Ncaa Vs Chl

[VOB]

MikeC44: Thanks for posting that link. It was very imformative. However, I do have one big question though. With all the monies that these players get, specifically those in the WHL. If they accumulate all this money and don't bother (perhaps changing their minds) to go a college or university at all? Do they still keep the money or pay/give it back? Don't you think that simply "giving" away cash that may never be used for its intended purpose would be a waste and possibly taking away educational funding from someone else who actually DOES want to go to a college/university at some point?

Also, what are some of the specifc rules governing funding the players who do (or at least thinking about) going to a collge or university? I'm not asking about the "you play x number of games/years, you get this much" question here either. I'm asking about what educational commitments are involved (if any)? Does need (family income) play any role in determining who gets how much?

First off the information in that article was a bit dated, even when it was written. Standard OHL packages start off at full tuition, which is based on what the closest university to the player's home would charge. If a prospect is from the metro Toronto area, for instance, the OHL club would determine the tuition payment by factoring in the average tuition prices of schools such as UofT and York. This does create some controversy, however, since tuition for a player from Sudbury would be based on what Luarentian charges, which is less than the tuition from say a York. As a result many players negotiate for better deals but the starting point always begins at the full cost of a university tuition.
First round players are given the full cost of tuition, books and residency while 2nd through 6th round players are given full tuition and books. The rest receive the basic package unless they negotiate a better deal. It is not uncommon to find many third and fourth round picks to have a good year in the Junior A ranks and subsequently command the full education package before signing on with an OHL team.
It is important to note that Canadian Universities also offer partial scholarships. An eighth round player who is only receiving tuition can, and often does, have his residency expenses paid for by his university club.
The money is lost if the player does not choose to attend university or if he signs a pro contract with an NHL/AHL or European club team. CHL players are allowed to sign professional contracts with other minor league teams and can play up to 18 months before forfeiting their scholarship money.
C.I.S. rules are far less restrictive than NCAA ones in terms of armature regulations but similar to the NCAA, Canadian University players must maintain a certain grade point average in order to remain eligible.

 

[eye]

How would you know this if you arn't an employee of the league? There is no posted information other than what is noted in the article provided to you and dated January 2002; i.e.

"The benefits vary slightly from league to league, and teams can sweeten educational benefits on a player-by-player basis.

"Every player who plays in the league will receive no less than two thousand dollars for each year he has played, except if he signs a professional contract," said Baker.

Depending on the round the player was drafted, the money can be used to pay for tuition (sixth round on), tuition and books (second to fifth round), or tuition, books and room and board (first round).

The OHL's required education benefit of $2,000 per year is usually just a starting point. Most players interested in pursuing an education after hockey will negotiate better deals with their OHL team, said Baker.

"We have to make sure that the players that don't make it as a professional hockey player have something to fall back on," he said.

The Quebec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL) has scholarship program, which is actually paid for by the league. However, teams can enter into education agreements with players on an individual basis.

"The teams can have programs too," said Francine Lachance, registrar at the QMJHL. "I know that some teams give scholarships to some players."

Under the scholarship program the league will cover expenses up to $3,500 per year for up to three years of university studies. Or, the league will cover expense of up to $1,500 per year for up to three years for studies at a technical school (college).

To be eligible for a scholarship, a player must play at least two seasons in the QMJHL, including his final year. Following his final year, a player has up to 18 months to finish high school before attending university or college.

A player must attend university on a full-time basis at a Canadian school and must maintain a 75 percent average".

VOB, now you can see where my $1500 figure came from. Okay $2000 minimum for OHL. I will have the contract by Saturday and will post key factors and conditions of the contract.

Where Canadians play in the NCAA was never the issue until you realized you were wrong. You just put your own spin on the figures to at least satisfy your own mind that you were right, unfortunately, you were wrong and still unwilling to admit it. I know this hurts you VOB but just as many Canadians are going south of the border to play NCAA hockey as there ever was. Going by your analogy back in 1966 NHL players only chose to play in the original six and now in 2004 they play on 30 different teams!! That's sarcasm VOB, something that you are awfully good at. If Daly was that good he would have stayed in Dallas when he was given ample opportunity. He got pushed around like a rag doll and made alot of dumb mistakes. I'll take Martin in N.J. anyday and even Ballard will outdo him. Like I said 5 years from now we will revisit this debate. Cheers!

