Ncaa Vs Chl

[MN_Gopher]

The 98-99 gophes were led and recruted by Woog. Look at the names associated with Lucia. Vanek, Ballard, Martin, Leopold, Taffe, Hauser, Pohl, Potulny, Riddle, Koalska, Tallackson, Harrington, Taylor, Guyer, DeMarchi all guys who are going to play in the NHL or AHL. Pohl and Hauser have allready established themselves in the AHL with 100 points or a 1.94 GAA and 7 SO. Taffe(in between), Martin and Leopold in the NHL. Potulny, Irman, Erickson when he was here were 3rd round draft choices, Tallackson a second. Future gophers Wheeler, Chucko and Goligowski also top choices. Lets compare those guys in a few years.

 

[Lard_Lad]

Golden Gophers grads almost all go directly to the AHL or NHL. Can the Greyhounds or Saginaw Spirit claim the same?

An easy enough statement to check. Here's everybody who played at least 10 games (5 for goalies) for Minnesota and Sault Ste. Marie between 96-97 and 99-00 (the earliest Gopher team on which all players have graduated), and what league they spent most of their rookie year in. If they played a lot in two different leagues, I used the higher league. "Out" means there's no record in hockeydb after his last college/junior season, presumably meaning he never played pro.

Minnesota:
Mike Crowley - AHL
Ryan Kraft - ECHL
Casey Hankinson - AHL
Dave Spehar - out
Reggie Berg - ECHL
Brian LaFleur - ECHL
Wyatt Smith - AHL
Erik Rasmussen - NHL
Mike Anderson - out
Ben Clymer - NHL (via WHL)
Dan Woog - out
Dan Hendrickson - ECHL
Bill Kohn - ECHL
Nick Checco - ECHL
Brett Abrahamson - ECHL
Jason Godbout - out
Rico Pagel - out
Brent Godbout - out
Cory Miller - out
Steve Debus - ECHL
Erik Day - out
Ryan Trebil - out
Erik Westrum - AHL
Nate Miller - AHL
Mike Lyons - out
Aaron Miskovich - UHL
Dylan Mills - UHL
Stuart Senden - out
Matt Leimbeck - out
Doug Meyer - out
Brad Timmons - out
Rob LaRue - out
Adam Hauser - ECHL
Pete Samargia - UHL

34 players total:
NHL - 2 (5.9%)
AHL - 5 (15.7%)
ECHL - 9 (26.5%)
UHL - 3 (8.8%)
---
pro total - 19 (55.9%)
out - 15 (44.1%)

Sault Ste. Marie:
Joe Thornton - NHL
Richard Uniacke - WPHL
Joe Seroski - ECHL
Ben Schust - ECHL
Matt Lahey - ECHL
Peter Cava - ECHL
Chad Spurr - CHL
Richard Jackman - IHL
Trevor Tokarczyk - UHL
Brian Stewart - CIAU
Nathan Perrott - IHL
Justin Davis - CIAU
Nick Robinson - CIAU
Marc Moro - AHL
Blaine Fitzpatrick - ECHL
Wes Booker - CIAU
Liam MacEachern - CIAU
Robert Mulick - AHL
Chad Woollard - ECHL
Daniel Passero - CHL
David Wight - CIAU
Aaron MacInnis - CIAU
Oak Hewer - ECHL
Bill Browne - CIAU
Jake McCracken - out
John Dickie - out
Michal Podolka - CHL
Ryan Jardine - AHL
Todd Miller - WPHL
Martin Galik - ECHL
Bryan Duce - ECHL
John Osborne - out
Scott Behrens - out
Nick Jones - ECHL
Scott Page - ECHL
Tim Zafiris - out
Josh Bennett - ECHL
Chris Biagini - CIAU
Peter Bohunicky - Czech Republic
Cory Pecker - AHL
Nick Grady - CIAU
Jake Gibson - CIAU
Robert Zago - out
Terry Joss - out
Matt Osborne - CIAU
Chad Cavanagh - CIAU
Josef Vasicek - NHL
Adam Nittel - AHL
Shawn Snider - CIS
Ryan Healy - out
Jouni Kuokkanen - CIAU
Cleon Smith - CIS
Paul Ballantyne - ECHL
Mike Nelson - ECHL
Darren Strilchuk - UHL
Derek Fox - CIS
Jason Flick - CIAU
Trevor Daley - NHL
Jeff Richards - CIS
Ryan Milanovic - out
Malcolm MacMillan - ECHL
Brent Theobald - CIS
Rob Chapman - out
Vaclav Zavoral - UHL
Ray Emery - AHL

65 players total:
NHL - 3 (4.6%)
AHL - 6 (9.2%)
IHL - 2 (3.1%)
ECHL - 15 (23.1%)
CHL - 3 (4.6%)
UHL - 3 (4.6%)
WPHL - 2 (3.1%)
Czech league - 1 (1.5%)
---
pro total - 35 (53.8%)
CIS/CIAU - 20 (30.8%)
out - 10 (15.4%)

Looks pretty even to me. Nowhere near "almost all" of the Minnesota grads go directly to the NHL or AHL - more like one in five; for the Greyhounds it's one in six. Only a little more than half on either team move on to any level of pro hockey.

