Confirmed Trade: [MTL/TBL] Jonathan Drouin + cond. 2018 6th for Mikhail Sergachev + cond. 2018 2nd

[Sun God Nika]

I see sergachev going right below the tier of players below karlsson

Dmen tier 1 - Karlsson

dmen tier 2 - Doughty, Subban, Burns, Hedman

dmen tier 3 Letang, OEL, Byfuglien, Krug, Carlsson | This where I see sergechev in like 3 - 4 years.

 

[Hictor Vedman*]

I see sergachev going right below the tier of players below karlsson

Dmen tier 1 - Karlsson

dmen tier 2 - Doughty, Subban, Burns, Hedman

dmen tier 3 Letang, OEL, Byfuglien, Krug, Carlsson | This where I see sergechev in like 3 - 4 years.

Just curious, but what about guys like Josi, Pietrangelo, Parayko?

disagree.

1) Get one of the top D prospects in the league, and a good pick
2) Save money to sign Palat/Johnson
3) Lose no one significant in the expansion draft
4) get a significantly better return than just over a year ago when Drouin held out and demanded a trade (at age 21)

Good points.

IMO, at the end of the day point 4 is likely what was really the main factor behind this deal for Yzerman.

Yeah, it definitely wasn't #1 or anything.

Weird how a trade can change one's mind about the draft. I wanted us to move the 14th overall pick with Drouin to get a really good young D. Now I want us to keep it and hope Liljegren or Valimaki are still available.

 

[Hictor Vedman*]

This post will probably be ignored, but Drouin simply is just not a center. Tampa Bay's C depth was depleted with injuries this season to the point where they had to put rookies Brayden Point and Yanni Gourde in there. Despite being desperate for C, they still didn't shift Drouin over to the middle.



This was their go-to lineup for basically that entire final stretch of the season during when Stamkos/Johnson were injured and Boyle traded.

Seeing that lineup again... I have no idea how we stayed competitive in the playoff hunt until the second last game of the year.

Just disgusting.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Two of the most overrated players on hfboards. Sounds about fair.

 

[Noldo]

If the Habs offered this contract as an offersheet, would TB have matched or taken the compensation? Just thought I'd rather have kept Sergachev and offered that contract as an offersheet considering that the Habs should not draft too early over the next couple of years. I get that with the expansion draft, he'd probably have been traded somewhere else, but assuming he remained a TB player on july 1st, what would have been TB's decision? I apologize if this has already been asked and answered.

Without being a TB fan I would say that TB had definitely matched and sorted out the cap somehow. 1st + 2nd + 3rd compared to Sergachev easily favors Sergy:

- Sergachev was picked at 9th OA, hard to imagine Habs' 1st in 2018 being as high
- picks in 2018 would not contribute anything in 2017/2018 season (and could take even longer before they start to contribute)
- by the time there could be an offer sheet, TB would have already made arrangements for expansion draft

 

[Ola]

This post will probably be ignored, but Drouin simply is just not a center

This post will probably be ignored, but I have run across a lot of "he is not a center"-Hitlers at this place the last years.

Facts of a matter is that there is a huge shortage of centers in this league, which probably is the most important position in the game right now. NYR signed Kevin Hayes as a UFA. Hayes had almost exclusively played wing his -- entire -- college career. From day 1 they put him at center. Huge guy that could skate and create offense at the NHL level? Who cares that he like was 12% on FOs his first year, and had to round out his game defensively. He had a lot of natural center abilities.

Far from all wingers can play center. It largely boils down to the center being able to change tempo more or less in his game. Many wingers play a offensive game where they more or less always full throttle up ice, and at most slams on a full break looking for a trailer. As a you need to be able to cruise up ice and let a "trap" adjust to you and make the play when they try to close the net, sometimes that is done at 50% speed, sometimes at 100% speed. When you put a winger at center that don't have this ability, they will a couple of time just skate right into someone in the neutral zone which is a disaster.

But many wingers have those abilities. And especially, many wingers have a history of playing center -- like Hayes had -- before they were like 15 y/o or whatever. I remember stating that I think many teams would be interested in Puljujärvi due to his size and the fact that I thought many teams would be interested to fill a void at center with him, and many jumped me like "haha you don't even know he plays wing". Pulju played wing in Finland and as I understand will become a career winger for EDM. But I am still fairly certain that like 20 teams in this league would have turned him into a center. He has all the necessary abilities, and there are so many teams looking for that center. Its still very early, but I also wonder if many teams won't be interested in Svechnikov at center next season, just for example.