 

[VOB]

Are you back again eye? Back again without anything meaningful to say?

I have presented you with information, links and hard facts, something you have failed to do.

I am still waiting for your "OHL contact" but I am sure I will be waiting for a very long time, won't I eye?!

The bottom line is eye, CHL players are receiving an education, if they want one, after their career in the league is over, and many of them are receiving a free education at that! That is keeping more high end Canadian players home and this can be seen in the drop of incoming Canadians to the NCAA (2004 represented lowest number since 99, as shown on Heisenber's site and the CJHL page). Granted it is only a slight drop but the same cannot be said about the quality, which has declined more sharply. In the 90's, anywhere from 50-60 players from Ontario were recruited by the big four conferences. In 2004, only 33 were recruited to play in the big four. Only four of those players were recruited by elite schools such as Michigan, Maine, Denver and so forth. In 1997 for example, a dozen or so players were recruited by tier 1 schools.

As for Daley, sure eye, talk is cheap! Tell me eye, how many 20 year old Dmen are on the top pairing of an AHL team and received significant playing time in the NHL?!? Yeah he sure played like a real rag doll, thats why Dallas called him up from the AHL and kept him for 27 games and even had him dress for the playoffs as a depth defensemen.

Its apparent you really have nothing else to add to this debate, other than your circular logic (like a dog chasing his tail--numbers aren't down VOB is wrong, numbers aren't down VOB is wrong......round and round the lunatics go eye) and your silly little opinions that you try to pass off as "research".

 

[eye]

Are you back again eye? Back again without anything meaningful to say?

I have presented you with information, links and hard facts, something you have failed to do.

I am still waiting for your "OHL contact" but I am sure I will be waiting for a very long time, won't I eye?!

The bottom line is eye, CHL players are receiving an education, if they want one, after their career in the league is over, and many of them are receiving a free education at that! That is keeping more high end Canadian players home and this can be seen in the drop of incoming Canadians to the NCAA (2004 represented lowest number since 99, as shown on Heisenber's site and the CJHL page). Granted it is only a slight drop but the same cannot be said about the quality, which has declined more sharply. In the 90's, anywhere from 50-60 players from Ontario were recruited by the big four conferences. In 2004, only 33 were recruited to play in the big four. Only four of those players were recruited by elite schools such as Michigan, Maine, Denver and so forth. In 1997 for example, a dozen or so players were recruited by tier 1 schools.

As for Daley, sure eye, talk is cheap! Tell me eye, how many 20 year old Dmen are on the top pairing of an AHL team and received significant playing time in the NHL?!? Yeah he sure played like a real rag doll, thats why Dallas called him up from the AHL and kept him for 27 games and even had him dress for the playoffs as a depth defensemen.

Its apparent you really have nothing else to add to this debate, other than your circular logic (like a dog chasing his tail--numbers aren't down VOB is wrong, numbers aren't down VOB is wrong......round and round the lunatics go eye) and your silly little opinions that you try to pass off as "research".

Oh Master of Deception aka VOB, I am almost done fooling with you. Yanking your chain has been fun but it's effect is dwindling as your arguement loses any substance and is getting very old.

NCAA recruits from Ontario - I'll help you since you seem to be having so much trouble with simple addition.

From Heisenbergs site and by no means is totally accurate or complete but gives us a good idea of trends; Please count and recount only players for each given year before you spout off again.

2004 - 66 so far!
2003 - 67
2002 - 68
2001 - 59
2000 - 65
1999 - 39 oops
1998 - 51
1997 - 51

So show me the % drop off that you had everyone believe was happening and spelled doom and gloom for the NCAA. If anything the trend has improved. Hard facts and no deception or spin for a change VOB.

As far as having contacts and sources when you have played the game you usually have contacts everywhere in hockey. It's a small world among alumni, but I doubt you would have experienced that yourself!

