Eklund Rumor: [MTL-PHI] Pacioretty for Sanheim + 3rd

[Starat327]

how many game does sanheim has at the highest level? oh yeah, 0! im not saying he isnt a good prospect. But he's a prospect.

its always the same with habs player. they suck until the minute they leave Montreal, remember Subban? yeah that guy wasnt a top10 Dman in the league, Weber was top3? It went the way around pretty fast after the trade amirite?

Chucky is so underrated on these board and trust me im far from being a Homer.

Sure, he could not pan out. But after watching him since his draft year, I think thats relatively unlikely at this point. Likewise, a similar level prospect of yours just got a first line winger like Galchenyuk, so its not as far-fetched as you want to believe.

I never said that Galchenyuk wasn't a good player. You can go back to the umpteen million flyers and habs threads and look, i think Galchenyuk is a very good player. But he doesnt fit a need in Philadelphia like Sanheim does (even if Sanheim can be 'replaced' by Ghost). Save your 'No one likes montreal players' complaints for when people actually speak poorly of them - that hasn't been done here.

 

[Tripod]

thats cause you dont know how good chucky is.

Love this type of comment. It's like you think people don't watch other teams play.

For the 100th time, context. The Flyers are building for LONG TERM. Trading a long term cost controlled asset for a SHORT TERM SIGNED guy like Chucky or MaxP makes no sense for Philly. Look at the Schenn trade as an example of wharpt Hextall is doing. Then when you see that the Flyers need to fix their defense, this kind of trade makes even less sense.

And in the flip side, Montreal trading NOW pieces for futures makes no sense when they are trying to win with Price, Weber, MaxP as core players.

 

[ponder719]

how many game does sanheim has at the highest level? oh yeah, 0! im not saying he isnt a good prospect. But he's a prospect.

If that's a concern, then we have the deal for you. You want a center? We'll offer you Jori Lehtera, a 218-game veteran of the NHL, and in exchange it'll just cost you Noah Juulsen. He hasn't even gotten in any games at the highest level! What a bargain!

...

Do you see how ridiculous this argument is?

 

[HOPE]

Love this type of comment. It's like you think people don't watch other teams play.

For the 100th time, context. The Flyers are building for LONG TERM. Trading a long term cost controlled asset for a SHORT TERM SIGNED guy like Chucky or MaxP makes no sense for Philly. Look at the Schenn trade as an example of wharpt Hextall is doing. Then when you see that the Flyers need to fix their defense, this kind of trade makes even less sense.

And in the flip side, Montreal trading NOW pieces for futures makes no sense when they are trying to win with Price, Weber, MaxP as core players.

yeah i forgot that Chucky was 73 year old. Your prospect pool going foward is much worst than you Dman group. its funny that we're actually arguing about a deal that we both dont want to happen. you might feel that it doesnt make sense for the flyers, but it makes much for sense for them than for the habs, Chucky clearly holds more value than sanheim ( AT THIS POINT), not wanting to do the trade is one thing, but denying the facts is an other.

You're top4 best prospects hold 3 young Dman and you foward group is aging.

Ps: not saying the habs are in a better situation, its probably worst.

 

[HOPE]

If that's a concern, then we have the deal for you. You want a center? We'll offer you Jori Lehtera, a 218-game veteran of the NHL, and in exchange it'll just cost you Noah Juulsen. He hasn't even gotten in any games at the highest level! What a bargain!

...

Do you see how ridiculous this argument is?

i don't, actually, your post actually is.

 

[Starat327]

yeah i forgot that Chucky was 73 year old. Your prospect pool going foward is much worst than you Dman group. its funny that we're actually arguing about a deal that we both dont want to happen. you might feel that it doesnt make sense for the flyers, but it makes much for sense for them than for the habs, Chucky clearly holds more value than sanheim ( AT THIS POINT), not wanting to do the trade is one thing, but denying the facts is an other.

You're top4 best prospects hold 3 young Dman and you foward group is aging.

Ps: not saying the habs are in a better situation, its probably worst.

Youve just clearly defined that you know nothing about the Flyers prospect pool, which is ranked in the top 5 pretty much anywhere you look.

