Post-Game Talk: Nashville 3 Oilers 0

[Little Fury]

RNH got $6 million (9.3% of the cap at the time) for 24 points in 40 game performance (49 point pro-rated), including an abysmal 4 goals (8 goal season pro-rated).

Leon got 10.4% of the cap for a 77 point season (8th or 9th in the league in scoring) and outscoring McDavid in the playoffs.

Just things that make you go "hmmmmm".

RNH's contract was a mistake too. I'm not sure how that constitutes a defense.

Drai was probably an overpay on his own merits when you consider comparable players on more recent deals. If he's not the dominant 2C he's being paid to be, then it's going to be a boat anchor deal.

 

[Soundwave]

RNH's contract was a mistake too. I'm not sure how that constitutes a defense.

Drai was probably an overpay on his own merits when you consider comparable players on more recent deals. If he's not the dominant 2C he's being paid to be, then it's going to be a boat anchor deal.

I don't think it's really even a "boat anchor deal".

It's $1 million too much, what are you going to do with $1 million in cap space? Basically nothing.

Lucic + Russell + Sekera + Strome being a such a large chunk of the cap is a bigger problem.

 

[Oilers in NS]

He has struggled the last two games for sure. Think he caught Draisaitl-itis. Thankfully Yamamoto seems to be over it now that he’s been moved to another line. Kid looked good again last night more often than not.

From what I have seen the last 2 games, YamA is a buzz saw. We have something with him. Kassian looks better as well. He needs to hit to be successful . Strome actually looks ok when u watch. I’m going to game tomorrow night then I go back East. I got to see 3 games so I want a big win. Very interested to see Marody

 

[Little Fury]

I don't think it's really even a "boat anchor deal".

It's $1 million too much, what are you going to do with $1 million in cap space? Basically nothing.

Lucic + Russell + Sekera + Strome being a such a large chunk of the cap is a bigger problem.

If he's no more than a 60-ish point 2C who struggles to produce without elite calibre linemates, then it's more than a million bucks over.

But even if we say it's a million bucks, your other examples show how small overpays all add up. Death by a thousand cuts.

 

[guymez]

His possession numbers as I have shown already are second worst on the team to only Kassian. And that's with both sets of wingers.

His scoring chance % is worst on the team, and he has the 5 highest % of offensive zone starts.

All his state have pointed to that he is getting caved in at 5v5. He has been on the ice for 1 goal for 5v5 and 6 against, which is worst on the team.

He hasn't been very good at driving offense or playing well defensively this season at all. He has made some good offense when playing with McDavid on special teams but outside of that he has struggled.

I know he is better and will be better. But ignoring everything and just saying "Draisaitl good lol I see him please playing great even though he isn't"

TLDR: His stats point to a player that is struggling and the eye test backs it up. He will improve.

IMO he better improve or this team will not succeed. He is a critical part of what happens to this team over the long haul.

EDIT: I agree with @Mez and @RegDunlop...this discussion should probably be moved to the right thread.

 

[Soundwave]

If he's no more than a 60-ish point 2C who struggles to produce without elite calibre linemates, then it's more than a million bucks over.

But even if we say it's a million bucks, your other examples show how small overpays all add up. Death by a thousand cuts.

60 point players are going to start getting paid $8 million, that's pretty much becoming the "new $6 million".

6 million used to be about 10% of the cap. Today 10% of the cap is $7.9 million and if the cap rises another 2-3 million again, it's over $8 million.

You can't expect salaries to stay stagnant when the cap has risen this much either.

That doesn't absolve your GM of negotiating tough, but I see what the players and their agents are seeing too.

 

[nabob]

From what I have seen the last 2 games, YamA is a buzz saw. We have something with him. Kassian looks better as well. He needs to hit to be successful . Strome actually looks ok when u watch. I’m going to game tomorrow night then I go back East. I got to see 3 games so I want a big win. Very interested to see Marody

Agree with your comments and I hope you get to see a big win.

 

[Little Fury]

60 point players are going to start getting paid $8 million, that's pretty much becoming the "new $6 million".

6 million used to be about 10% of the cap. Today 10% of the cap is $7.9 million and if the cap rises another 2-3 million again, it's over $8 million.

You can't expect salaries to stay stagnant when the cap has risen this much either.

So he can underachieve like crazy and it's ok because cap inflation?

 

[Soundwave]

So he can underachieve like crazy and it's ok because cap inflation?

No, and I don't think he's "underachieving like crazy". The results you're getting now are the result of a front office that has gutted their winger depth to the point where now you see real consequences, there isn not enough talent for your so-called "amazing center depth" to play with and its effectively neutered in a lot of ways.

