Online Series: NETFLIX (The General All Things Netflix Thread)

[Mr Jiggyfly]

To me that's a very weird take on the show, and way off the mark. If you felt acceptance, it's probably a reaction to cognitive dissonance.

Or maybe you need to pay the series closer attention?

Flanagan literally said the series was a parable about teaching others to have empathy and acceptance for others beliefs, be that in a god or not.

It didn’t take much deep thought to catch what Flanagan was trying to tell us, so no clue how you missed it TBTH.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Or maybe you need to pay the series closer attention?

Flanagan literally said the series was a parable about teaching others to have empathy and acceptance for others beliefs, be that in a god or not.

It didn’t take much deep thought to catch what Flanagan was trying to tell us, so no clue how you missed it TBTH.

Look at that, argumentum ab auctoritate, you must be right then!!

What I read was that the show was conceived has an invitation to people of every beliefs, never anything conclusive about what those people should find in it or what the show would tell them concretely. But going to Flanagan and what he said, you're right, doesn't take much "deep thought" to understand where he is going...

“I was shocked, for the first time comprehending what a really strange book it is, [The Bible]. There were so many ideas I’d never heard before in church, and the violence of the Old Testament God is terrifying! Slaughtering babies and drowning the earth! It really struck me that I didn’t know my faith at that point. [...]”
And also from The New York Times: "Like Riley, Flanagan spent years studying various religions. Ultimately, the books that most spoke to him espoused atheism, rationalism and science — books by Samuel Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Carl Sagan. “I had more of a spiritual reaction from reading ‘Pale Blue Dot’ than I ever had reading the Bible,”"

And from Vanity Fair: "Flanagan was raised Catholic and served as an altar boy at his parishes on Governors Island in New York and in Bowie, Maryland. That history heavily inspired the setting, along with other doubts and philosophies he developed as he grew up and tested those old beliefs. “This isn’t about just Catholicism, it’s about the traditions of all of our religions, especially ones that reach back into the ancient world,” Flanagan says. “The ancient world was a bloody and violent and terrifying place where we didn’t understand the nature or the weather, or whether we’d live through the night or through the season. And every single natural function of the planet could be made to feel like a supernatural attack.”"

Now I'm not saying your quote about the show aiming at teaching others empathy and acceptance for others' beliefs doesn't exist - I couldn't find it with a quick search, but it might exist - I'm just saying that's not what the show does, and that thinking otherwise is still probably a reaction to cognitive dissonance.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

And well, the show being about a dangerous egomaniac believer who mistakes a vampire for an angel and imposes his beliefs on a whole community, the "parabole" seems very clear to me and I don't see how anyone could read that as an invitation for empathy and acceptance, no matter what the director did or say before or after.

 

[Fripp]

Midnight Mass was absolutely spectacular. Those endless monologues are riveting - particularly the one if ep5 where the priest lays out the moral justification for what they're about to do before they know they're about to do it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Look at that, argumentum ab auctoritate, you must be right then!!

What I read was that the show was conceived has an invitation to people of every beliefs, never anything conclusive about what those people should find in it or what the show would tell them concretely. But going to Flanagan and what he said, you're right, doesn't take much "deep thought" to understand where he is going...

“I was shocked, for the first time comprehending what a really strange book it is, [The Bible]. There were so many ideas I’d never heard before in church, and the violence of the Old Testament God is terrifying! Slaughtering babies and drowning the earth! It really struck me that I didn’t know my faith at that point. [...]”
And also from The New York Times: "Like Riley, Flanagan spent years studying various religions. Ultimately, the books that most spoke to him espoused atheism, rationalism and science — books by Samuel Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Carl Sagan. “I had more of a spiritual reaction from reading ‘Pale Blue Dot’ than I ever had reading the Bible,”"

And from Vanity Fair: "Flanagan was raised Catholic and served as an altar boy at his parishes on Governors Island in New York and in Bowie, Maryland. That history heavily inspired the setting, along with other doubts and philosophies he developed as he grew up and tested those old beliefs. “This isn’t about just Catholicism, it’s about the traditions of all of our religions, especially ones that reach back into the ancient world,” Flanagan says. “The ancient world was a bloody and violent and terrifying place where we didn’t understand the nature or the weather, or whether we’d live through the night or through the season. And every single natural function of the planet could be made to feel like a supernatural attack.”"