As promised: OHL Standard Player Agreement - too long to retype everything but here are some interesting tidbits. I will say I was impressed by much of what I read but there are many loopholes in this agreement. I will point out a few.

1.05 "The player will be foregoing certain opportunities to obtain athletic scholarhips for post secondary education" - (by signing this agreement)

2.05 "Major Junior career will include a minimum of two credits per school term passed and completed while in high school and a minimum of one college or university course while attending a post secondary institution". (WOW - big emphasis on education!)

4.03 "Fifty dollars per week in each year of the agreement from training camp until the end of the season. (What happens after the season ends?)

4.07 Requires that players "maintain reasonable attendance in school"

Article 5.00 Education Package

a) "Club agrees to contribute _________ Cdn. funds for each completed season TOWARDS the completion of an undergraduate degree, diploma or trade certificate"

b) "Players must be on the clubs roster as of January 10th each season in order to qualify for full entitlement to this agreement"

d) Player must qualify academically and remain academically qualified throughout the period of his enorllment. Short version of the remainder in this para. a player must stay in high school for consecutive years to remain eligible. In other words if a player does not attend school while playing OHL hockey this agreement is null and void

e) Player has 18 months to enroll after concluding his playing career.

f) other grants must be applied prior to this OHL agreement taking force.

g) Players are not allowed to take any leaves of absence except for medical reasons.

5.02 If player signs a professional contract with the NHL, AHL, WHA or for a Europeon team the club is no longer responsible for it's obligations.

Pretty fair agreement but like I said before there are several conditions and I still do not see evidence that the dollars offered come anywhere close to covering full education expenses. The Quebec league doesn't come close and the WHL seems to have the best and fairest program in place. No under the table deals - just a straight forward program that all players get equally and is totally above board. To quote Ted Baker again "Every player who plays in the league will receive no less than two thousand dollars for each year he has played, except if he signs a professional contract," said Baker.

As for Daly, minus 28 last year was not an accident. He has a long long way to go before I see him as a full time NHL'r at 5'10". Give me Martin, Leopold, Ballard and at least 1 or 2 other Golden Gophers D from the past 3 years.

 

[VOB]

Not bad eye, a little bit of an improvement but of course you do realize that the contract you printed is over four years old and there have been slight modifications sicne then and I hope you do realize that this is just the starting point to negotiations and that many players add amendums and changes to make it more favorable to them. Of course it sure doesn't support your claim of most receiving only $1500 per year now does it?

For the last time, I am not employed by any OHL teams but yes, as I said before I do have connections with many teams in the league.

As for your critique, "2.05 "Major Junior career will include a minimum of two credits per school term passed and completed while in high school and a minimum of one college or university course while attending a post secondary institution". (WOW - big emphasis on education!)"

Well this is alot more than what the USHL asks of its players. Many Junior A players, either in Canada or the U.S., take no college classes what so ever while they are playing and many of them have been out of school for one, two and even three years before playing in the NCAA. At least in the O, players are going to school (95% of them are anyway!)


4.03 "Fifty dollars per week in each year of the agreement from training camp until the end of the season. (What happens after the season ends?)

They go home and get a job eye or go to school, on the team's tab of course. We are talking about amatures here eye (forget the NCAA's silly notion of what a pro is) and this 50 dollars is simply spending money during the season.

If you really want more information on this, then I suggest you read Jim Parcels article about making in pro hockey. He at least has a better bead on what the OHL education package offers (and its not a base of 2000 either!), while exposing some myths about NCAA scholarships as well!

