Blue Jays Discussion: New players, new uniform, new thread

[phillipmike]

Got some good prospects news coming about Pearson's potential, how close Orelivs Martinez and Kirk were. Why Groshans wasnt rated higher.

 

[phillipmike]

Manoah was close to being a top 100 prospect. Kirk and Moreno have got attention from BA.

SWR is untouchable.

No one’s complaining about the Blue Jays’ end of the Marcus Stroman trade any more | The Star

The perceived lack of return put Atkins under the spotlight. Many people believed the Jays should have secured a better package or made a more concerted effort to sign Stroman long term. Add in another maligned trade with Houston for right-hander Aaron Sanchez and the criticism surrounding the front office by mid-summer was almost deafening.

Throughout the complaints, Atkins and his staff maintained the Jays did get a top-100 prospect and that many others within the industry agreed. They pointed to Woods Richardson being the youngest pitcher in the Florida State League, with advanced skills that exceeded his peers. No, he wasn’t close to ready, but he possessed the type of high upside the organization so desperately craved. Toronto insisted he was the kind of guy worth waiting for.

The updated rankings back up what the Jays have been saying for months behind the scenes. Toronto isn’t shopping Woods Richardson, and there’s no reason to expect a deal, but he’s the name teams keep bringing up in talks. He’s in demand and while clubs know Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette and Nate Pearson are essentially off-limits, they’re in the process of finding out the same about Woods Richardson.

 

[phillipmike]

2020 Prospects: The Top 101 - Baseball Prospectus

19. Nate Pearson, RHP, Toronto Blue Jays
43. Jordan Groshans, SS, Toronto Blue Jays
83. Alek Manoah, RHP, Toronto Blue Jays

 

[phillipmike]

 

[phillipmike]

Best tools among 2020's Top 100 prospects

Best fastball: Nate Pearson, RHP, Blue Jays (80) -- ETA: 2020
Pearson famously hit 104 mph with his fastball during the Arizona Fall League's 2018 Fall Stars Game (and also surrendered a homer to Pete Alonso on a 103-mph heater in the same contest). He usually ranges from 98-101 mph and maintains his velocity as a starter, generating it easily with an athletic delivery that he repeats, allowing him to command his fastball as well.
Also in the running: Hunter Greene, RHP, Reds; Michael Kopech, RHP, White Sox; Brailyn Marquez, LHP, Cubs

Best slider: A.J. Puk, LHP, Athletics (65) -- ETA: 2020
Slowed by Tommy John surgery in 2018, Puk returned last year with his trademark slider and relied heavily on it after the A's called him up in August for bullpen help. His slider averaged 90 mph in the big leagues and has such vicious lateral break that it eats up left-handers and right-handers alike.
Also in the running: Shane Baz, RHP, White Sox; Michael Kopech, RHP, White Sox; Nate Pearson, RHP, Blue Jays

 

[phillipmike]

Predicting all 30 rotations for 2020

Blue Jays
The Blue Jays are in a much different position from when they headed into the offseason, with a mostly solidified starting rotation, as well as starting depth in the Minor Leagues to help get through the year. The addition of Hyun-Jin Ryu in December gave Toronto a bona fide ace, and bringing Tanner Roark and Chase Anderson into the fold offered stability to a rotation that lacked in that area. After Matt Shoemaker made only five starts last year, the Blue Jays are hoping for a healthy season from the right-hander, which would leave just the fifth spot potentially open for competition at Spring Training. Japanese hurler Shun Yamaguchi has experience both in the bullpen and rotation. Young hurlers Trent Thornton and Ryan Borucki could use the spring to make their cases to head north with the team. -- Alexis Brudnicki

Rotation if the season started today:
1) Hyun-Jin Ryu
2) Tanner Roark
3) Matt Shoemaker
4) Chase Anderson
5) Shun Yamaguchi

 

[NeverGoingToWin]

Trade is Marte for Brennan Malone and Liover Peguero.

 

[phillipmike]

I like the return for the Pirates, not a D'Backs-type move but similar to the Jays they have built up their farms and maybe want to be a bit more competitive as they were close to a playoff spot last year.

I like that the D'backs are adding but i dont like what they gave up for 2 years of Marte.