Now I'm not saying your quote about the show aiming at teaching others empathy and acceptance for others' beliefs doesn't exist - I couldn't find it with a quick search, but it might exist - I'm just saying that's not what the show does, and that thinking otherwise is still probably a reaction to cognitive dissonance.

A long winded, nonsensical rant just to be wrong - cool.

You looked about as hard as you did trying to understand Flannagan’s message I suppose?

I hope that people come out of it and are able to really look at each other with perhaps a tiny bit more empathy. It's a parable, more than anything else," Flanagan added.

https://screenrant.com/midnight-mass-show-meaning-plot-mike-flanagan/

His message is quite clear if you are actually you know - paying attention beyond the vampires and scary things that let his message go right over your head.

It’s ok, maybe give it another rewatch and pay attention this time.

And well, the show being about a dangerous egomaniac believer who mistakes a vampire for an angel and imposes his beliefs on a whole community, the "parabole" seems very clear to me and I don't see how anyone could read that as an invitation for empathy and acceptance, no matter what the director did or say before or after.

Yep, because you can’t grasp an obvious point from the writer, it must be what you wanted it to be.

Comical.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Mr Jiggyfly, post: 180464718, member: 15595"]A long winded, nonsensical rant just to be wrong - cool.

You looked about as hard as you did trying to understand Flannagan’s message I suppose?



https://screenrant.com/midnight-mass-show-meaning-plot-mike-flanagan/

His message is quite clear if you are actually you know - paying attention beyond the vampires and scary things that let his message go right over your head.

It’s ok, maybe give it another rewatch and pay attention this time.



Yep, because you can’t grasp an obvious point from the writer, it must be what you wanted it to be.

Comical.

My beliefs are that you are a little slow and based your reading of the show on a single-lined quote and not on the actual material. I guess the show didn't succeed in teaching you to accept my beliefs.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

My beliefs are that you are a little slow and based your reading of the show on a single-lined quote and not on the actual material. I guess the show didn't succeed in teaching you to accept my beliefs.

I’m sorry it’s such a mighty struggle for you to connect the dots with a message that was so easy to understand.

Maybe don’t fast fwd to all the scary vampire parts and actually pay attention to the dialogue next time.

Just a friendly suggestion so you don’t embarrass yourself like this again.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

So anybody else thinks Midnight Mass is about being tolerant and empathetic to religious people of all faith and not an obvious criticism of blind faith, imposition of beliefs, and the need for understanding the unexplainable through comforting and simplifying idiocies? (I'm aware that the show ain't as aggressive as I suggest).

Maybe I'm just dumb too.

I’m sorry it’s such a mighty struggle for you to connect the dots with a message that was so easy to understand.

Maybe don’t fast fwd to all the scary vampire parts and actually pay attention to the dialogue next time.

Just a friendly suggestion so you don’t embarrass yourself like this again.

You still haven't said anything about what's in the show. Dialogue? You mean, the whole atheist explanation of what happens when you die vs the selfish crazy catholic propositions, quest for eternal life with no regards for other people? That dialogue? Or when the kid chooses God over his father?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So anybody else thinks Midnight Mass is about being tolerant and empathetic to religious people of all faith and not an obvious criticism of blind faith, imposition of beliefs, and the need for understanding the unexplainable through comforting and simplifying idiocies? (I'm aware that the show ain't as aggressive as I suggest).

Maybe I'm just dumb too.