As for the numbers, well at least you FINALLY ADMIT that they are down since 1999!! (Seeing how you didn't challenge my previous figures)

As for Ontario, let me try this once more eye.
Ontario recruits (CCHA,ECAC,HE, WCHA)
1995 62
1996 56
1997 61 (not the 51 you claim!)
1998 51
1999 32
2000 44
2001 48
2002 49
2003 46
2004 34
2005 10 (so far)

2004 represents the lowest number since 99, when only 32 were recruited by the big four and is a significant decline compared to the number recruited out of Ontario in the mid to late 90's. Now if you want to talk about spin, then look no furhter than your own claim that all is the same becasue 65 were recruited out of Ontario in 04. Technically true but you omit the fact (THIS IS TRUE SPIN ON YOUR PART EYE) that the majority of those were recruited by the AHC and the CHA, the weak sisters of the NCAA where few if any pro players are being devoloped and where the majority will pay their own way through school (a maximum of 11 scholarships allowed). Yeah quite the same opportunity. My question to you eye is would half of those players recruited to teams such as Robert Morris, Canisius and so forth have played in the NCAA had these new expansion (and weak) teams not existed? That is why I am saying that not only are the overall numbers down from Canada but the quality is (at least in Ontario) as well! Do you suppose it is just a coincidence that the numbers began to fall after the OHL standardized their education packages in 1998?

As for your Daley stats (have you been to the "eye" doctor lately, I am not sure where you came up with your -28

From nhl.com TREVOR DALEY DAL D 27 1 5 6 -6 14 0 1 0 0 0 0 34 2.9 20.0 16:01 0.0

Sure doesnt' look like a minus 28 to me? Looks like you made the "accident" eye!

He will be a much better player than Ballard, trust me eye.

Anything else I can help you with eye?

 

[Oilers Chick]

VOB: Do you have a link for that Jim Parcels article? I'd be curious to read what he has to say.

While I refuse to get in the middle of you and eye's debate, I will add one comment about something you mentioned in your last post. While the CHA and Atlantic Hockey are not among the big four (heck, they are people here, even among the NCAA faithful, who believe that the ECAC do not belong with the other big three...though I beg to differ), they have been getting noticed more by NHL scouts in recent years. There are a few players that have been drafted and probably the most (recently) notable player to come out of either of these lesser known two conferences who has made it to the NHL is Dan Hinote. Hinote was drafted out of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point (Army). Army, at the time when Hinote was drafted, played in the MAAC Conference and just prior to the 2003-04 season became known as the Atlantic Hockey Conference (minus Iona and Fairfield, whose hockey programs dissolved at the conclusion of the 2002-03 season).

 

[eye]

Nothing wrong with my eyes VOB. Tryout agreement I quoted is 2 years old - not 4 and remains fairly current with todays standards I'm told by someone I trust more than you. Daley minus 22 in Utah and minus 6 in Dallas. Where Canadians played in the NCAA only came into this debate when you realized you were wrong in all of your previous conclusions. Like I said use the NHL expansion as a solid comparison of where I am coming from. There has been no drop off - now admit it. The figures show a hug increase from the low in 99 which was an aboration and not the norm. Niagara has been to the finals and many more of these lower class teams will get there soon. The drop off in talent and depth has been obvious in the CHL as well. Too many hockey teams in all leagues has reduced the competitiveness in all leagues IMO.

 

[VOB]

Nothing wrong with my eyes VOB. Tryout agreement I quoted is 2 years old - not 4 and remains fairly current with todays standards I'm told by someone I trust more than you. Daley minus 22 in Utah and minus 6 in Dallas. Where Canadians played in the NCAA only came into this debate when you realized you were wrong in all of your previous conclusions. Like I said use the NHL expansion as a solid comparison of where I am coming from. There has been no drop off - now admit it. The figures show a hug increase from the low in 99 which was an aboration and not the norm. Niagara has been to the finals and many more of these lower class teams will get there soon. The drop off in talent and depth has been obvious in the CHL as well. Too many hockey teams in all leagues has reduced the competitiveness in all leagues IMO.

You might want to look at the date on that tryout agreement (you know how your eyes are and all)

I will restate my main point, the number of incoming Canadians is at its lowest point since 1999!

Can you please tell me the year Niagra made it to the NCAA final?

There are no teams or conferences in the CHL that are the equivalent of a Canisius and so forth. A last place team like Saginaw may very well win the Memorial Cup in three years. Would you want to say the same about Canisius? Have any of those schools landed "blue chip" prospects? Can their recruiting classes be compared with even mid level teams such as Western Michigan or Northern Michigan? I think not! There is a huge disparity in talent within the NCAA, much more pronounced than the CHL. Many players on these weak teams would not make an average NCAA club. That is my point about the quality of talent, eye!