EDIT: Also, chucky is not 'clearly' more valuable if you look objectively at a recent comparable that you should be intimately familiar with. But i see that's a lost cause already, so nevermind.

 

[HOPE]

Youve just clearly defined that you know nothing about the Flyers prospect pool, which is ranked in the top 5 pretty much anywhere you look.

EDIT: Also, chucky is not 'clearly' more valuable if you look objectively at a recent comparable that you should be intimately familiar with. But i see that's a lost cause already, so nevermind.

go ahead a drop me your best top 5 foward. i will counter you with at least 10teams with a better foward pool than the flyers.

 

[phlocky]

yeah i forgot that Chucky was 73 year old. Your prospect pool going foward is much worst than you Dman group. its funny that we're actually arguing about a deal that we both dont want to happen. you might feel that it doesnt make sense for the flyers, but it makes much for sense for them than for the habs, Chucky clearly holds more value than sanheim ( AT THIS POINT), not wanting to do the trade is one thing, but denying the facts is an other.

You're top4 best prospects hold 3 young Dman and you foward group is aging.

Ps: not saying the habs are in a better situation, its probably worst.

Okay, it can be debated but let's call Serg and Sanheim a wash, say they are equal. So who is better/more valuable, Chucky or Druin? Maybe they are a wash but I think most people would take Drouin over Chucky (honestly, he's pretty much a one dimensional player, good in the offensive zone, weak in the other 2).

Basically, if both trades go down the Habs go from Serg and Chucky to Sanheim and Drouin. Personally, I'd take that as a Habs fan.

 

[Starat327]

go ahead a drop me your best top 5 foward. i will counter you with at least 10teams with a better foward pool than the flyers.

I don't expect you to evaluate this objectively, but ill post what our board voted as our top 5 Forwards. I can think of a few teams with better forward prospects, but i doubt the number is much higher, if at all, than 10.

Patrick
Lindblom
Rubstov
Frost
Allison

and FWIW, our Top 4 is comprised of 2 defensemen and 2 forwards, not 3 and 1. But again, i'm not surprised at the misinformation.

 

[Tripod]

yeah i forgot that Chucky was 73 year old. Your prospect pool going foward is much worst than you Dman group. its funny that we're actually arguing about a deal that we both dont want to happen. you might feel that it doesnt make sense for the flyers, but it makes much for sense for them than for the habs, Chucky clearly holds more value than sanheim ( AT THIS POINT), not wanting to do the trade is one thing, but denying the facts is an other.

You're top4 best prospects hold 3 young Dman and you foward group is aging.

Ps: not saying the habs are in a better situation, its probably worst.

CONTRACTS MATTER.

I said before that Chucky being signed to his deal is bad for a team like Philly. They would rather him be a RFA and sign him to a deal that fits our timeline, not the Habs.

Enjoy Chucky for the next 3 years before he leaves.

Thank you for being concerned about the Flyers prospects. But you are wrong again. Our top 5 prospects are Patrick, Sanheim, Lindblom, Myers and Rubstov. This isn't hard to understand...WE NEED TO FIX OUR DEFENSE. Until we have a logjam at the NHL level for Dman, no reason to trade any.

Goalies...are in the pipeline
Dmen...are in the pipeline
Forwards...just went heavy in drafting forwards.

So again, the Flyers are building for LONG TERM. Chucky and his contract is great for a short term team like Montreal. Enjoy him. Hopefully he finally becomes the C you need.

 

[HOPE]

Okay, it can be debated but let's call Serg and Sanheim a wash, say they are equal. So who is better/more valuable, Chucky or Druin? Maybe they are a wash but I think most people would take Drouin over Chucky (honestly, he's pretty much a one dimensional player, good in the offensive zone, weak in the other 2).

Basically, if both trades go down the Habs go from Serg and Chucky to Sanheim and Drouin. Personally, I'd take that as a Habs fan.

Ok will break this down for you.

personnaly:

Sanheim > Sergachev

i'd slightly give the Edge to Drouin over Galchenyuk, because of his edge work and vision. Chucky has a much better shot, has the size and can potentially play Center wich is more valuable. Drouin and Chucky are a wash defensively, both need to work on that aspect.