You still haven't said anything about what's in the show. Dialogue? You mean, the whole atheist explanation of what happens when you die vs the selfish crazy catholic propositions, quest for eternal life with no regards for other people? That dialogue? Or when the kid chooses God over his father?

Well at least now you are finally admitting you didn’t pay attention to Flannagan’s overall message.

We are making progress.

You know more than the writer and producer of what the message of the series is though, right?

Delving into religion, faith, and horror is likely to spark controversy, but the creators of Midnight Mass say they hope the series stands as an honest exploration of questions that people have asked through the ages. “I think it’s possible that people who haven’t seen it will have a knee-jerk reaction that it’s anti-religious, which it isn’t. We’re espousing empathy and moderation as opposed to fanaticism,” Macy says. “The show doesn’t validate or invalidate, or really judge, any individual belief system. What it does show is how they can be revered and corrupted. Human frailty is front and center in the show, but the show itself doesn’t render judgment. It asks questions.”

Say Your Prayers: ‘Midnight Mass’ Is Coming—And You’re Not Ready

Again, sorry the obvious is such a struggle for you to comprehend, but that’s your own issue I’m afraid.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Well at least now you are finally admitting you didn’t pay attention to Flannagan’s overall message.

We are making progress.

You know more than the writer and producer of what the message of the series is though, right?

Say Your Prayers: ‘Midnight Mass’ Is Coming—And You’re Not Ready

Again, sorry the obvious is such a struggle for you to comprehend, but that’s your own issue I’m afraid.

You're still not saying anything about the show itself. Where do they espouse empathy and moderation? You think the portrait they make of catholic faith is not bathed in fanaticism? You think catholic faith isn't judged in all this?

I think this here says a lot more about what happens in the show, but it's not really of much importance either:

“I was shocked, for the first time comprehending what a really strange book it is, [The Bible]. There were so many ideas I’d never heard before in church, and the violence of the Old Testament God is terrifying! Slaughtering babies and drowning the earth! It really struck me that I didn’t know my faith at that point. [...]” - [it might not invalidate it, but that's judging catholic faith]
And also from The New York Times: "Like Riley, Flanagan spent years studying various religions. Ultimately, the books that most spoke to him espoused atheism, rationalism and science — books by Samuel Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Carl Sagan. “I had more of a spiritual reaction from reading ‘Pale Blue Dot’ than I ever had reading the Bible,”" - [that's judging catholic faith]

As for knowing more than the writer and producer (and even though I think that quote you use has for only purpose to appease the masses) ... I'll invite you to read Barthes' La mort de l'auteur. Because yeah, the "message" is not in the author, it's in the text. So what about that text?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You're still not saying anything about the show itself. Where do they espouse empathy and moderation? You think the portrait they make of catholic faith is not bathed in fanaticism? You think catholic faith isn't judged in all this?

I think this here says a lot more about what happens in the show, but it's not really of much importance either:

“I was shocked, for the first time comprehending what a really strange book it is, [The Bible]. There were so many ideas I’d never heard before in church, and the violence of the Old Testament God is terrifying! Slaughtering babies and drowning the earth! It really struck me that I didn’t know my faith at that point. [...]” - [it might not invalidate it, but that's judging catholic faith]
And also from The New York Times: "Like Riley, Flanagan spent years studying various religions. Ultimately, the books that most spoke to him espoused atheism, rationalism and science — books by Samuel Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Carl Sagan. “I had more of a spiritual reaction from reading ‘Pale Blue Dot’ than I ever had reading the Bible,”" - [that's judging catholic faith]

As for knowing more than the writer and producer (and even though I think that quote you use has for only purpose to appease the masses) ... I'll invite you to read Barthes' La mort de l'auteur. Because yeah, the "message" is not in the author, it's in the text. So what about that text?

The smartest guy in the room act isn’t working too well for you here boss, sorry. In fact, it’s betraying you, but let’s do this any way.

