I like that your only argument is against my claim that he's a top percentile skater, a claim me alone is saying… Everyone else who's telling you that your takes about Days skating are wrong and awful haven't ever claimed that… Yet you keep arguing against me...

Also, i haven't equated his skating with how good of a prospect he is, i full well know his limitations and weaknesses… I probably haven't seen the most of Day on this forum (NYR part) but i promise i'm not far down the list.

 

[hi]

This just seems like a really silly argument all around and I can't be the only one that would rather not read another 4 pages of arguing about Sean Day tbh. He has no chance of making the team this year. He's a good skater. I'm going to go hug a tree.