As for the trade, you realy cant value this trade Value for Value because theres alot of circonstances to this trade and Drouin has alot more pure valuet than sergachev, you have to consider the situation that happened last season, the salary cap, the expension draft. In all honestely Flyers could of been a team to make that Drouin trade, Maybe the bolts value Sergachev more? maybe the flyers didnt call for drouin? maybe they were not interessted. they would be crazy tho.

as for you're Drouin + sanheim vs chucky + sergachev, you cant watch it that way because Galchenyuk has still the potential to play Center wich is our biggest need + we played poker with radulov and lost him. So no going foward losing chuck + radulov and adding sanheim + drouin at the expense of losing radulov, sergachev, chucky is not a smart move.

 

[HOPE]

CONTRACTS MATTER.

I said before that Chucky being signed to his deal is bad for a team like Philly. They would rather him be a RFA and sign him to a deal that fits our timeline, not the Habs.

Enjoy Chucky for the next 3 years before he leaves.

Thank you for being concerned about the Flyers prospects. But you are wrong again. Our top 5 prospects are Patrick, Sanheim, Lindblom, Myers and Rubstov. This isn't hard to understand...WE NEED TO FIX OUR DEFENSE. Until we have a logjam at the NHL level for Dman, no reason to trade any.

Goalies...are in the pipeline
Dmen...are in the pipeline
Forwards...just went heavy in drafting forwards.

So again, the Flyers are building for LONG TERM. Chucky and his contract is great for a short term team like Montreal. Enjoy him. Hopefully he finally becomes the C you need.

Can you not read? im asking about your top 5 forward. i fail to see how you think philly lacks of defensive upcomers vs foward.

Philly clearly lacks Foward prospect for a Rebuilding team, on the other hand the Defense is looking realy bright, wich is why you guys will likely trade a guy in the future.

 

[Starat327]

Ok will break this down for you.

personnaly:

Sanheim > Sergachev

i'd slightly give the Edge to Drouin over Galchenyuk, because of his edge work and vision. Chucky as a much better shot, has the size and can potentially play Center wich is more valuable. Drouin and Chucky are a wash defensively, both need to work on that aspect.


As for the trade, you realy cant value this trade Value for Value because theres alot of circonstances to this trade and Drouin has alot more pure valuet than sergachev, you have to consider the situation that happened last season, the salary cap, the expension draft. In all honestely Flyers could of been a team to make that Drouin trade, Maybe the bolts value Sergachev more? maybe the flyers didnt call for drouin? maybe they were not interessted. they would be crazy tho.

as for you're Drouin + sanheim vs chucky + sergachev, you cant watch it that way because Galchenyuk as still the potential to play Center wich is our bigger need + we played poker with radulov and lost him. So no going foward losing chuck + radulov and adding sanheim + drouin at the expense of losing radulov, sergachev, chucky is not a smart move.

Why is Radulov being factored in to this? You traded Sergachev for Drouin, now the 'rumor' is you offered Galchenyuk for Sanheim in some capacity (i dont believe it was offered).

So which is your preference - to make neither trade, and keep Sergachev and Galchenyuk, or to have Drouin and Sanheim. Unless theres an interview where Radulov says he left because they were trading Sergachev, its a non factor. You just said you feel Sanheim was > Sergachev, and that Drouin was > than Galchenyuk - so on pure value alone, Sanheim > Galchenyuk.

Now team value is a whole different issue, and i can understand why you want to keep Galchenyuk to play center. His value to your team is greater, and that is fair.

 

[HOPE]

Why is Radulov being factored in to this? You traded Sergachev for Drouin, now the 'rumor' is you offered Galchenyuk for Sanheim in some capacity (i dont believe it was offered).

So which is your preference - to make neither trade, and keep Sergachev and Galchenyuk, or to have Drouin and Sanheim. Unless theres an interview where Radulov says he left because they were trading Sergachev, its a non factor. You just said you feel Sanheim was > Sergachev, and that Drouin was > than Galchenyuk - so on pure value alone, Sanheim > Galchenyuk.

Now team value is a whole different issue, and i can understand why you want to keep Galchenyuk to play center. His value to your team is greater, and that is fair.