There are dozens of scenes throughout the series that emphasizes the message they were driving home:

- the town hall with Sheriff Hassan being shot down when trying to explain his beliefs and the sympathetic look given to him by Erin.

- Sheriff Hassan allowing his son to attend a Catholic mass, even though it went agt his promise to his wife.

- Erin and Riley attentively listening to the other explain their beliefs about life after death.

- Ann’s speech to Bev before her death was the most powerful moment in the series and laid out exactly what Flanagan was trying to tell us.

And the dangers of fanaticism and not tolerating others beliefs is exactly the point they were driving home.

It’s literally the entire point of the series and you somehow missed it.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

The smartest guy in the room act isn’t working too well for you here boss, sorry.

There are dozens of scenes throughout the series that emphasizes the message they were driving home:

- the town hall with Sheriff Hassan being shot down when trying to explain his beliefs and the sympathetic look given to him by Erin.

- Sheriff Hassan allowing his son to attend a Catholic mass, even though it went agt his promise to his wife.

- Erin and Riley attentively listening to the other explain their beliefs about life after death.

- Ann’s speech to Bev before her death was the most powerful moment in the series and laid out exactly what Flanagan was trying to tell us.

And the dangers of fanaticism and not tolerating others beliefs is exactly the point they were driving home.

It’s literally the entire point of the series and you somehow missed it.

Discussing with someone who needs to add to each of his posts that he is right isn't much fun (inferiority complex?), but thanks for the few examples at last. So in my understanding of the events:

- Sheriff Hassan allowing his son to attend a Catholic mass, even though it went agt his promise to his wife.
How does this turns out for him? The series makes him right to have done so?

- Erin and Riley attentively listening to the other explain their beliefs about life after death.
And doesn't Riley narrates her own death in synch with Riley's atheist account of what death would be like?

- the town hall with Sheriff Hassan being shot down when trying to explain his beliefs and the sympathetic look given to him by Erin.
Yes, sympathetic look given by one of the few people who doubted or will end up doubting their faith - that much I agree with you, the two characters presented as atheists or ex-atheists in doubt are very much open and empathetic to other people's beliefs. If your reading of the show is that we should be more like them, I agree with you 100%.

- Ann’s speech to Bev before her death was the most powerful moment in the series and laid out exactly what Flanagan was trying to tell us.
I think Riley's account of death was the most powerful moment in the series, and I'll admit I didn't remember that exact dialogue, but I went back to it and yeah, I guess you can read that as "Your faith ain't better than anyone else's faith", but Ann ain't really empathetic and opened to Bev's beliefs at this point.

In fact, I think that the proposition "the dangers of fanaticism and not tolerating others beliefs" is an aporia. Fanaticism is based on a set of beliefs, the dangers of it can hardly coexist with the dangers of not tolerating it. It's an impasse.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Discussing with someone who needs to add to each of his posts that he is right isn't much fun (inferiority complex?), but thanks for the few examples at last. So in my understanding of the events:

- Sheriff Hassan allowing his son to attend a Catholic mass, even though it went agt his promise to his wife.
How does this turns out for him? The series makes him right to have done so?

- Erin and Riley attentively listening to the other explain their beliefs about life after death.
And doesn't Riley narrates her own death in synch with Riley's atheist account of what death would be like?

- the town hall with Sheriff Hassan being shot down when trying to explain his beliefs and the sympathetic look given to him by Erin.
Yes, sympathetic look given by one of the few people who doubted or will end up doubting their faith - that much I agree with you, the two characters presented as atheists or ex-atheists in doubt are very much open and empathetic to other people's beliefs. If your reading of the show is that we should be more like them, I agree with you 100%.

- Ann’s speech to Bev before her death was the most powerful moment in the series and laid out exactly what Flanagan was trying to tell us.
I think Riley's account of death was the most powerful moment in the series, and I'll admit I didn't remember that exact dialogue, but I went back to it and yeah, I guess you can read that as "Your faith ain't better than anyone else's faith", but Ann ain't really empathetic and opened to Bev's beliefs at this point.