 

[MN_Gopher]

NCAA and late juniors guys have a disadvantage IMO. They can go to the AHL. Where a drafted junior has to play junior or NHL. So later in their careers.
Wyatt Smith played 83 NHL games, 18 last year.
Mike Crowley played in 67 NHL games.
Casey Hankinson 18 NHL games 5 last year
Erik Westrum 15 NHL games last year.
Ryan Kraft got in 7 NHL games and a solid AHL career.
Adam Hauser had 1.94 GAA 20 W and 7 SO in the AHL last year and is signed with LA this year.
So it would be nice to figure that into the equation too. Yes Jackman, Perrot and Moro made it from the junior team. Although Perrot 63 games 6 points 195 pim, Moro 30 games 0 points 77 PIM, more of tough guys who probally had to "fight" their way into the NHL. Jackman has a nice line though.
And as far as top end talent goes it is a toss up between Rasmussen and Thornton.

 

[VOB]

An easy enough statement to check.
34 players total:
NHL - 2 (5.9%)
AHL - 5 (15.7%)
ECHL - 9 (26.5%)
UHL - 3 (8.8%)
---
pro total - 19 (55.9%)
out - 15 (44.1%)


65 players total:
NHL - 3 (4.6%)
AHL - 6 (9.2%)
IHL - 2 (3.1%)
ECHL - 15 (23.1%)
CHL - 3 (4.6%)
UHL - 3 (4.6%)
WPHL - 2 (3.1%)
Czech league - 1 (1.5%)
---
pro total - 35 (53.8%)
CIS/CIAU - 20 (30.8%)
out - 10 (15.4%)

Looks pretty even to me. Nowhere near "almost all" of the Minnesota grads go directly to the NHL or AHL - more like one in five; for the Greyhounds it's one in six. Only a little more than half on either team move on to any level of pro hockey.

Very nice work LardLad, I hope that "eye" keys in on that 30% number of former Hounds who went on to play college hockey because it sure does refute his "study" showing only 10% of former CHLers use their scholarship money.

 

[eye]

Keep it a little more current folks. Check out the last 3 years and my findings are correct. Almost all GG grads in the last 3 years have gone directly to the AHL or NHL. How many Greyhounds and Spirit players have made the AHL or NHL in the last 3 years? How many of the 30% which is a debatable figure if you keep it current had to pay a good chunk of their own education expenses like room and board that only 1st rounders usually get and we know that most 1st rounders almost always end up in the pros so the CHL rarely have to fork out a full ride education package. Many of the players you use in your 30% went to college or University on their own coin as education packages are still relatively new in the CHL and lastly my understanding is that players are lucky to get half their education expenses covered through these so called CHL full tuition and books offers. There are many conditions that players must meet and we all know how playing pro at any level makes the CHL education offer null and void.

 

[eye]

This is perhaps one of the most misinformed posts you have yet made eyes. When have you ever been to Saginaw and what specific game have you seen? I have been to both Madison and Saginaw and let me tell you FLAT OUT that the Saginaw fans are everybit as rabid as those in Wisconsin. As for coaching, yes Saginaw has made some changes but so what. Mancini will be a great G.M and as for Eaves in Wisconsin (who by the way was only hired two years ago), I am sure Leavitt (you know the player Eaves physically assualted and cost the universtiy over $50 000 to settle!!!!) would have a totally different view of the great coaching staff in Madison.
Look it, I am not saying that Eaves is a bad coach, but spare me your rhetoric on the superior coaching found in the NCAA because it is simply not true.

Your comment on how all Gophs go on to the NHL/AHL shows that you have not adequatly taken the time to really review this topic before wading in with your comments. If we take a look at the 1998-99 Goph squad (this goes back far enough to see who are legit prospects and are not), several players failed to advance as far as you claim. In fact 18 players on that team either played in the ECHL/UHL/CHL or did not go pro. That is a far cry from "Golden Gophers grads almost all go directly to the AHL or NHL."