You just answered your own question.


and you literally didnt read what i said if you come to the conclusion where my point would mean sanheim > Galchenyuk. Because you CANT put a value on the Drouin vs Sergachev trade, because it would have never happened if the expension draft wasnt there.

Hence you cant take the fact that i said Drouin > Galchenyuk and sanheim > sergachev

 

[Starat327]

You just answered your own question.

No, it doesnt. We were discussing a trade of Drouin for Sergachev and a potential trade of Galchenyuk for Sanheim, and you brought up a Free agent leaving.

It makes no sense because it has no bearing on the trades that were brought up. Did Radulov not re-sign because montreal traded his compatriot Sergachev? then i could see it tying in somehow. But unless you can prove that Radulov leaving was somehow tied to that trade, its inconsequential for the sake of this discussion.

 

[HOPE]

No, it doesnt. We were discussing a trade of Drouin for Sergachev and a potential trade of Galchenyuk for Sanheim, and you brought up a Free agent leaving.

It makes no sense because it has no bearing on the trades that were brought up. Did Radulov not re-sign because montreal traded his compatriot Sergachev? then i could see it tying in somehow. But unless you can prove that Radulov leaving was somehow tied to that trade, its inconsequential for the sake of this discussion.

i will be 100% honest i dont get you're point where you say the radulov didnt resign because sergachev was traded, i never said that, Either your misread what i said or i expressed myself badly, so let me try and settle this down for you.

Drouin > Galchenyuk by not much

Sanheim > Sergachev ( my opinion )

Does not mean Sanheim > Galchenyuk, because the Drouin, Sergachev trade cant be valued, too many unsual factors! salary cap, expansion draft, player and team conflict.

Sanheim vs Galchenyuk is very bad because:

-Montreals biggest need = Center and Chucky, believe it or not as still potential to be one, He won't be the first 1C with a poor Faceoff % and defensive defiency as a youngter.

-Losing Radulov because of poor management would hurt even more trading Chucky to fil a hole that you're not even sure its gonna be covered ( sanheim as potential but is still a prospect)

 

[Tripod]

Can you not read? im asking about your top 5 forward. i fail to see how you think philly lacks of defensive upcomers vs foward.

Philly clearly lacks Foward prospect for a Rebuilding team, on the other hand the Defense is looking realy bright, wich is why you guys will likely trade a guy in the future.

Ummm...I responded to this comment where you said our top 4 prosoects had 3 Dmen. I responded by showing our top 5 prosoects only have 2 Dmen. Or did you forget you wrote this?

yeah i forgot that Chucky was 73 year old. Your prospect pool going foward is much worst than you Dman group. its funny that we're actually arguing about a deal that we both dont want to happen. you might feel that it doesnt make sense for the flyers, but it makes much for sense for them than for the habs, Chucky clearly holds more value than sanheim ( AT THIS POINT), not wanting to do the trade is one thing, but denying the facts is an other.

You're top4 best prospects hold 3 young Dman and you foward group is aging.

Ps: not saying the habs are in a better situation, its probably worst.

This isn't a hard concept, Hextall is building from the net out. The goalies and D are in place and now he is filling up the forward cupboard.

Hextall just traded Schenn for picks. If he was so concerned about "today", he would not have done that deal. He is building for the future....not just the next few years.

Lindblom Giroux Voracek
Weal Patrick Konecny
Filppula Couts Simmonds

Our top 9 is fine and only 1 leaves after this coming year so it's not like we have these big holes to fill.

Maybe Montreal should focus on keeping Chucky at C to fix their depth there. Or are you fine with Danault, Plecs and Shaw again as your top 3 C?

 

[TheStatican]

Isn't Sanheim one of the best d prospects in the league and isn't Max Patioready a regular-season only type player?

You know, you need to actually make the playoffs in order to do something in them. And you do realize he is the second highest scoring winger in the NHL over the last 6 years behind only Alex Ovechkin right?

 

[Starat327]

i will be 100% honest i dont get you're point where you say the radulov didnt resign because sergachev was traded, i never said that, Either your misread what i said or i expressed myself badly, so let me try and settle this down for you.