In fact, I think that the proposition "the dangers of fanaticism and not tolerating others beliefs" is an aporia. Fanaticism is based on a set of beliefs, the dangers of it can hardly coexist with the dangers of not tolerating it. It's an impasse.

The guy calling someone else “slow” because he doesn’t like his smartest guy in the room act to fall flat, is complaining about this discussion not being fun?

Odd.

You have to be told you are wrong over and over again because you simply don’t want to backtrack and admit you misjudged the intentions of the series.

“Nah, can’t be this, can’t be that, because I know better!”

No evidence is good enough for you, including the words of both the writer and producer. You of course have dug in your heels so deep, that you know better than they do what the message was.

Again, sorry this series straight fwd and easy to understand message is so confusing for you.

You are the only individual I’ve discussed this series with, that couldn’t understand the message. I find that strange, but there are always going to be outliers of course.

It’s a shame the lesson Flanagan was trying to get across went right over your head, as I find it to be quite a relevant message.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

The guy calling someone else “slow” because he doesn’t like his smartest guy in the room act to fall flat, is complaining about this discussion not being fun?

Odd.

You have to be told you are wrong over and over again because you simply don’t want to backtrack and admit you misjudged the intentions of the series.

“Nah, can’t be this, can’t be that, because I know better!”

No evidence is good enough for you, including the words of both the writer and producer. You of course have dug in your heels so deep, that you know better than they do what the message was.

Again, sorry this series straight fwd and easy to understand message is so confusing for you.

You are the only individual I’ve discussed this series with, that couldn’t understand the message. I find that strange, but there are always going to be outliers of course.

It’s a shame the lesson Flanagan was trying to get across went right over your head, as I find it to be quite a relevant message.

Yeah, I'm sorry I said you were a little slow. I rarely think I'm the smartest guy in the room anymore, sometimes it's just hard not to. Maybe you're right, maybe I completely missed the point - it might have happened a lot more than I realize, but then again, you clearly aren't able to discuss the show itself and just hide behind comments made about it.

I happen to think meaning is in the text, and I happen to think the show doesn't do what you propose it does. I answered to your examples (and no, they are not "evidence"), I didn't answer "I know better", you're the one who clearly know better here, and you have quotes and friends to prove it, no need to counter my arguments - anyway it's pretty clear you can't argue anything of what you understood through what's in the show.

I think the show makes a clear link between the catholic cult and vampirism, something that - in my opinion - doesn't equate to acceptance or empathy.

"The thing about Catholicism isn't that the bread and wine represent the body and blood of Christ or are a stand-in for the body and blood of Jesus," Flanagan muses as he thinks back on this topic, "it's that they physically transform into flesh and blood supernaturally on the altar. And that is how you achieve eternal life. The fact that this hasn't been explicitly linked to vampirism surprises me. You're dealing with a mythology that is steeped in blood ritual and resurrection."

Turns out Flanagan isn't totally right and I'm sure he knows it:

"This supposed frequency of resurrection can only undermine the uniqueness of the one by which mankind purchased forgiveness of sins. And there is no cult or religion before or since, from Osiris to vampirism to voodoo, that does not rely on some innate belief in the "undead.""

Christopher Hitchens of all people. God Is Not Great. I'm glad you felt empathy and acceptance, I still think it's cognitive dissonance (the kind of words that makes me the smartest guy in the room, I guess).

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah, I'm sorry I said you were a little slow. I rarely think I'm the smartest guy in the room anymore, sometimes it's just hard not to. Maybe you're right, maybe I completely missed the point - it might have happened a lot more than I realize, but then again, you clearly aren't able to discuss the show itself and just hide behind comments made about it.