So bravo, Oilers.

 

[nabob]

60 point players are going to start getting paid $8 million, that's pretty much becoming the "new $6 million".

6 million used to be about 10% of the cap. Today 10% of the cap is $7.9 million and if the cap rises another 2-3 million again, it's over $8 million.

You can't expect salaries to stay stagnant when the cap has risen this much either.

Players who only excel on the wing with supremely talented linemates get, at max, a contract like Pasta got in Boston.

I find it sad that we are treating Drai as if being a 60 point player is what he is. He’s better than that. Have you gotten to the point where the only excuse for his poor effort is that he’s just not nearly as an effective player as it seems he was the last two seasons? Has he regressed?

 

[Soundwave]

Players who only excel on the wing with supremely talented linemates get, at max, a contract like Pasta got in Boston.

I find it sad that we are treating Drai as if being a 60 point player is what he is. He’s better than that. Have you gotten to the point where the only excuse for his poor effort is that he’s just not nearly as an effective player as it seems he was the last two seasons? Has he regressed?

He's the same player he has been the last two years.

You guys are in denial about how badly this franchise gutted its winger depth and don't want to look at the reality of that.

That has consequences. This is the consequence now, your so called "amazing center depth" is being negatively impacted because there's no talent for them to play with. Two of the centers have to play together with a freaking AHL winger and your 2nd line center then is stuck with two mediocre players or two young kids who are in way over their head and probably need AHL time.

You really thought this would work out great and there would be no problems? Guess what? There are big problems.

 

[Little Fury]

No, and I don't think he's "underachieving like crazy". The results you're getting now are the result of a front office that has gutted their winger depth to the point where now you see real consequences, there isn not enough talent for your so-called "amazing center depth" to play with and its effectively neutered in a lot of ways.

So bravo, Oilers.

At what point is he responsible for his own (poor) play?

 

[Soundwave]

At what point is he responsible for his own (poor) play?

When he has something reasonable to play with.

Lucic sucks. Reider is 3rd/4th liner. Yamamoto and Puljujarvi are in way over their heads, they really should both be in the AHL.

Until then this forward group is going to suck because it's a consequence of gutting your winger group. Now the Oilers can deal with the consequences of that. It's all fun and games when you're gifting away Hall, Maroon, Eberle, etc. and betting the farm on Lucic, now this management can deal with the ugly side of what they've done.

 

[nabob]

He's the same player he has been the last two years.

You guys are in denial about how badly this franchise gutted its winger depth and don't want to look at the reality of that.

That has consequences. This is the consequence now, your so called "amazing center depth" is being negatively impacted because there's no talent for them to play with. Two of the centers have to play together with a freaking AHL winger and your 2nd line center then is stuck with two mediocre players or two young kids who are in way over their head and probably need AHL time.

You really thought this would work out great and there would be no problems? Guess what? There are big problems.

He is the same player as the last two seasons.
His effort level is not the same as the last two seasons, which is the biggest problem for him.

To say that having Eberle or Pouliot or slepy or whatever winger depth we’ve lost since our playoff run would make any difference for him isn’t true.

The biggest problem is we hitched a huge contract and 8 years to a player who you are claiming is a 60 point player that needs a high level winger to carry the play and drive the line for him.

 

[Soundwave]

He is the same player as the last two seasons.
His effort level is not the same as the last two seasons, which is the biggest problem for him.

He's the same player, Leon is a player that's easy to dog pile on because of the deliberate style he plays. That's always been the case.

That's always been his game, you guys are the ones who don't want to acknowledge he has garbage to work with.

 

[MessierII]

When he has something reasonable to play with.

Lucic sucks. Reider is 3rd/4th liner. Yamamoto and Puljujarvi are in way over their heads, they really should both be in the AHL.

Until then this forward group is going to suck because it's a consequence of gutting your winger group. Now the Oilers can deal with the consequences of that. It's all fun and games when you're gifting away Hall, Maroon, Eberle, etc. and betting the farm on Lucic, now this management can deal with the ugly side of what they've done.

He was off mcdavids line like 40% of last year and produced some points at even strength. Your saying he’s incapable of scoring any even strength points through 6 games? He should be able to get on the board with two Steve McIntyre’s on his wings.

 

[StevenF1919]

He's the same player, Leon is a player that's easy to dog pile on because of the deliberate style he plays.

That's always been his game, you guys are the ones who don't want to acknowledge he has garbage to work with.

All of his linemates have better numbers playing away from him. He's got the worst possession and GF% numbers on the team. At what point does Draisaitl bear some responsibility for this?

