Speculation: New Arena/Management Update

[Jakey53]

True, I haven't seen the loan doc but have been involved with enough of these types of financings to know how they work. They can't call the loan.

Unless you are in default. Who ever backs these loans have their a-- covered and then some. Maybe the NHL is a guarantor for AB's loans. No body has any idea what the tiny print says.

 

[Jakey53]

Barroway isn't stupid and the NHL or any lender at this level isn't going to make a loan designed to fail and break covenants. FYI, covenants are had to breach anyway, and there is a cure period. The last thing the NHL wants is a foreclosure proceeding, its just not going to happen.

You are right. If AB can't make a loan payment, the NHL will step in.

 

[Jakey53]

Barroway probably knows he’s a puppet. Just a place-holder.

He may be, but I don't think AB thinks he is. He wants to be a NHL owner. Can he or will he survive time will tell.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

A free game shuttle from Westgate to the new arena would be a good way to show appreciation for the West Valley fans.

The franchise isn't going to do squat to "show appreciation" for West Valley fans outside of a desultory line in a press release. The minute the Coyotes leave GRA, the only acknowledgement that we exist will be in a discussion of TV demographics.

 

[Murf]

Glendale’s Got Game, but didn’t show up for said game, proving 15 years of naysaying to be correct.

Now someone else can have game.

 

[Bondurant]

I am firmly in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode. The lack of official news and more discussion about Houston makes me wonder.

 

[cobra427]

Unless you are in default. Who ever backs these loans have their a-- covered and then some. Maybe the NHL is a guarantor for AB's loans. No body has any idea what the tiny print says.

I have a pretty good idea of what the fine print says. I can tell you fundamentally that the lender and the guarantor, if it is the NHL, do not want to foreclose and/or force Barroways hand. That is always a last resort. If Barroway is in default, there is a cure period and extensions to sort it all out. The NHL won't go down that path because of the bad press alone. I doubt there is anything hostile going on, everyone wants a solution.

I think the bottom line is that Barroway wanted control and he got it. Barroway now needs outside investors and can't find a minority investor that will let him keep the control he wants. Barroway might now be like the former ownership group, meaning buy me out if you want me to give up control. The team will stay in AZ regardless, that much is clear, the NHL isn't leaving the valley.

 

[Mosby]

Barroway has been a good guy for the league. Bailed them out of IceArizona. Also he spotted a $30M loan to the Devils when they were in trouble (prior to his purchase of the Coyotes).

If he's giving up ownership, he'll definitely be made whole, and probably even walk away a richer man.

 

[Jagged Ice]

. The team will stay in AZ regardless, that much is clear, the NHL isn't leaving the valley.

With Phoenix being a top 5 population market and rapidly growing, the NHL likely isn't moving this team. But Houston sure makes sense being an even bigger market, a natural rival to Dallas, centrally located and the Central division needs a Pacific team with Seattle around the corner. I hope they just switch us or Vegas to the Central division. It's not going to be an Alberta team although Calgary would make sense.

 

[Kaizen]

I have a pretty good idea of what the fine print says. I can tell you fundamentally that the lender and the guarantor, if it is the NHL, do not want to foreclose and/or force Barroways hand. That is always a last resort. If Barroway is in default, there is a cure period and extensions to sort it all out. The NHL won't go down that path because of the bad press alone. I doubt there is anything hostile going on, everyone wants a solution.

I think the bottom line is that Barroway wanted control and he got it. Barroway now needs outside investors and can't find a minority investor that will let him keep the control he wants. Barroway might now be like the former ownership group, meaning buy me out if you want me to give up control. The team will stay in AZ regardless, that much is clear, the NHL isn't leaving the valley.

Finite control absolutely - as long as he dots his i's and crosses his t's AB can't be shown the door. Has he done that? I have no way of knowing. Speculation about what the detail in the loan document contains is pointless. The NHL has AB on a short leash - it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm confident Barroway will come out of the deal with more than he went in.

 

[finkelsteinberg]

My girlfriend works for a strategic consulting firm and her boss was over last night. He said the proposed site being talked about is the one that was talked about prior, near the Cubs spring training facility/Mesa River View. They seem to have found some way around the legislature which is what killed the last proposal from what I understand. There is a group of people in Tempe trying to make it happen. I asked if it would be under new ownership and didn't get an exact confirmation of that but strongly hinted at that. He mentioned the reservation land as the next up proposal after MRV.

 

[finkelsteinberg]

Forgot to mention. The Coyotes/NHL would pay half of the arena costs and the city would put in a sales tax increase around the area to fund the other half. So basically all the land development around there would be taxed higher.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Glendale’s Got Game, but didn’t show up for said game, proving 15 years of naysaying to be correct.

Now someone else can have game.

...and by "have game" we mean another Valley city can backdoor subsidize a new building that will sit half-empty unless the team makes the playoffs.

 

[TheLegend]

Glendale’s Got Game, but didn’t show up for said game, proving 15 years of naysaying to be correct.

Now someone else can have game.

Ponying up $400 million in tax dollars since 2001 to support a franchise with a revolving door ownership isn’t having game???

Oy vey.....

 

[knich]

I did look.....

Phoenix Coyotes yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

Attendance numbers in Glendale were 1-2,000 per game higher the first five years, than the last three years at AWA and for the past four years at GRA have been on par with those last three at AWA in spite of the team's performance.