As for Daley +/-, there wasn't a Dman on the team that had a plus rating. But hey you must know far more than anyone in the Dallas Star's organization because they are obviously very high on him, what fools, right? Or I know, maybe the AHL was just that much harder for Daley than the NHL right?

Answer the question eye, how many 20 year olds were on a top pairing in the AHL?

 

[MikeC44]

Pretty fair agreement but like I said before there are several conditions and I still do not see evidence that the dollars offered come anywhere close to covering full education expenses. The Quebec league doesn't come close and the WHL seems to have the best and fairest program in place. No under the table deals - just a straight forward program that all players get equally and is totally above board. To quote Ted Baker again "Every player who plays in the league will receive no less than two thousand dollars for each year he has played, except if he signs a professional contract," said Baker.

A few comments:

The Quebec league gives $3500 per year, up to 3 years. The average tuition cost in Canada in around $4000-4500, so it's close to covering that.

The individual junior teams also give money to the player for their education. Halifax and Cape Breton each give $2500 per year, up to 4 years.

The Universities themselves will also cover some of the expenses for the player if you're playing hockey for them.

Players can also get jobs in the summer. Heck, just about every University in the Martimes runs a hockey school in the summer so if the player can't find a summer job, they can work there.

One other thing, you point out negatively that the OHL only requires that you take a very low minimum of courses, but later, you also point out negatively that they lose their scholarship if they stop going to school while playing.
So in one instance it's bad the OHL requires so little, but in the other it's bad they require so much. It can't be both.

Do all players in the NCAA receive the same package covering full education expenses?

 

[Oilers Chick]

Do all players in the NCAA receive the same package covering full education expenses?

It depends upon the school. Some will offer full athletic scholarships that include tuition, room & board, etc. The Ivies are not allowed to offer athletic scholarships, but instead can offer some sort of a "aid-in-need" package instead. While others such as Union College do not offer athletic scholarships but will/can offer some sort of a financial aid package.

 

[VOB]

A few comments:

Do all players in the NCAA receive the same package covering full education expenses?

The short answer is no. All NCAA teams are limited to 18 full scholarships. Teams in the AHC can only give 11 full scholarships. There are on average anywhere between 25 to 29 players on a team. Most schools that I am aware of usually try and give all their players some form of assistance but only about 10 to 12 players on any given team are on full rides. The rest have to pay anywhere between 20% to 80% of full costs.

 

[eye]

You might want to look at the date on that tryout agreement (you know how your eyes are and all)

I will restate my main point, the number of incoming Canadians is at its lowest point since 1999!

Can you please tell me the year Niagra made it to the NCAA final?

There are no teams or conferences in the CHL that are the equivalent of a Canisius and so forth. A last place team like Saginaw may very well win the Memorial Cup in three years. Would you want to say the same about Canisius? Have any of those schools landed "blue chip" prospects? Can their recruiting classes be compared with even mid level teams such as Western Michigan or Northern Michigan? I think not! There is a huge disparity in talent within the NCAA, much more pronounced than the CHL. Many players on these weak teams would not make an average NCAA club. That is my point about the quality of talent, eye!

As for Daley +/-, there wasn't a Dman on the team that had a plus rating. But hey you must know far more than anyone in the Dallas Star's organization because they are obviously very high on him, what fools, right? Or I know, maybe the AHL was just that much harder for Daley than the NHL right?

Answer the question eye, how many 20 year olds were on a top pairing in the AHL?

VOB, the only way you would know what year this agreement is, is if your employed by the OHL or your an agent. Just like I have been saying all along. What's your hidden agenda here VOB? What has changed from the agreement I posted to this year? Ted Baker made the same statements in January 2002. Quebec league is obviously behind the OHL and especially the WHL in terms of how players are looked after once they graduate from the CHL. VOB, do you not agree that most high picks end up in the NHL or AHL and never collect the more lucrative education packages and in fact, rarely finish college or university? Most of the players I see in the CIS are players that were mid to late round CHL picks and in the case of the OHL would receive much lower packages. Your views. Now be honest and try to do it without putting a spin on the figures.