Like I said keep it current. Check out the last 3 years. As for Eves - Gold medal winning coach with mostly NCAA players. I went to see Saginaw - Plymouth game and there were over 4000 fans. Nice building but the fans were far from being into the game. VOB, you have a lot of hockey knowledge but I find it very difficult that you could be this one sided considering you claim you went to LSSU and are an American. American hockey fans are generally alot more loyal and passionate about NCAA hockey so I still have to think you either work for the Sault or you got cut by an NCAA team or just never got the scholarship you thought you deserved because your posts are always so one sided. At least I acknowledge many of the good things about the CHL and it's track record but you go to any end to put down the NCAA game which IMO when you get 2 top teams is obviously more entertaining and fan friendly. I have not found anything close to the atmosphere and excitement I have seen at Michigan, Wisconsin, Minny and many other NCAA rinks in the CHL. I am a Canadian that has lived on both sides of the border and I am a passionate but realistic hockey fan more committed to the game than to any one team although I confess I have been a Coyotes fan since they left Manitoba.

 

[MikeC44]

Keep it a little more current folks. Check out the last 3 years and my findings are correct. Almost all GG grads in the last 3 years have gone directly to the AHL or NHL. How many Greyhounds and Spirit players have made the AHL or NHL in the last 3 years? How many of the 30% which is a debatable figure if you keep it current had to pay a good chunk of their own education expenses like room and board that only 1st rounders usually get and we know that most 1st rounders almost always end up in the pros so the CHL rarely have to fork out a full ride education package. Many of the players you use in your 30% went to college or University on their own coin as education packages are still relatively new in the CHL and lastly my understanding is that players are lucky to get half their education expenses covered through these so called CHL full tuition and books offers. There are many conditions that players must meet and we all know how playing pro at any level makes the CHL education offer null and void.

So not true!

A graduating CHL only loses their scholarship money if they sign an NHL or AHL contract. They're actually allowed to play 1 year in the low level minors (ECHL or lower) without losing thier education money. If you sign an NHL contract, I'm pretty sure your signing bonus would cover any education costs you made need in your life.
Another thing you have to include is the money the Universities (legally or not) give to the players on top of their CHL money and any money their junior team gave them.

Here's a quick little article regarding CHLers in the CIS: http://www.chl.ca/CHLCIS/home.html

 

[eye]

So not true!

A graduating CHL only loses their scholarship money if they sign an NHL or AHL contract. They're actually allowed to play 1 year in the low level minors (ECHL or lower) without losing thier education money. If you sign an NHL contract, I'm pretty sure your signing bonus would cover any education costs you made need in your life.
Another thing you have to include is the money the Universities (legally or not) give to the players on top of their CHL money and any money their junior team gave them.

Here's a quick little article regarding CHLers in the CIS: http://www.chl.ca/CHLCIS/home.html

Thanks mikeC44 for providing the link. My understanding is the conditions and the criteria is different in all 3 CHL leagues. This article is posted on the league website so like any stats it is slanted and carefully worded like the statement "last year the CHL made 2 million dollars available for education expenses". That's about $37,000 per CHL team, not a lot of money and only equivalent to about 1 1/2 full rides at most NCAA schools. Then divide the total amount of players by the money allocated in the article and it's about $6,000 per player per year. By U.S. education standards that's not a lot of money. Nothing to sneeze at but not as impressive as the article portrays.

 

[fan mao rong]

OK,now, I only read the 1st page and then skipped ahead. What I think was the original premise, that some players in CHL should have been drafted (Martin St. Pierre, Nathan Robinson, and maybe some other player I don't recall) over NCAA players. To test this theory let's examine the professional careers of Robinson and/or the prospective career of St. Pierre to see if they are really such a good bet. I don't consider being drafted as such an award to a deserving player, but the NHL team should consider that player worthwhile to have a good chance of success at that level. Robinson, to my recollection , has been a professional for a couple of years or so. I believe the concensus is that he has not been an overwhelming success. He should be at about the age where he would be graduating college, had he gone that route. His play henceforth will test your theory. St. Pierre, after the year he turned 18, tryed out with Philadelphia. He was probably observed through his career. Now he can be signed as well. If St. Pierre is a good top league player, your theory holds water. If they can just be average or below players they need not have been drafted as those types are available by other means.