Drouin > Galchenyuk by not much

Sanheim > Sergachev ( my opinion )

Does not mean Sanheim > Galchenyuk, because the Drouin, Sergachev trade cant be valued, too many unsual factors! salary cap, expansion draft, player and team conflict.

Sanheim vs Galchenyuk is very bad because:

-Montreals biggest need = Center and Chucky, believe it or not as still potential to be one, He won't be the first 1C with a poor Faceoff % and defensive defiency as a youngter.

-Losing Radulov because of poor management would hurt even more trading Chucky to fil a hole that you're not even sure its gonna be covered ( sanheim as potential but is still a prospect)

I didnt say Radulov didnt resign because Sergachev left, im just not sure why in a discussion of two trades that are relatively tied together, you brought in an x factor of Radulov. My only feasible solution to bring Radulov in to it was that you felt like your lost Radulov due to Sergachev not being there, which doesnt appear to be the case. You were going to lose Radulov anyway, so you cant factor that in to the comparisson. I get that afterwards it makes it harder to deal from your forward group, but thats a 'sunk' cost at this point, and using it to value one side of the trade heavier is a bit misleading, since it technically affects both sides. One could argue Drouin replaces Radulov, so bringing in Sanheim for Galchenyuk is just adding to a pretty thin D prospect pool.

Agreed that you shouldnt trade Galchenyuk though. You need to hope he can pan out as a C and not. Flyers won't value him as a C because he wouldnt play C here - hed be pushed to Giroux's wing, most likely. It'd be between him and Lindblom for top line LW duties. We wont value him as a C, and Montreal shouldn't sell him as a Winger. It doesnt make sense for them.

Much like every other proposal that gets lumped between these two - its something neither side should so because it doesnt match up with the other teams needs. Could we use a LW like Galchenyuk? sure. But we need to fix our D first. Likewise, Montreal could use a top young LHD prospect, but not at the expense of what could be their 1C.

 

[HOPE]

Ummm...I responded to this comment where you said our top 4 prosoects had 3 Dmen. I responded by showing our top 5 prosoects only have 2 Dmen. Or did you forget you wrote this?



This isn't a hard concept, Hextall is building from the net out. The goalies and D are in place and now he is filling up the forward cupboard.

Hextall just traded Schenn for picks. If he was so concerned about "today", he would not have done that deal. He is building for the future....not just the next few years.

Lindblom Giroux Voracek
Weal Patrick Konecny
Filppula Couts Simmonds

Our top 9 is fine and only 1 leaves after this coming year so it's not like we have these big holes to fill.

Maybe Montreal should focus on keeping Chucky at C to fix their depth there. Or are you fine with Danault, Plecs and Shaw again as your top 3 C?

now tell me how simmonds ( if resign ), Giroux and voracek will be relevant ( at such a high price) once you're d core is ready to perform. i sure hope hextall as plan to finish bottom 5 in the next 4 years or else its not gonna look good.


And hell no im not good with danault, plek and shaw as our top 3 c, wich is WHY my point is Galchenyuk for sanheim would be a disaster.

and yeah i just said my opinion on the flyers wich can sound harsh, but dont get me wrong montreal is in no better situation.

 

[Starat327]

You know, you need to actually make the playoffs in order to do something in them. And you do realize he is the second highest scoring winger in the NHL over the last 6 years behind only Alex Ovechkin right?

Yeah, i dont get the MaxPac hate. Hes a great player, just not a fit for what the flyers are doing, and certainly not at the cost of our top defensive prospects. that being said, Montreal shouldnt be moving him unless it addresses their real need, a true 1C.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I don't expect you to evaluate this objectively, but ill post what our board voted as our top 5 Forwards. I can think of a few teams with better forward prospects, but i doubt the number is much higher, if at all, than 10.

Patrick
Lindblom
Rubstov
Frost
Allison

and FWIW, our Top 4 is comprised of 2 defensemen and 2 forwards, not 3 and 1. But again, i'm not surprised at the misinformation.

I'm still putting Konecny in that group of prospects since he just turned 20.

 

[Starat327]

now tell me how simmonds ( if resign ), Giroux and voracek will be relevant ( at such a high price) once you're d core is ready to perform. i sure hope hextall as plan to finish bottom 5 in the next 4 years or else its not gonna look good.