VOB, no matter how you slice and dice it - Ontario, Canada wide there is no disputing the facts. There are as many or more Ontario and Canadian players going south of the border this year as there have been in 7 of the last 10 years, that is unless you either can't count or your just to stubborn to admit it. Alot more than 1999 wouldn't you agree? Iv'e had my fun and yanking your chain has run it's course. This is no longer up for debate at the numbers do not lie. Yes expansion has effected where players go just like it has in the NHL and the OHL.

As for Daley, again how would you know he was on Utah's top pairing unless you are an agent? It's quite possible that he did get top pairing since they were so awful and he is a high pick bound to get opportunity, at least for a year or two before he will have to stand on his own two feet. I'll take Martin, Leopold and Ballard any day and twice on Sundays over him but we can revisit this one in a couple of years.

Niagara went to the NCAA tourney twice I believe and even beat UNH one year 4-1. Niagara have beaten a few teams as have some of these other low end teams you speak of. Their goal is to get 18 scholarships as well. Just give it time. There are many CHL teams that have never won a league championship let alone a Memorial Cup birth so there is 2 tiers in the CHL as well. The NCAA expansion is still relatively new. Give it time. I think the potential is there for 30-35 solid NCAA programs.

 

[VOB]

"VOB, the only way you would know what year this agreement is, is if your employed by the OHL or your an agent. Just like I have been saying all along. What's your hidden agenda here VOB? What has changed from the agreement I posted to this year? Ted Baker made the same statements in January 2002. Quebec league is obviously behind the OHL and especially the WHL in terms of how players are looked after once they graduate from the CHL. VOB, do you not agree that most high picks end up in the NHL or AHL and never collect the more lucrative education packages and in fact, rarely finish college or university? Most of the players I see in the CIS are players that were mid to late round CHL picks and in the case of the OHL would receive much lower packages. Your views. Now be honest and try to do it without putting a spin on the figures."

I am not a player agent but I will admit that I do know some on a very personal level. Why is so important for you to know what I do? What do you do? You seem to have a very pro NCAA bias and have very little positive things to say about the CHL. I know that you are not connected to any NCAA team because of your lack of basic information (just about every personnel in the D-1 ranks, from head coaches to even equipment managers know the standard OHL education package inside out, they have to because they compete against it every year) but did you play college hockey? Were you not good enough to make a CHL team in your teens and harbor resentments because of it?

Have I ever denied that the majority of high OHL picks go on to the pros and negate their scholarship money? Does that really matter though? They were given the opportunity for a free education but elected to pursue a pro career sooner rather than later. Those mid to late picks do, however, get a substantial proportion of their education paid for by their former OHL club (remember the bare minimum is full tuition) and for most of those players, their university is also providing financial support.

VOB, no matter how you slice and dice it - Ontario, Canada wide there is no disputing the facts. There are as many or more Ontario and Canadian players going south of the border this year as there have been in 7 of the last 10 years, that is unless you either can't count or your just to stubborn to admit it. Alot more than 1999 wouldn't you agree? Iv'e had my fun and yanking your chain has run it's course. This is no longer up for debate at the numbers do not lie. Yes expansion has effected where players go just like it has in the NHL and the OHL.

NCAA expansion cannot be viewed in the same context of either the NHL or CHL expansion. In both the NHL and CHL players are drafted and for the most part have little say as to where they will be playing. The talent, however, is evenly spread and the expansion teams do not stay at the bottom for very long. In the NCAA, teams must recruit players and many of these new expansion teams are at a severe disadvantage. They cannot offer the same number of scholarships, they do not have comparable facilities nor do they have any tradition behind their programs. While a Niagra may have a cinderella run once every five years or so, they are not a legitimate contender for a title and never will be for the foreseeable future. These AHC simply cannot draw in the talent. Instead they are forced to recruit players who simply are not good enough to play on established D-1 teams. How many of Canisius' players can even make the Michigan Tech team? There are many good young players on Saginaw's team that could have played on just about any other OHL club in some capicity and there is no doubt in anyone's mind that Saginaw will be an above .500 team within the next two years. Could Canisius say the same if they were put in the CCHA? I think not!