 

[eye]

OK,now, I only read the 1st page and then skipped ahead. What I think was the original premise, that some players in CHL should have been drafted (Martin St. Pierre, Nathan Robinson, and maybe some other player I don't recall) over NCAA players. To test this theory let's examine the professional careers of Robinson and/or the prospective career of St. Pierre to see if they are really such a good bet. I don't consider being drafted as such an award to a deserving player, but the NHL team should consider that player worthwhile to have a good chance of success at that level. Robinson, to my recollection , has been a professional for a couple of years or so. I believe the concensus is that he has not been an overwhelming success. He should be at about the age where he would be graduating college, had he gone that route. His play henceforth will test your theory. St. Pierre, after the year he turned 18, tryed out with Philadelphia. He was probably observed through his career. Now he can be signed as well. If St. Pierre is a good top league player, your theory holds water. If they can just be average or below players they need not have been drafted as those types are available by other means.

\

That's about as confusing as your username!

 

[MikeC44]

Thanks mikeC44 for providing the link. My understanding is the conditions and the criteria is different in all 3 CHL leagues. This article is posted on the league website so like any stats it is slanted and carefully worded like the statement "last year the CHL made 2 million dollars available for education expenses". That's about $37,000 per CHL team, not a lot of money and only equivalent to about 1 1/2 full rides at most NCAA schools. Then divide the total amount of players by the money allocated in the article and it's about $6,000 per player per year. By U.S. education standards that's not a lot of money. Nothing to sneeze at but not as impressive as the article portrays.

I agree.

They did just give some blanket statistics without much detail. For instance, they say 320 former CHLers played, but they included guys like Martin Gascon, who only played 1 game in the QMJHL and obviously wouldn't qualify for any CHL money.

They also don't include any money individual teams may give out to players. Some teams don't give any, but a team like the Halifax Mooseheads matches the league contribution, so you could walk into university with $20K.

Another thing is the difference between the cost of attending university in the US and Canada. According the StatsCan, the average tuition cost in Canada for an undergrad is $4025 (http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030812/d030812a.htm). If $37000 is only 1.5 scholarships in the US, than it looks like a full ride is about $25000. Quite a difference.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I like the number stat. 5.9% NHL and 15.9% Ahl. Kraft and Hauser started off in ECHL and made their way up. With Hauser coming this year. So with those 2 guys factored in as AHL or NHL thats about 25%. And that when the gophs were terrible by their standards. You took the worst years in program history to make a point. Look a bit back and see Hendrickson, Pitlick, Zmolek, Broten, Snuggerud, Johnson, Stauber, Bonin, Trebil, Chorske, Millen, Nielsen, Dziedic, McAlpine, Klatt, Hankinson, Berland, Pederson, Thats going back year to 86-87 season and doing those ten years, the mentioned playes i beileve all played 100 or more NHL games. Thats 18 in ten years. So i figured that if by ur numbers 34 graduated in 4 years then 80 or so probally came through the U of M from 86-87 to 95-96. Thats 22.5 % of those players went on to play 100 or more NHL games. Not to shabby when u look at the gophers good years. And in 5 years we will have more than half in the AHL/NHL from our first championship years on down.

 

[Lard_Lad]

I like the number stat. 5.9% NHL and 15.9% Ahl. Kraft and Hauser started off in ECHL and made their way up. With Hauser coming this year. So with those 2 guys factored in as AHL or NHL thats about 25%.

The Greyhounds had players move up from the ECHL to the AHL as well. I counted the same way for both teams.

You took the worst years in program history to make a point. Look a bit back and see Hendrickson, Pitlick, Zmolek, Broten, Snuggerud, Johnson, Stauber, Bonin, Trebil, Chorske, Millen, Nielsen, Dziedic, McAlpine, Klatt, Hankinson, Berland, Pederson, Thats going back year to 86-87 season and doing those ten years, the mentioned playes i beileve all played 100 or more NHL games. Thats 18 in ten years.

Stauber, Bonin, Trebil, and Hankinson didn't play 100 NHL games, and the Sault produced about a dozen 100+ game guys in the same time period. Not quite as many, but their list includes guys like Thornton and Adam Foote, so I'd say it balances out quality-wise.

Bottom line, the available evidence suggest that a good NCAA program is producing slightly more pro prospects than an average OHL one. I'd say that indicates the quality of play in each league is very comparable, regardless of how much either side wants to believe theirs is much better.

 

[stockwizard*]

Hey American kids out there.

Just remember the greatest players to ever play the game all played in the CHL. It is the quickest route to the NHL and has the best top end talent of any league with 16-20 year olds in the world. Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, and now Crosby. The list goes on and on.

In Canada if you are 16 years old and playing CHL hockey you are considered a stud. The women adore you.

You want to be a man and control your own destiny? Come to the CHL.