Sure the arena would be in Scottsdale..... but would Scottsdale have shoveled out the $50 million over two years to the NHL plus agree to all the other subsidy support to keep the team there like Glendale did??? Ellman was playing with borrowed money he didn't have. The recession exposed this.

Scottsdale's city council was skeptical of Ellman and how much financial stability he had backing the Los Arcos project and they were proven to be right.

And if Glendale had not stepped up (to the tune of about $400 million when you add everything they've put into it) this franchise would have been in Portland the past 18 years. Consider THAT a gift.

You are forgetting ( or perhaps unaware of) a few glaring facts. First, the downtown arena capacity for hockey was 16,ooo seats. Glendale is 17,000 seats. Second, downtown had over 4,000 obstructed (you could only see 1 goal ..ask Brooklyn how that's working for them) seats. Glendale has zero obstructed seats. Third, The Coyotes weren't literally giving away tickets downtown like they have done in Glendale. Fourth, why do you think Bettman has said and the ownership groups have stated publicly that the business model does not work in Glendale? Go back to my last post for the answer.

While it is true Glendale was the white knight who came in and funded the arena that we now know it clearly did not have the means to fund, the moment after Glendale agreed to fund the arena, the Scottsdale City Council was still willing to negotiate with Ellman. The fact is Glendale made an offer Ellman (a developer..not a fan) could not refuse and did not want Scottsdale digging in to his finances. So we will NEVER know if the team would have remained in AZ. Any suggestion otherwise is pure speculation.

 

[KG]

Patterson resigned so who has been the arena guy? Cohen? Or is the NHL working behind the scenes?

 

[jmichael7753]

Patterson resigned so who has been the arena guy? Cohen? Or is the NHL working behind the scenes?

Patterson did stay on as a consultant though.

 

[Summer Rose]

Here's my prediction, Shane Doan will lead a new ownership group with David Hale, Richard Branson and Dolly Parton. The Arena will be located in Queen creek and will be completed in 2 weeks.

Seriously I hope this comes to pass, I have never seen a white Christmas or stable ownership.

I've seen one white Christmas (2016). So, this may happen.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Team wins, people show, Glendale or elsewhere.
Where they play matters not to me personally, but I can't in any way, shape/ form feel good about another arena being built without good reason/need and this scenario provides no such reason.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Team wins, people show, Glendale or elsewhere.
Where they play matters not to me personally, but I can't in any way, shape/ form feel good about another arena being built without good reason/need and this scenario provides no such reason.

Don’t underestimate the power of the dark side of the traffic, young Jedi. Certainly don’t underestimate the formidable drag on attendance for weeknight games. A great team will fill the house on Saturdays, but unless they can entice 5,000 or so more West Valley fans to the arena they won’t fill the weeknights.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Don’t underestimate the power of the dark side of the traffic, young Jedi. Certainly don’t underestimate the formidable drag on attendance for weeknight games. A great team will fill the house on Saturdays, but unless they can entice 5,000 or so more West Valley fans to the arena they won’t fill the weeknights.

That weeknight traffic on the 101 down by the 202 is going to be every bit the joy-killer that you'd find anywhere else on the Phoenix freeways. Once the newness wears off the new barn, the same people who complain about the drive to Glendale will complain about the drive to Tempe. Those are the folks who need guaranteed success for motivation. The die-hards will go regardless, and the casuals will just debate the theory over and over again.

That's how it is in this state for everything. There's too much to do for people to get good and obsessed over one thing, like they do in Green Bay, and there's not enough population density to healthfully support four sports like California and New York do. So when the teams do well, they draw - particularly late in the season - and when they don't people find other things to do.

Building a new barn in a new place isn't going to change Arizona's human nature.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Excuse it is, Obi Wan.
Playoff games packed, they were.

 

[TheLegend]

You are forgetting ( or perhaps unaware of) a few glaring facts. First, the downtown arena capacity for hockey was 16,ooo seats. Glendale is 17,000 seats. Second, downtown had over 4,000 obstructed (you could only see 1 goal ..ask Brooklyn how that's working for them) seats. Glendale has zero obstructed seats. Third, The Coyotes weren't literally giving away tickets downtown like they have done in Glendale. Fourth, why do you think Bettman has said and the ownership groups have stated publicly that the business model does not work in Glendale? Go back to my last post for the answer.

While it is true Glendale was the white knight who came in and funded the arena that we now know it clearly did not have the means to fund, the moment after Glendale agreed to fund the arena, the Scottsdale City Council was still willing to negotiate with Ellman. The fact is Glendale made an offer Ellman (a developer..not a fan) could not refuse and did not want Scottsdale digging in to his finances. So we will NEVER know if the team would have remained in AZ. Any suggestion otherwise is pure speculation.

No I didn’t overlook anything..... Yotes were averaging over 15k at AWA their first three seasons. In spite of the obstructed seats.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Building a new barn in a new place isn't going to change Arizona's human nature.

It would waste plenty of money though.

 

[TheLegend]

Patterson resigned so who has been the arena guy? Cohen? Or is the NHL working behind the scenes?

Cohen.... plus the consultant that was hired by IA while back when they began looking elsewhere. (Name escapes me atm.)

Patterson did stay on as a consultant though.

Not really from what I understand. He did go back to run his consulting firm. But in a post resignation interview he indicated he got them pointed in the direction they needed to go and they (Cohen and Co.) were able to take it from there.