Speculation: New Arena/Management Update

Discussion in 'Arizona Coyotes' started by yotefan4life, Nov 2, 2018.

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  1. MIG

    MIG Undocumented User

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    True, but the rail lines are expanding, and when you use one you don't necessarily take it end to end. I went to a game at Fenway once. We drove from outside the city to a parking lot where we dropped the car and hopped on the train which delivered us very close to the stadium. The trains don't necessarily eliminate car travel, but reduce the number of cars driving to the stadium.
     
  2. The Feckless Puck

    The Feckless Puck Registered Loser

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    In Arizona, it's because of taxes and the citizens' utter loathing thereof. Not to mention that building a truly competent metro system in greater Phoenix would take at least a decade and would badly disrupt the metro area (see Boston's "Big Dig," but on a much larger scale). So most people (not me) feel like it'd be a waste of time, money, and effort.

    Very similar to some sketches I have made over the past 30-some years (although the central station would be closer to downtown proper and some of the routing would be different). Mine were based on how the Boston and Washington metro networks are laid out but they follow the same hub-and-spoke pattern.

    Anyone who's ever used a good metro system loves the efficiency and convenience. I've used metro systems in Boston, Washington, D.C., Mexico City, and Moscow, and all of them were enormous time-savers (although the Moscow system was so overloaded that it wasn't nearly as pleasant as the other three to use). Particularly in Boston - I lived in New Hampshire and simply drove to the metro station just over the border from Nashua, parked for the day, and took the train in to my job, or to Fenway for a Sox game, or downtown for sightseeing. My wife would take it every week to go into the city with my then-toddler daughters to see the sights. It was fantastic.

    Unfortunately, not here. The most basic problem is that the ground is simply too hard to easily tunnel a metro system - it'd cost a lot of money to go underground. The alternate option would be to do an elevated train/monorail system (cue Simpsons gag here), which, if solar powered, could be an interesting green alternative - but I don't know whether any metro cities have an appetite to have something like that running through their towns.

    Football stadiums are significantly different than ice hockey arenas. We have two convertible-roof stadiums already in Arizona - Chase Field and State Farm Stadium - and both have massive air-conditioning systems to help keep the fans relatively cool. But the coolest they get with the roofs open is around 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit; in contrast, a hockey arena needs to be in the low 60s to keep the ice at a manageable temperature and consistency for gameplay. We already get complaints from teams around the league that we have some of the worst ice in the NHL because we have problems keeping the arena cool enough (although I'm sure our ice plant is partially to blame for that as well).

    It's an interesting idea if someone could get it to work, but we don't have Qatar's budget... :D
     
  3. The Feckless Puck

    The Feckless Puck Registered Loser

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    I did the same in Boston, and it worked great. But if I have to drive from Peoria to downtown Phoenix just to catch light rail, then how much time and effort do I save? It'd be like driving from Mesa to Metrocenter in order to catch a ride to Westgate - it's just not enough of an incentive. There'd need to be a mix of commuter rail from the outlying suburbs to connect to the light rail system (a la Utah's FrontRunner trains, which I must say are really amazingly cool and work fantastically).
     
  4. MIG

    MIG Undocumented User

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    Right...it's a process. Gonna take time. Also possible that autonomous cars will become ubiquitous enough to reduce traffic congestion and the monotony of driving across the city. That might squash future rail plans.
     
  5. Art.Vandelay

    Art.Vandelay @kash2112

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    Did they do anything like this at Salt River Fields?
     
  6. LAIslanderFan

    LAIslanderFan Registered User

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    Thought I'd chime in. I have a house in Surprise, and when I go into Phoenix proper, I like to
    park my car at the 19th and Montebello station and take the light rail in. I've done that for Dback games
    as well as a Comic Convention at the convention center last may. It will help you avoid downtown traffic and also saves you the stress of looking for parking.
    By the way, side note, they wanted to extend the light rail to downtown Glendale, but the dopes
    in the Glendale City Council voted it down. That will put a plug on any chances the light rail makes it
    out to the west valley.
     
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  7. Sinurgy

    Sinurgy 1) Rebuild 2) Repeat

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    I think most people are ok with higher taxes for infrastructure, the problem is the complete breakdown in our social trust contracts. No one trusts those in charge to do what they claim they will much less do it with even a modicum of efficiency.
     
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  8. Bonsai Tree

    Bonsai Tree Turning a new leaf

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    ick
     
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  9. Bonsai Tree

    Bonsai Tree Turning a new leaf

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    The ring line is a sight to see. Museums for stations. Also, have you ever seen steeper, faster escalators than in Moscow?
     
  10. Bonsai Tree

    Bonsai Tree Turning a new leaf

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    The future of metro transportation is above, not below. An automated air car control would require less infrastructure than a subway, requiring landing stations and communication towers. The technology is a few decades away, but in order to quadruple (at least) the metro transportation capacity you have to go up, not down.
     