 

[stockwizard*]

It should be noted there are 60 NCAA schools and you are using the top one as an example! Try using one of the bottom ranked teams out of the 60 schools.

 

[VOB]

Well it is time once again to debunk the myths propogated by eyes. Let us start with the educational packages provided by the OHL first. Eyes originally claimed that only 10% of CHL players use their education money. Once again eyes was wrong and when presented with evidence to the contrary, eyes responded by saying that while it may be true that more CHL players took advantage of their education scholarships, those scholarships came with so many strings attached that these packages become null and void by just playing in a pro game. Wrong yet again eyes!
Eyes was politely told that one could indeed play pro hockey (at the ECHL and below) and still keep the scholarship package (something incedently NCAA players cannot do!) so eyes responds by saying "well it isn't much that they are spending anyway!"

There is something eyes needs to understand. First off, he is correct in that only first rounders receive full tuition, residency and books while all others receive just tuition and books but CIS schools often make up the difference. As a result the vast majority of CIS players who were former CHLers are on full rides. That is not something that NCAA players can say as about only half of college players are receiving full ride scholarships. In the end, the CHLer in the CIS is just as good off (if not better) than his NCAA counterpart! This is certainly a far far cry from eyes previous statement of "MY STUDIES HAVE SHOW THAT ONLY 10% OF CHL PLAYERS EVER USE THEIR MONEY " Nothing could be further from the truth!

Now we come to eyes statement that recent Gophs grads have all gone on to the AHL/NHL. Well going back three seasons, as eyes is imploring us to do, takes us to the 2000-2001 roster (You cannot count this year's roster since none of the graduates has yet to play a pro game). From the 2000-01 roster to the 2000-03 roster (this includes their championship team) the following players made their entrance into the pro world in the following leagues:
Aaron Miskovich - Quad City Mallards - UHL
Dylan Mills - Quad City Mallards - UHL
Pat O'Leary - Kalamazoo Wings - UHL
Nick Angell - Rockford Ice Hogs - UHL
Erik Wendell- Rockford Ice Hogs - UHL
Adam Hauser - Jackson Bandits -UHL

Players who have made it to the AHL/NHL
Erik Westrum - AHL
Jordon Leopold - NHL
John Pohl - AHL
Jeff Tafe- AHL/NHL
Paul Martin - NHL
Matt Demarhi - AHL

As anyone can plainly see, only half of the Gophs grads made it to the AHL/NHL!!

Yes it is true that I graduated from LSSU but I also received my Graduate degree from MSU and I yes I still live in Michigan. For the last time eyes, I do not work for the Greyhounds!

Eyes then implies that I must be an unpatriotic American because I prefer the CHL game over the NCAA one! He then states that I am anti NCAA! Show me one post where I say the NCAA is a poor brand of hockey eyes!

You want to know how can I claim that the CHL game is better than watching say a Michigan-Minnesota game. Well eyes not all CHL games are as good as such a match up but I can tell you that the intensity I saw played between the Missassauga Ice Dogs and the Guelph Storm matched any game that I saw in the NCAA this year. Is a Michigan-Goph game more exciting than say a Greyhounds-Wolves game? For the most part yes but what about a Michigan-Bowling Green eyes? Or how about a LSSU-Bowling Green game eyes? NOT A CHANCE!!! That is the big difference to me eyes. I can watch just about any OHL team and see some current and great future talent, I cannot say the same about the NCAA!

 

[eye]

Well it is time once again to debunk the myths propogated by eyes. Let us start with the educational packages provided by the OHL first. Eyes originally claimed that only 10% of CHL players use their education money. Once again eyes was wrong and when presented with evidence to the contrary, eyes responded by saying that while it may be true that more CHL players took advantage of their education scholarships, those scholarships came with so many strings attached that these packages become null and void by just playing in a pro game. Wrong yet again eyes!
Eyes was politely told that one could indeed play pro hockey (at the ECHL and below) and still keep the scholarship package (something incedently NCAA players cannot do!) so eyes responds by saying "well it isn't much that they are spending anyway!"

There is something eyes needs to understand. First off, he is correct in that only first rounders receive full tuition, residency and books while all others receive just tuition and books but CIS schools often make up the difference. As a result the vast majority of CIS players who were former CHLers are on full rides. That is not something that NCAA players can say as about only half of college players are receiving full ride scholarships. In the end, the CHLer in the CIS is just as good off (if not better) than his NCAA counterpart! This is certainly a far far cry from eyes previous statement of "MY STUDIES HAVE SHOW THAT ONLY 10% OF CHL PLAYERS EVER USE THEIR MONEY " Nothing could be further from the truth!