 

[Discoverer]

Yeah, that strikes me as an awful trade for Arizona.

 

[phillipmike]

Ben Clemens FanGraphs Chat – 1/27/20

Could Danny Jansen and Ken Giles make sense for Senzel?

I'm not sure whether shortstop or catcher is more of a hole for the team, but I think this Blue Jays offer makes some sense. Not sure who says no on that one.
The shortstop trade market isn't exactly deep unless the Rockies go all Arenado and trade Story
So given that, this kind of offer makes sense to me.

I bit rich but i would take it and i love Jansen!

Get me Senzel, McGuire starts at catcher and we sign Martin to back up McGuire. Martin caught 130 of Ryu's 182 innings which produced a to 1.52 ERA.

And if McGuire sucks then we got Kirk and Moreno in 1-2 years.

 

[Eyedea]

Only issue I have with Senzel is the whole getting injured every year thing.

 

[landy92mack29]

as I posted earlier I'm not moving Jansen and would add a pitching prospect to McGuire to make up the difference. Maybe add Alford/McKinney/Fisher to fill the OF spot Senzel would leave

 

[phillipmike]

as I posted earlier I'm not moving Jansen and would add a pitching prospect to McGuire to make up the difference. Maybe add Alford/McKinney/Fisher to fill the OF spot Senzel would leave

Reds have an abundance of OFs hence why they would trade Senzel, so they wouldnt need any back.

CF: Shogo Akiyama
RF: Aristides Aquino
LF: Nicholas Castellanos

Plus Winker and Ervin on the bench.

They are trading a better playerin Senzel, they will need a comparable quality guy back that fills a need and that would be at catcher or SS. I would love to land Senzel using McGuire and other pieces but it likely isnt enough. Would likely have to be Jansen or bust imo, could be wrong.

I still doubt they move him, if im the Reds, i try him out at SS before i make a trade.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Yeah, if I'm them, he's playing SS and I'm shifting\getting creative to make it passable before I deal him. That is, unless the Dodgers are interested in a Gavin Lux 1 for 1.

 

[Discoverer]

Yeah, if I'm them, he's playing SS and I'm shifting\getting creative to make it passable before I deal him. That is, unless the Dodgers are interested in a Gavin Lux 1 for 1.

Yeah, the Reds are a bit weird though, so you never know, I guess.

 

[phillipmike]

Also worth noting that news came down today that the NL is likely to adopt a DH in 2021. If its not 2021, then its likely going to be 2022; its coming soon and it will be awesome to never see pitchers hit on a daily basis.

Report: National League could adopt DH in 2021 - amNewYork

That would help the Reds out a lot. And maybe not, as Boras negotiated an opt out after years 1 and 2 for Castellanos, so perhaps more teams will be interested in him next season as a DH.

 

[The Nemesis]

Also worth noting that news came down today that the NL is likely to adopt a DH in 2021. If its not 2021, then its likely going to be 2022; its coming soon and it will be awesome to never see pitchers hit on a daily basis.

Report: National League could adopt DH in 2021 - amNewYork

That would help the Reds out a lot. And maybe not, as Boras negotiated an opt out after years 1 and 2 for Castellanos, so perhaps more teams will be interested in him next season as a DH.

As a fan of an AL team I enjoy the occasional dalliance with pitchers hitting as a matter of interleague play. But I don't think I'd want to watch the pointlessness of watching a spot in the batting order collectively struggle its way to being below the mendoza line.

 

[landy92mack29]

Reds have an abundance of OFs hence why they would trade Senzel, so they wouldnt need any back.

CF: Shogo Akiyama
RF: Aristides Aquino
LF: Nicholas Castellanos

Plus Winker and Ervin on the bench.

They are trading a better playerin Senzel, they will need a comparable quality guy back that fills a need and that would be at catcher or SS. I would love to land Senzel using McGuire and other pieces but it likely isnt enough. Would likely have to be Jansen or bust imo, could be wrong.

I still doubt they move him, if im the Reds, i try him out at SS before i make a trade.

I have Giles as part of the deal as well to help their pen out. Giles, McGuire and a non Pearson/SWR/Manoah pitching prospect. The OF was more a throw in for depth but not needed as none of them really have value

 

[phillipmike]

This is great!