I will say it again eye, numbers in 2004 are the lowest since 1999, and while they may be higher than 97, we have to remember that a dozen or so college teams were added since then. The majority from Ontario went to those clubs this year, suggesting to just about any rational person that the quality of players in Ontario is down.

As for Daley, again how would you know he was on Utah's top pairing unless you are an agent? It's quite possible that he did get top pairing since they were so awful and he is a high pick bound to get opportunity, at least for a year or two before he will have to stand on his own two feet. I'll take Martin, Leopold and Ballard any day and twice on Sundays over him but we can revisit this one in a couple of years.

I'll give you Leopold over Daley but Ballard? Come on! Like you say, we will re-visit this in a couple of years and you can say how right I was.

Anything else I can help you with eye?

 

[MikeC44]

It depends upon the school. Some will offer full athletic scholarships that include tuition, room & board, etc. The Ivies are not allowed to offer athletic scholarships, but instead can offer some sort of a "aid-in-need" package instead. While others such as Union College do not offer athletic scholarships but will/can offer some sort of a financial aid package.

To you and to VOB.

That was kind of a rhetorical question.

Eye stated how the CHL package does not necessarily cover all education expenses for all of the players, and how some players get more than others.
It was just a subtle reminder that the NCAA isn't much different.

 

[eye]

To the contrary VOB, I am a big fan of the CHL and of hockey in general. My fan loyalties still lie with the Jets-Coyotes NHL and to the Golden Gophers-NCAA as my personal favourites but I go to CHL games every chance I get and quite enjoy it. It bothers me and forces me to defend the NCAA when threads like this one start up and either Americans sell their NCAA brand of hockey and it's players short, or an uninformed poster comes on here and says Kessel is a coward for not going to Saginaw instead of Wisconsin or someone like yourself comes on here and and gives a one sided promotion of the CHL with no balanced perspective. Both programs have their advantages and both have their drawbacks. IMO, however; there is no more exciting place to watch or play hockey than places such as Wisconsin, UND, Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State, LSSU in it's hay day, Bowling Green, Western Michigan at times, even Ferris State and Northern Michigan when their on, and several other NCAA programs which I have been to only once each like Cornell, UNH, Maine, BU, B.C.,Vermont, St. Lawrence and even Union and RPI.. The fans and the bands add to the excitement and every game is played with playoff intensity. The CHL is a different kind of hockey that I quite enjoy and I admit many young high end prospects understandably still choose the CHL as the quickest way to the NHL but it sure isn't the only way and IMO no longer presents any development advantage over the NCAA. By the way VOB, since you asked I have forgotten more about hockey than you will ever know as I once worked in the game and have played at a high level. You may get around on the internet better than I do or you might just have a better memory and access to current inside OHL info but my EYE for recognizing talent has been pretty reliable over the years. Cheers and I look forward to revisiting our personal bets in a few years. There must be another thread we can go and add some life to now.

 

[VOB]

Yes eye, I will certainly enjoy re-visiting our wagers in a couple of years. I too am a fan of both systems and it bothers me to no end when posters, such as yourself, pass off misguided opinions as factual evidence. The CHL has come a long long way in terms of the education it provided for its players. What OHL players now receive is very comparable to what they can obtain had they chosen the NCAA route. The perception that few OHL players (like your 10% comment) use their available scholarship packages is not only dead wrong but implies that those players do not have the wherewithal to actually go on to university and obtain their degrees. Nothing of course is further from the truth and the increasing numbers of CHL players in the CIS further discredits such assumptions.

An OHL coach told me, not very long ago, of a new motto that many in the league are using when they are convincing players who have NCAA leanings to come over their way. The motto of "You no longer have to go the NCAA route to get a quality education" seems to be paying off as less and less high-end Ontario kids are choosing the NCAA route and more and more Americans are seriously looking into the O.