Now we come to eyes statement that recent Gophs grads have all gone on to the AHL/NHL. Well going back three seasons, as eyes is imploring us to do, takes us to the 2000-2001 roster (You cannot count this year's roster since none of the graduates has yet to play a pro game). From the 2000-01 roster to the 2000-03 roster (this includes their championship team) the following players made their entrance into the pro world in the following leagues:
Aaron Miskovich - Quad City Mallards - UHL
Dylan Mills - Quad City Mallards - UHL
Pat O'Leary - Kalamazoo Wings - UHL
Nick Angell - Rockford Ice Hogs - UHL
Erik Wendell- Rockford Ice Hogs - UHL
Adam Hauser - Jackson Bandits -UHL

Players who have made it to the AHL/NHL
Erik Westrum - AHL
Jordon Leopold - NHL
John Pohl - AHL
Jeff Tafe- AHL/NHL
Paul Martin - NHL
Matt Demarhi - AHL

As anyone can plainly see, only half of the Gophs grads made it to the AHL/NHL!!

Yes it is true that I graduated from LSSU but I also received my Graduate degree from MSU and I yes I still live in Michigan. For the last time eyes, I do not work for the Greyhounds!

Eyes then implies that I must be an unpatriotic American because I prefer the CHL game over the NCAA one! He then states that I am anti NCAA! Show me one post where I say the NCAA is a poor brand of hockey eyes!

You want to know how can I claim that the CHL game is better than watching say a Michigan-Minnesota game. Well eyes not all CHL games are as good as such a match up but I can tell you that the intensity I saw played between the Missassauga Ice Dogs and the Guelph Storm matched any game that I saw in the NCAA this year. Is a Michigan-Goph game more exciting than say a Greyhounds-Wolves game? For the most part yes but what about a Michigan-Bowling Green eyes? Or how about a LSSU-Bowling Green game eyes? NOT A CHANCE!!! That is the big difference to me eyes. I can watch just about any OHL team and see some current and great future talent, I cannot say the same about the NCAA!

You are like a little kid that needs to have the last say in just about any thread you get involved in. Bull to just about everything you said and claimed. Thanks for twisting every word to try and make others think your so smart. Ice dogs and Guelph please spare me. As usual your posts provide half truths and twisting others words just to have the last say. Now fill your boots. I think you and I are done as there is no reasoning with you, your closed minded and your set in your ways. Bye Bye.

 

[Oilers Chick]

Can you actually post these graduation stats OilersChick?

Rick DiPietro, Danny Heatley, Tanabe, Parise,Tkachuk, Weight, Amonte, Rolston, Kobesew, VanRyn, Parrish....shall I go on?

The BCHL has been holding steady while recruitment from Manitoba and Sasketewen have fallen through the floor!

There may be a large Canadian contigent represented in the NCAA but the unescapable fact is that it is declining and this year represents one of the, if not THE, lowest percentage rate of Canadian kids coming into the NCAA.

Yes, and my apologies for this being late (I do have a life outside of HF).

About a year ago, someone (not from HF) asked me about the NCAA graduation rate of players vs. those who leave early to turn pro or move to the CHL. I did some extensive research as well as updated this around mid-June 2004 and this is what I came up with:

Taking the NHL draft years of 1997-2003 inclusive, this is what I found:

Of the approximately 450 players drafted from the NCAA, 256 of them have left school as of about June 15, 2004.

Of those 256:

183 (or roughly 71%) have graduated

48 (or roughly 19%) left early to turn pro

23 (or roughly 9%) left to go to the CHL

2 (or little less than 1%) left the NCAA reasons having nothing to do with hockey

Of the schools that had the most players drafted, I found that the University of New Hampshire (and not surprisingly) Harvard University had the best graduation rates among all of their prospects. During the 2001-04 graduation periods, UNH had 17 players who were drafted and graduated (100%). Harvard had 18 of 19 graduate during that same period. Among other schools with a large number of draft selections that had very good graduation rates include: Michigan State, Maine and Boston College.

Among the schools with the worst graduation rates, the University of Michigan had the worst. Of the 25 players drafted and eligible to graduate, 6 either left to turn pro early or left for the CHL. Next was the University of North Dakota with 5 of 15 and Boston University with 5 of 20 leaving with at least one year of eligibility remaining.

What the figures above do NOT include are players who gave verbal commitments that never enrolled nor players who would make it to the NHL via free agency having never been drafted.

If you want to see the percentage of ALL NCCA student-athletes (not just Men's Ice Hockey players), I'd suggest checking out the 2003 NCAA Divison I grad rates. The NCAA currently doesn't not have student-athlete grad rates available yet for the graduating class of 2004.