I happen to think meaning is in the text, and I happen to think the show doesn't do what you propose it does. I answered to your examples (and no, they are not "evidence"), I didn't answer "I know better", you're the one who clearly know better here, and you have quotes and friends to prove it, no need to counter my arguments - anyway it's pretty clear you can't argue anything of what you understood through what's in the show.

I think the show makes a clear link between the catholic cult and vampirism, something that - in my opinion - doesn't equate to acceptance or empathy.

"The thing about Catholicism isn't that the bread and wine represent the body and blood of Christ or are a stand-in for the body and blood of Jesus," Flanagan muses as he thinks back on this topic, "it's that they physically transform into flesh and blood supernaturally on the altar. And that is how you achieve eternal life. The fact that this hasn't been explicitly linked to vampirism surprises me. You're dealing with a mythology that is steeped in blood ritual and resurrection."

Turns out Flanagan isn't totally right and I'm sure he knows it:

"This supposed frequency of resurrection can only undermine the uniqueness of the one by which mankind purchased forgiveness of sins. And there is no cult or religion before or since, from Osiris to vampirism to voodoo, that does not rely on some innate belief in the "undead.""

Christopher Hitchens of all people. God Is Not Great. I'm glad you felt empathy and acceptance, I still think it's cognitive dissonance (the kind of words that makes me the smartest guy in the room, I guess).

I didn’t hide behind any comments my man.

I know the silly agenda you are pushing here, but I rarely ever read anything about a movie or series before I watch it - especially the writers comments as that can ruin the experience knowing ahead of time.

I easily got their message a few episodes in - it honestly wasn’t some subtle or hidden meaning.

It was on their sleeve and simple to figure out.

The examples I gave were about as clear cut as it gets in this series.

Just because you didn’t understand them, doesn’t mean the writer/producer somehow failed or had another secret message - they literally told you what it was.

Ultimately, you way overthought the message behind this series.

 

[beowulf]

Season 2 of Another Life is up today

 

[beowulf]

 

[chicagoskycam]

Not on Netflix but on Hulu, I've been watching Devs and it was excellent. 1 season only.

 

[KapG]

Anyone watch the forgotten battle yet? Any good?

 

[beowulf]

Anyone watch the forgotten battle yet? Any good?

Started last night but ended up having to do something. The first 20 minutes are ok, based on real events etc. It's a mix if English and I think dubbed over Dutch. There are subtitles for Dutch signs etc that appear on the screen at points. I think it was a Dutch/Belgian/Latvian production.

 

[KapG]

Started last night but ended up having to do something. The first 20 minutes are ok, based on real events etc. It's a mix if English and I think dubbed over Dutch. There are subtitles for Dutch signs etc that appear on the screen at points. I think it was a Dutch/Belgian/Latvian production.

Ok thanks for that. Maybe I’ll check it out tomorrow!

 

[beowulf]

Ok thanks for that. Maybe I’ll check it out tomorrow!

If you are at all a war movie buff you'll probably like it, it's about the battle of Scheldt and as a Canadian might make you proud if they follow history it was a battle led by the Canadians to open the waterway to allow ally ships to reach Antwerp, that the allies just liberated, to resupply them.

 

[KapG]

If you are at all a war movie buff you'll probably like it, it's about the battle of Scheldt and as a Canadian might make you proud if they follow history it was a battle led by the Canadians to open the waterway to allow ally ships to reach Antwerp, that the allies just liberated, to resupply them.

Was a pretty solid effort and one of the better “Netflix” movies I have seen in a while. had fun watching it and it kept my attention. Pretty gritty stuff. Wasn’t much sugar coating going on.

kind of interesting seeing all the story lines intertwine as well, even if it’s not something entirely new when it comes to story telling.

 

[beowulf]

Not sure if this was needed but I guess the first one was a hit so....

 

[kihei]

First episode of the Colin Kaepernick mini-series was excellent. Wasn't expecting the approach it took at all. Looking forward to the rest of the episodes.