My point is just, I wouldn't rule out that MTL could succeed in turning Druin into a center.

 

[No More Subban]

Yes, the Habs didnt trade for a center but people need to realize that Drouin is a Quebecois. It's always been a priority for the team to look for that local hero.

 

[KPower]

Bergevin saved his job with this move.

The French media run the team anyhow.

 

[almostawake]

This post will probably be ignored, but I have run across a lot of "he is not a center"-Hitlers at this place the last years.

Facts of a matter is that there is a huge shortage of centers in this league, which probably is the most important position in the game right now. NYR signed Kevin Hayes as a UFA. Hayes had almost exclusively played wing his -- entire -- college career. From day 1 they put him at center. Huge guy that could skate and create offense at the NHL level? Who cares that he like was 12% on FOs his first year, and had to round out his game defensively. He had a lot of natural center abilities.

Far from all wingers can play center. It largely boils down to the center being able to change tempo more or less in his game. Many wingers play a offensive game where they more or less always full throttle up ice, and at most slams on a full break looking for a trailer. As a you need to be able to cruise up ice and let a "trap" adjust to you and make the play when they try to close the net, sometimes that is done at 50% speed, sometimes at 100% speed. When you put a winger at center that don't have this ability, they will a couple of time just skate right into someone in the neutral zone which is a disaster.

But many wingers have those abilities. And especially, many wingers have a history of playing center -- like Hayes had -- before they were like 15 y/o or whatever. I remember stating that I think many teams would be interested in Puljujärvi due to his size and the fact that I thought many teams would be interested to fill a void at center with him, and many jumped me like "haha you don't even know he plays wing". Pulju played wing in Finland and as I understand will become a career winger for EDM. But I am still fairly certain that like 20 teams in this league would have turned him into a center. He has all the necessary abilities, and there are so many teams looking for that center. Its still very early, but I also wonder if many teams won't be interested in Svechnikov at center next season, just for example.

My point is just, I wouldn't rule out that MTL could succeed in turning Druin into a center.

The issue with Drouin is that his offensive skill set has always made more sense at center than wing. He played significant time there in Junior and he has been tried there several times at the NHL level. He simply lacks the 200-foot game to do it.

Some guys successfully change to center, but at least in my experience (and also in your examples) they tend to be big wingers who are strong along the boards but improved their skating a lot at the professional level (e.x. as they grew into their bodies).

In my opinion it is rare to see a guy make it at center in the NHL after he was moved away from center due to a questionable defensive game.

 

[le_sean]

I don't think he's a centre. But that doesn't matter as then it gives the Habs probably the best LW depth in the league with Max, JD, Lehkonen, and Byron. And if JD and Lehkonen keep developing as they naturally should, Max can be traded for some young pieces before he demands $8m per year.

 

[member 157595]

I think both teams simultaneously did well and also took huge risks with this move, if that makes sense.

Montreal unquestionably won this trade in terms of value. Drouin also significantly helps their offense, which was their death against the Rangers. However, unless Drouin learns to play center (or they move Galchenyuk+ for a center, which may be tough without having Sergachev as a trade chip?) they're still incredibly weak down the middle and they're not winning a Cup that way. The problem is that they have to go for it; Weber's not getting any younger, Patches is currently cheap but won't remain that way, Price isn't signed long term yet and their prospect pool sans Sergachev is mediocre at best/downright terrible at the worst. If they can address the center situation elsewhere, they're going to be a Cup contender next year. Otherwise, I'd argue they're still a pretender, which may be wishful thinking so take that into consideration.

Tampa got hosed value-wise here, which is why I think they're also taking a risk. However, they couldn't have afforded that contract that Montreal offered (not that I think it's a bad deal for Montreal, I think it's a calculated risk and I bet the contract will pay off for them) and needed more long-term defensive answers. Sergachev is just a prospect, and he's not worth as much as Drouin in a vacuum, but he's a good one with high potential. This will also help Tampa in the expansion draft, but they still need LV/someone else to take that Killorn contract IMO since Callahan (if he doesn't have a NMC, which I don't remember so someone can hopefully help me with this) is a pipe dream.