 

[phillipmike]

As a fan of an AL team I enjoy the occasional dalliance with pitchers hitting as a matter of interleague play. But I don't think I'd want to watch the pointlessness of watching a spot in the batting order collectively struggle its way to being below the mendoza line.

I just dont get why anyone would be against it. I know traditionalists from the NL have spoken against for years but i have yet to hear a good reason. If you really wanted to have your pitchers bat, you are still welcome to do that. When you hand in your lineup card put your starting pitcher in the lineup, that simple. Since no manager would do that, the debate it over. If pitchers were competent batters, thats one thing, but since they arent, it will be a fine day when the NL finally adopts a DH.

The State of Pitchers Hitting

In 1968, The Year of the Pitcher (but, you know, on the mound), pitchers in major league baseball posted a slash line of .132/.167/.171, good for a wRC+ of 1, in 9,024 plate appearances. A decade later? Just 5,185 plate appearances, but the slash line improved a bit, to .148/.183/.188, though the wRC+ dipped to -1. By 1988, as more and more pitchers spent less and less time hitting, it dropped to .133/.163/.168 and a -9 wRC+. It rallied to .146/.187/.183 and a wRC+ of -6 in 1998. And even as overall offense remained pretty static in 2008, major league pitchers slashed just .139/.177/.176 that season. And by 2018? Pitchers overall hit .115/.144/.148 in the major leagues in 2018 in 5,135 plate appearances. That’s a -25 wRC+

Watching a -25 wRC+ hit 3+ times a night was, and is a joke.

Not really a response to you, just me venting.

 

[The Nemesis]

I just dont get why anyone would be against it. I know traditionalists from the NL have spoken against for years but i have yet to hear a good reason. If you really wanted to have your pitchers bat, you are still welcome to do that. When you hand in your lineup card put your starting pitcher in the lineup, that simple. Since no manager would do that, the debate it over. If pitchers were competent batters, thats one thing, but since they arent, it will be a fine day when the NL finally adopts a DH.

The State of Pitchers Hitting



Watching a -25 wRC+ hit 3+ times a night was, and is a joke.

Not really a response to you, just me venting.

I get it and I'm right there with you.

I know the most common rationale is usually "strategery" based on NL managers using stuff like double-switches or timing reliever hand-offs based on the batting order, or greater emphasis on smallball because the pitcher spot and often the 8 spot become glorified sacrifice opportunities.

I say a double switch is fun, but not fun enough to negate a guy who's an all-but-guaranteed out and who probably doesn't bunt any better than any other random player you ask to do it (and of course because bunting is stupid most of the time anyway).

If a dude like Ryan Goins is unemployable because he bats so horrendously that not even stellar defensive ability could keep him in the lineup I don't see why we should be accepting of that level of output from another position when a viable alternative exists.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Getting Senzel would be amazing. I love Jansen but that's certainly be a guy I'd be putting him on the table for. McGuire++ would be even better if they could keep Pearson, Groshans, and SWR off limits.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Using Baseball Trade Value it's tough to fins anything that works for me that they'd call fair. Senzel is estimated at 67.1 million in value. That would be roughly equivalent to their estimations for Jansen + Biggio + Hiraldo(66.8). Which is an easy no from me. Groshans + Kirk + Thornton(67.4) is a little closer in my book, but I don't think that fits the Reds needs at all.

 

[phillipmike]

Using Baseball Trade Value it's tough to fins anything that works for me that they'd call fair. Senzel is estimated at 67.1 million in value. That would be roughly equivalent to their estimations for Jansen + Biggio + Hiraldo(66.8). Which is an easy no from me. Groshans + Kirk + Thornton(67.4) is a little closer in my book, but I don't think that fits the Reds needs at all.

Both would be a no go for me. Ill make a move for Senzel if we could use one of our catchers as the centerpiece, if we have to add players like Biggio, Hiraldo, Kirk and/or Thornton or use Groshans as a centerpiece then count me out.

I cant even say with a high level of certainty he will have a better short term future than Jansen or Biggio, let alone both.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Sounds like Castellanos is going to the Reds