Now another question that I was asked in the past and again here recently was the number of Canadian born players in the NCAA. I extensively researched this as well just after the 2003-04 season got underway and here was what I found.

Taking just the 2003-04 season (since that's the data I have available at the moment):

There were approximately 1,242 Men's Ice Hockey players enrolled in Division I schools.

There are currently 54 NCAA Division I schools that offer Men's Ice Hockey. Of the 54 D-1 institutions, only 3 schools (the Air Force Academy, the US Military Academy at West Point [Army] and Boston College) did not have a single Canadian born player on their roster during the 2003-04 season.

Of the approximately 1,242 NCAA Men's D-I Ice Hockey players, 524 (or roughly 42%) were Canadian born players.

Now breaking down where these players PLAYED prior to coming into the NCAA is as follows by league:

222 (or about 42%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Ontario (such as the OPJHL)

114 (or about 22%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in British Columbia (such as the BCHL)

103 (or about 20%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Alberta (such as the AJHL)

30 (or about 6%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Saskatchewan (such as the SJHL)

18 (or about 3%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Manitoba (such as the MJHL)

8 (or about 2%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Quebec

29 (or about 6%) came from prep/junior leagues based in the United States (such as the USHL).

Also in my findings, I found (not surprisingly) that teams based in the Eastern US (specifically those in the ECAC and Atlantic Hockey conferences) as well as CCHA teams based in the state of Michigan had the greatest number of Canadians from Eastern Canadian leagues/preps on their rosters.

The WCHA and CHA as well as the CCHA teams NOT based in the state of Michigan had the had the greatest number of Canadians from Western Canadian leagues/preps on their rosters.

Amazingly, Hockey East was almost evenly split between eastern and western Canada.

Now while these figures are not an EXACT science (so to speak), it gives you all a rough idea of the grad rates of NCAA drafted players and Canadians playing in the NCAA.

It also backs up my point that I made earlier.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Ahh guy i did say 5 years. So yes there still were O'Leary's and Robergs on that first team. But i can almost gurantee that. Koalska, Riddle, Potluny, Vanek, Ballard, Harrington, Irman, Potluny, Guyer, Tallackson will all play AHL/NHL and look at Hauser LA has signed him. And i bet he plays in the NHL next year. So he played in a lesser league his first year out. Does that make him a bad player, no. If he goes on to be a great goalie(wont happen) but are you going to only go by their first year out. He tore up the AHL last year. Look at the incomers. Wheeler and Chucko most teams dont waste first round picks on guys with no potential. They should make it in that 5 years i stated. And Golowski a second round pick he has no chance in 5 years, right. Thats 14 players. Plus Leopold, Martin, Pohl, Taffe, and DeMarchi who allready made it. I d like to include Westrum but my original statemnt sayed after we won the NCAA, he was allreay gone. As was Mishovich and Mills who did not make the NHL/AHL but they were not in my statement either. Plus Weber left for personal reasons and he was a great goalie too.

 

[stockwizard*]

Of the approximately 1,242 NCAA Men's D-I Ice Hockey players, 524 (or roughly 42%) were Canadian born players.

Now breaking down where these players PLAYED prior to coming into the NCAA is as follows by league:

222 (or about 42%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Ontario (such as the OPJHL)

114 (or about 22%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in British Columbia (such as the BCHL)

103 (or about 20%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Alberta (such as the AJHL)

30 (or about 6%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Saskatchewan (such as the SJHL)

18 (or about 3%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Manitoba (such as the MJHL)

8 (or about 2%) came from prep/junior leagues or high schools based in Quebec

29 (or about 6%) came from prep/junior leagues based in the United States (such as the USHL).

Wow. I am surprise 42% of NCAA players are Canadian. I thought it was a little less. I suppose these guys are mainly the people who weren't good enough to play CHL at the age of 16/17.

 

[VOB]

You are like a little kid that needs to have the last say in just about any thread you get involved in. Bull to just about everything you said and claimed. Thanks for twisting every word to try and make others think your so smart. Ice dogs and Guelph please spare me. As usual your posts provide half truths and twisting others words just to have the last say. Now fill your boots. I think you and I are done as there is no reasoning with you, your closed minded and your set in your ways. Bye Bye.

I just love correcting people like you eyes, thats all. Sorry that I busted up your silly arguements but please don't make this personal

 

[VOB]

Yes, and my apologies for this being late (I do have a life outside of HF).



Of the approximately 450 players drafted from the NCAA, 256 of them have left school as of about June 15, 2004.