I understand the deal from both ends but it's a risk from both ends too.

 

[TS Quint]

Drouin a centre? Hahaha. Could you imagine him trying to cover Malkin, Crosby, McDavid, Getzlaf, Kopitar, even guys like Thornton and Backes would eat him alive.

 

[Marcobruin]

Drouin a centre? Hahaha. Could you imagine him trying to cover Malkin, Crosby, McDavid, Getzlaf, Kopitar, even guys like Thornton and Backes would eat him alive.

Sure thing , the way patrick kane would get eaten alive...right?
Or tyler johnson,

 

[Anksun]

Sergachev didnt like been send down last year. I sure hope for Yzerman that its clear either way next season for Sergachev (up or down in the minor again ). Because if Sergachev is cut while doing good he's going to have that 2nd rounder in the back of his head. (As in: they are getting a 2nd rounder at the expence of my own development. ) I dont like that condition (40 games) 1 bit for the lightning

 

[JoVel]

I would not want Drouin as my first line center. Only a handful amount of games at center in the NHL. And also I don't think he is defensively response enough for being a center. You'll need one or two Lehtinen's aside him if you're planning on making him a center.

 

[The Macho King]

Sure thing , the way patrick kane would get eaten alive...right?
Or tyler johnson,

Kane is a winger, so I don't know why you brought him up...

And Johnson is actually pretty good defensively. Not super strong but he's tenacious and fast while being responsible. Not necessarily the guy you want out there against the Crosby line, but if the match up happens you're not panicking.

 

[Marcobruin]

Bruins should have gotten Drouun.
They need offence and he was the only young gifted offensive forward available. .All of these so called prospects on D and we couldn't make a deal. Unless the bruins prospects are overestimated. .the zborils lauzons carlos...
Boy is the bruins. Offence going to be tough to watch

 

[TS Quint]

I think both teams simultaneously did well and also took huge risks with this move, if that makes sense.

Montreal unquestionably won this trade in terms of value. Drouin also significantly helps their offense, which was their death against the Rangers. However, unless Drouin learns to play center (or they move Galchenyuk+ for a center, which may be tough without having Sergachev as a trade chip?) they're still incredibly weak down the middle and they're not winning a Cup that way. The problem is that they have to go for it; Weber's not getting any younger, Patches is currently cheap but won't remain that way, Price isn't signed long term yet and their prospect pool sans Sergachev is mediocre at best/downright terrible at the worst. If they can address the center situation elsewhere, they're going to be a Cup contender next year. Otherwise, I'd argue they're still a pretender, which may be wishful thinking so take that into consideration.

Tampa got hosed value-wise here, which is why I think they're also taking a risk. However, they couldn't have afforded that contract that Montreal offered (not that I think it's a bad deal for Montreal, I think it's a calculated risk and I bet the contract will pay off for them) and needed more long-term defensive answers. Sergachev is just a prospect, and he's not worth as much as Drouin in a vacuum, but he's a good one with high potential. This will also help Tampa in the expansion draft, but they still need LV/someone else to take that Killorn contract IMO since Callahan (if he doesn't have a NMC, which I don't remember so someone can hopefully help me with this) is a pipe dream.

I understand the deal from both ends but it's a risk from both ends too.

Drouin is a very good player. But to say Tampa got hosed is a little over the top. Let's be real here most people here are evaluating Drouin as his top potential and honestly some are out of their minds with all this talk of him growing into one of the best players in the league. Some people don't want to hear this but he's just a winger. Sure great with the puck but no real defensive responsibility. For the most part he will be a 60 point player with maybe a season or two of 70 points if he's lucky. That's not an insult! That's top 10 LW with a few seasons of being top 2. That's reality . He will never be a PPG player.

Would I be off to say Sergachev has a floor of top 4? 20min/game of making an impact. A really good shot of top pairing, making an impact 22-26min/game and running the top PP? This is why Tampa adds the 2nd.

 

[TS Quint]

Bruins should have gotten Drouun.
They need offence and he was the only young gifted offensive forward available. .All of these so called prospects on D and we couldn't make a deal. Unless the bruins prospects are overestimated. .the zborils lauzons carlos...
Boy is the bruins. Offence going to be tough to watch

You forgot the only player that comes close to Sergachev. Would you replace Sergachev with McAvoy?