 

[LaGu]

18/19
3-3 vs NJD, BOS, NYR, WPG, BOS, NSH

17/18
2-4 vs CGY, VAN, WPG, OTT, CAR, CHI

16/17
5-1 vs CGY, CGY, BUF, CAR, STL, WPG

Toughest start I've seen in years for the Oilers and honestly I have little problem with it so far even though I really counted on a win vs NJD in Gbg.

Of course I am hoping for more but even 1 W in the next 3 GP would be decent imho. After those games we start facing more normal teams...

 

[Little Fury]

When he has something reasonable to play with.

Lucic sucks. Reider is 3rd/4th liner. Yamamoto and Puljujarvi are in way over their heads, they really should both be in the AHL.

Until then this forward group is going to suck because it's a consequence of gutting your winger group. Now the Oilers can deal with the consequences of that. It's all fun and games when you're gifting away Hall, Maroon, Eberle, etc. and betting the farm on Lucic, now this management can deal with the ugly side of what they've done.

Like I said before: just watch him. He's sleepwalking out there. Yeah the group on the wings isn't good, but he need to own his slow start and be better. What happened to elevating your linemates? Hell, Taylor Hall could do it with less help than what Drai has.

If he can't even slightly raise the play of those around him or find some modicum of success playing secondary competition (or at least not get caved in), what good is he to this team?

 

[Soundwave]

All of his linemates have better numbers playing away from him. He's got the worst possession and GF% numbers on the team. At what point does Draisaitl bear some responsibility for this?

Who on the 2nd/3rd/4th line is doing anything to begin with?

They have one f***ing goal in six games, lol.

This team is constructed like a joke and the results are predictable.

This is what happens when you destroy your team's winger depth, these are the consequences.

 

[Soundwave]

Like I said before: just watch him. He's sleepwalking out there. Yeah the group on the wings isn't good, but he need to own his slow start and be better. What happened to elevating your linemates? Hell, Taylor Hall could do it with less help than what Drai has.

If he can't even slightly raise the play of those around him or find some modicum of success playing secondary competition (or at least not get caved in), what good is he to this team?

Taylor Hall is a top 15 player in the world, maybe the Oilers shouldn't have freaking traded him.

Maybe they should stop doing stupid roster decisions and they might (gasp!) actually for once have a functional roster that can perform and doesn't have monstrous bottlenecks in its production.

But yeah Oilers, go ahead and do the Hall thing to Draisaitl. Blame him for everything and chase him out of town for probably pennies on the dollar. See how well that turned out for this franchise last time.

Maybe for ONCE this franchise can ask itself if its being fair to these players. Is that level of winger depth reasonable to ask Draisaitl to have success with? Was Dubnyk given fair help? Was Schultz? Was Hall? Maybe it's not the freaking players fault.

 

[StevenF1919]

Who on the 2nd/3rd/4th line is doing anything to begin with?

They have one ****ing goal in six games, lol.

This team is constructed like a joke and the results are predictable.

This is what happens when you destroy your team's winger depth, these are the consequences.

I don't disagree with you, but you can't blame Draisaitl's linemates for his poor play and effort level. He's been the worst player on his line for all six games.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't disagree with you, but you can't blame Draisaitl's linemates for his poor play and effort level. He's been the worst player on his line for all six games.

Even that is hyperbolic, he's had a good 2-3 high end set ups each game, that teammates have whiffed on. But "on pace for 27 points" Lucic is playing better because he skated hard one shift and hit something. Doesn't matter if he generates an actual scoring chance once in a blue moon, it's all about "effort". Whoopity doo, lets give him a participation ribbon.

 

[StevenF1919]

Even that is hyperbolic, he's had a good 2-3 high end set ups each game, that teammates have whiffed on. But "on pace for 27 points" Lucic is playing better because he skated hard one shift and hit something. Whoopity doo, lets give him a participation ribbon.

I haven't praised Lucic once this year (he still sucks). Draisaitl has been awful and needs to step up, I don't care who he's playing with or how poorly other players are playing.

 

[Soundwave]

I haven't praised Lucic once this year (he still sucks). Draisaitl has been awful and needs to step up, I don't care who he's playing with or how poorly other players are playing.

It's going to be hard for him, I can tell you right now this is not going to work.

This forward group is not going to work.

They've blown so many chances to have a good forward group and now have to suffer the consequences of their actions. Hockey gods don't let you off the hook.

This is not going to magically correct itself, this is a horrendous 2nd/3rd/4th line setup and it's designed to have Leon or RNH fail.

You guys can yell "step it up!" all you want. It's not changing a damn thing.