Of those 256:

183 (or roughly 71%) have graduated

48 (or roughly 19%) left early to turn pro

23 (or roughly 9%) left to go to the CHL

2 (or little less than 1%) left the NCAA reasons having nothing to do with hockey

Of the schools that had the most players drafted, I found that the University of New Hampshire (and not surprisingly) Harvard University had the best graduation rates among all of their prospects. During the 2001-04 graduation periods, UNH had 17 players who were drafted and graduated (100%). Harvard had 18 of 19 graduate during that same period. Among other schools with a large number of draft selections that had very good graduation rates include: Michigan State, Maine and Boston College.

Among the schools with the worst graduation rates, the University of Michigan had the worst. Of the 25 players drafted and eligible to graduate, 6 either left to turn pro early or left for the CHL. Next was the University of North Dakota with 5 of 15 and Boston University with 5 of 20 leaving with at least one year of eligibility remaining.
.

Thanks for putting in the effort to come up with these stats. I do have some question though. How do you know that those who did not leave early or go to the CHL actually graduated after their four years? Also, what is the percentage of college players in the NHL today that actually stayed in college for the full four years? Please don't take these questions as a refuting your stats or anything like that, but I believe they have to be answered in order to get an accurate picture.

As for the number of Canadians, it is declining and you need to look no further than this site to see that the number of Canadian recruits this year is well below the 40% mark. http://members.aol.com/cheisenber/Recruit04.htm It is a trend that will continue.

 

[Oilers Chick]

Thanks for putting in the effort to come up with these stats. I do have some question though. How do you know that those who did not leave early or go to the CHL actually graduated after their four years? Also, what is the percentage of college players in the NHL today that actually stayed in college for the full four years? Please don't take these questions as a refuting your stats or anything like that, but I believe they have to be answered in order to get an accurate picture.

As for the number of Canadians, it is declining and you need to look no further than this site to see that the number of Canadian recruits this year is well below the 40% mark. http://members.aol.com/cheisenber/Recruit04.htm It is a trend that will continue.

In answer to your first question, I gathered the grad information from a variety of sources such as newspapers (both local and school papers), various college sites (regardless of whether they offer D-1 hockey or not), college hockey publications (such as the USCHO) among others.

In answer to your second question, I honestly don't know off hand because I haven't researched it that far back. I can tell you that there ARE players who do or have continued their (academic) educations AFTER leaving college early. Jeff Jillson and Dany Heatley are two that come to immediate mind.

As for the number of Canadians in the NCAA, I don't have the figures in front of me at the moment, but the incoming freshman class of 2004, includes roughly 140 players from leagues in British Columbia and roughly 125 from leagues in Ontario. Now keep in mind that not all NCAA teams have released their list of incoming freshmen yet. So what I've given here is what is currently available. If you want more exact figures (at the present time of available info), I can get you those later.

 

[VOB]

In answer to your first question, I gathered the grad information from a variety of sources such as newspapers (both local and school papers), various college sites (regardless of whether they offer D-1 hockey or not), college hockey publications (such as the USCHO) among others.

In answer to your second question, I honestly don't know off hand because I haven't researched it that far back. I can tell you that there ARE players who do or have continued their (academic) educations AFTER leaving college early. Jeff Jillson and Dany Heatley are two that come to immediate mind.

As for the number of Canadians in the NCAA, I don't have the figures in front of me at the moment, but the incoming freshman class of 2004, includes roughly 140 players from leagues in British Columbia and roughly 125 from leagues in Ontario. Now keep in mind that not all NCAA teams have released their list of incoming freshmen yet. So what I've given here is what is currently available. If you want more exact figures (at the present time of available info), I can get you those later.

I understand what you are saying but keep in mind that when a press release states that the University of so and so will be losing 5 senior to graduation, this does not mean that they have earned their degrees. John Micheal Lyles is a good example of this. He played four years for M.S.U. but was a couple of classes short of actually earning his degree. I am sure he will complete those classes in due time but you cannot say that he graduated within the four year time period.

Yes many pro players do end up finishing their degrees while they are playing in the NHL or AHL. That included former CHL players as well as NCAA players, however.

I have always maintained that because a players does not choose the NCAA route, it in no way means that he is foresaking his education. I think many pro-NCAA people have a hard time understanding that.


As for the numbers of incoming recruits this year, again refer to the link I have provided. If you crunch the numbers you will find that Canadians represent less than 35% of incoming freshman.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I know that when the gophers started recruting from Canada that the times have changed. We used to only recruit from Minnesota and now have opened up our borders. I think we last had a Canadian in the 70's now we have 2.