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  11. lanky

    lanky Registered User

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    As soon as you take control away from the drivers, with their questionable decisions, delayed reactions and limited ability to communicate with other vehicles, then capacity of the roads goes way up.
     
  12. Jakey53

    Jakey53 Registered User

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    The governments take enough taxes already. They want everyone else to cut back, but themselves. Complete breakdown in trust is saying it lightly. People complain about the elected, but we are the dumb a---- who vote them in. Mind you, when you only have dumb and dumber to vote for causes a problem.
     
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  13. The Feckless Puck

    The Feckless Puck Registered Loser

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    Nope - although there were a couple of escalators in DC that gave me a little bit of the vertigo I felt in Russia. But in Moscow, you feel like you're headed on the fast track into the bowels of hell. And I don't know if they have upgraded since I was there, but that impression didn't go away once you got on the car and got stuck in standing-room-only with a factory worker with Jurassic-era B.O. :D

    Yeah. There are a lot of practical reasons why you can't tunnel in metro Phoenix anyway, but the advent of automated taxis and self-driving cars will make intercity rail more or less obsolete. Air taxis, though, are a pipe dream - the airspace and current ATC are already so overloaded that trying to find a niche among all the general, military, and commercial aviation traffic is going to take decades at least.
     
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  14. MIG

    MIG Undocumented User

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    Since the adoption of self-driving will not occur all at once, I wonder if cities will designate "autonomous lanes."
     
  15. Tom Polakis

    Tom Polakis Eternal Optimist

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    Maybe so. The gap in the plot is narrowing.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. The Feckless Puck

    The Feckless Puck Registered Loser

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    Wouldn't be surprised to see them incentivize HOV lanes that way.
     
  17. MIG

    MIG Undocumented User

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    Just because you don't have one doesn't mean they are not here.

    On a serious note, current technology allows hundreds of drones to fly in very tight patterns, even crossing each others path, without colliding. This could remove one of the big safety fears around flying cars that they are very dangerous. If the flying car was also autonomous, much of the crash likelihood could be removed.

    I still don't see wide adoption due to cost, but the technology exists to implement them today. All you need now is the government to allow them.

    Cool video demonstrates "barrier certificates"

     
  18. Dirty Old Man

    Dirty Old Man Wassup b*****s! Sponsor

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    One pictures that's sorta how flocks of birds work...which makes one wonder if birds ever mess with each other while migrating "hey, Chirpie, check this out; watch what happens when I take the air off of Mr. Feathers' wing"...
     
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  19. DaBadGuy7

    DaBadGuy7 Registered User

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    Not that this is relevant to the Coyotes, but Suns get their arena renovations deal:
     
  20. rt

    rt Registered User Sponsor

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    Dumb. Shoulda thrown em out.
     
  21. RABBIT

    RABBIT Do it for Makaveli Sponsor

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    I love how their ownership and relocation woes lasted like 2 seconds and ours like 12 years and counting
     
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  22. Scott MS

    Scott MS Registered User

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    Suns renovations deal was approved and I see that as a good thing for the Coyotes because the Suns will stay downtown. Sarver was never going to share an arena with the Coyotes.

    The Coyotes need to work with Talking Stick and build an arena by Salt River Fields and the Talking Stick Resort. That entire area is continuing to grow as an entertainment district. Build an arena across from the hotel and attract the entire Scottsdale crowd.
     
  23. The Feckless Puck

    The Feckless Puck Registered Loser

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    I've been saying this for (*checks calendar*) actual years now. From what I understand, this actually had a brief chance of happening, but negotiations fell through because of some sort of subsidy ask (don't recall who asked for it - the team, or the tribal family that owns that section of the reservation) that the Indian Authority turned down. So right now the focus is on the southern Scottsdale corridor by Tempe. Far less ideal, IMO, and a lot farther away from the money and amenities everyone attaches to Scottsdale, but still in the East Valley. We'll see if anything comes of it - the rumored negotiations that started this thread in the first place have either not gone anywhere or aren't progressed enough to report on.
     
  24. awfulwaffle

    awfulwaffle Registered User

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    Or hopefully both sides understand what has happened in the past announcing things before they have happened. I feel like this ownership group is much more professional, and once there is news to report the will. I think if what started this fell through we would know about it by now. I'm going with no news is good news.
     
  25. The Feckless Puck

    The Feckless Puck Registered Loser

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    I understand why you might feel that way about the theorized new ownership group - but does anyone really know anything about them at all, other than a hint that Shane Doan is somehow involved? The only halfway credible intel I have heard to date is that there have been several attempts to do something on tribal land plots with various tribal groups, and that none of those proposals were 100% privately financed. I've also heard that the subsidy ask (via either public money or Indian Authority financing) is what has crippled or killed the prior negotiations. Other than that, I'm completely in the dark about what might be going on.

    I think that we could say that they're more professional than IceArizona was, but that's a pretty low bar. :D
     
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