 

[Marcobruin]

Kane is a winger, so I don't know why you brought him up...

And Johnson is actually pretty good defensively. Not super strong but he's tenacious and fast while being responsible. Not necessarily the guy you want out there against the Crosby line, but if the match up happens you're not panicking.

Drouin is a winger too....so you were projecting if he were a center...well let us project kane as a center...or gaudreau atkinson etc...
And drouin is a real fine skater...point is nothing can lead us to believe he will be eaten alive..
Drouin will be more then fine .

 

[sandysan]

Prett much this.

While Drouin is an amazing talent, I would think Montréal maybe should've sorted out the center position first. Something might be in the workings there as well, though.

people keep saying this. I would love it to be true, but I have to ask. If the habs are indeed in the market for a 1C, what NOW goes the other way ? Galchenyuk alone DOES NOT GET YOU A 1C. So its galchenyuk +, who is the plus ? Which one of our blue chip prospects can we use to sweeten the deal ? wait ? what's that ? we don't have any blue chip prospects? Ok so lets go with galchenyuk + a great competitive 2/3 shut down center in turtleneck? Wait what? he makes how much ? really ?

the habs biggest need was at 1C. this was not a secret. We had the assets to get a 1C and we pissed them away to fill a non existent need on the wing with another undersized winger.

I always suspected that Radulov was using us to shake off the stink/bad taste for other NHL teams. I had hoped that he would fall in love with montreal and might consider taking a discount to resign. If he's considering the habs, right now, the best case scenario is that he lines up with danault as the pivot. Who could say no to that ???

if we dont resign him, we lose a winger and replace him with drouin at the cost of sergachev and we STILL have gaping holes up the middle.

 

[TS Quint]

Sure thing , the way patrick kane would get eaten alive...right?
Or tyler johnson,

Yes. There's a reason Kane DOESNT play centre. There's a reason why teams wouldn't even consider trading any of those top group I listed for Johnson. Pretty obvious.

 

[member 157595]

Drouin is a very good player. But to say Tampa got hosed is a little over the top. Let's be real here most people here are evaluating Drouin as his top potential and honestly some are out of their minds with all this talk of him growing into one of the best players in the league. Some people don't want to hear this but he's just a winger. Sure great with the puck but no real defensive responsibility. For the most part he will be a 60 point player with maybe a season or two of 70 points if he's lucky. That's not an insult! That's top 10 LW with a few seasons of being top 2. That's reality . He will never be a PPG player.

"Just a winger" is even more over the top than my original statement.

Drouin, in a vacuum, is definitely worth more than Sergachev. It's by no means a terrible trade for Tampa though, it makes a lot of sense for them.

Would I be off to say Sergachev has a floor of top 4? 20min/game of making an impact. A really good shot of top pairing, making an impact 22-26min/game and running the top PP?

Yes, you would be wrong in Sergachev's floor IMO. He's a boom-or-bust player. However, I say that in a complementary way because I hate the idea of drafting "safe" players; go big or go home, and Sergachev has the tools that could help him develop into something special.

This is why Tampa adds the 2nd.

I thought Montreal added the conditional 2nd?

EDIT: I think you and I are using the word "added" differently; you're using it as "received" while I'm using it as "provided." Neither of us would be wrong in that case.

 

[TS Quint]

I would not want Drouin as my first line center. Only a handful amount of games at center in the NHL. And also I don't think he is defensively response enough for being a center. You'll need one or two Lehtinen's aside him if you're planning on making him a center.

I think if Tampa was planning on keeping Drouin long term they might have gave him a better shot at centre. But when you are trying to pump and dump him he needs to put up points. Moving him to centre would have cost him at least 10 points through defensive responsibility and discipline for when he forgets to play defense.

 

[crazy8888]

I see sergachev going right below the tier of players below karlsson

Dmen tier 1 - Karlsson,

dmen tier 2 - Doughty, Subban, Burns, Hedman

dmen tier 3 Letang, OEL, Byfuglien, Krug, Carlsson | This where I see sergechev in like 3 - 4 years.

I would put big Buff and Letang in tier two. Would add Burns to tier one.

As for the Sergachev guy. I have never heard of him