And hell no im not good with danault, plek and shaw as our top 3 c, wich is WHY my point is Galchenyuk for sanheim would be a disaster.

and yeah i just said my opinion on the flyers wich can sound harsh, but dont get me wrong montreal is in no better situation.

The Flyers havent finished bottom 5 since 2007, and before that i honestly cant even remember it. Our forward group is not in nearly as dire shape as you seem to think. Ill try to explain for you.

giroux is a 1C, and with the addition of Patrick, we shouldnt be a one trick pony anymore. Teams will have to play more than one line, so that should help his points. Even if it doesnt, he still shelters Patrick and lets him learn the ropes. In 2-3 Years, Patrick takes over as 1C, and giroux slides to 2C, which is a pretty good option. Couturier continues to play 3C.

Down the Road, if Frost or Rubstov develop into middle 6 Cs as well, we can move Giroux to RW where he plays very well.

Our board is relatively split on Simmonds. Great player and i love him, but his next contract could be deadly for a 30 year old power forward. Its no guarantee he'll be around. Konecny can shift back overto his natural side on the RW.

Voracek plays a smart game, and will likely continue to be productive for several years. Hes the person im least concerned about. He trained with Jagr while Jagr was here, and took a lot of his mannerisms. I think hell keep himself in good shape.

So even in 3 years, we could Still be

Lindblom - Patrick - Voracek
Frost - Giroux - Konecny (not actual lines, just as an idea)

With both couturier and Rubstov around, as well as Ratcliffe, and plenty of good looking bottom 6'ers to choose from (allison, NAK, etc.). The Flyers are in no risk of being 'bad' in the forward department, and thats with me probably forgetting a guy or two.

We also have 2 firsts next year (Ours and Blues), and if we trade simmonds next year, will get at least one more back for an additional one in 2019.

Really, we appreciate your concern about our poor forward outlook, but i assure you, we're in good hands.

 

[Starat327]

I'm still putting Konecny in that group of prospects since he just turned 20.

Hes played a full NHL season, i dont consider him a prospect anymore. Same reason why Provorov isnt a prospect anymore. They still have to develop some, but they aren't prospects, IMO.

 

[HOPE]

I didnt say Radulov didnt resign because Sergachev left, im just not sure why in a discussion of two trades that are relatively tied together, you brought in an x factor of Radulov. My only feasible solution to bring Radulov in to it was that you felt like your lost Radulov due to Sergachev not being there, which doesnt appear to be the case. You were going to lose Radulov anyway, so you cant factor that in to the comparisson. I get that afterwards it makes it harder to deal from your forward group, but thats a 'sunk' cost at this point, and using it to value one side of the trade heavier is a bit misleading, since it technically affects both sides. One could argue Drouin replaces Radulov, so bringing in Sanheim for Galchenyuk is just adding to a pretty thin D prospect pool.

Agreed that you shouldnt trade Galchenyuk though. You need to hope he can pan out as a C and not. Flyers won't value him as a C because he wouldnt play C here - hed be pushed to Giroux's wing, most likely. It'd be between him and Lindblom for top line LW duties. We wont value him as a C, and Montreal shouldn't sell him as a Winger. It doesnt make sense for them.

Much like every other proposal that gets lumped between these two - its something neither side should so because it doesnt match up with the other teams needs. Could we use a LW like Galchenyuk? sure. But we need to fix our D first. Likewise, Montreal could use a top young LHD prospect, but not at the expense of what could be their 1C.

I think we will end this conversation about the radulov thing because i either fail to make you understand my point or you dont understand it!

you indeed have alot of point in comment with me in this post but i still think the flyers will have to trade a good defensive piece to bring offense in the near future, your Dman prospects is alot better than you think and your foward prosect group is not good as you think. Maybe Galchenyuk isnt the answers for your guys, either you dont like the guy, havent seen him play or the contract is bad and would make sense (is it bad).

Yeah, i dont get the MaxPac hate. Hes a great player, just not a fit for what the flyers are doing, and certainly not at the cost of our top defensive prospects. that being said, Montreal shouldnt be moving him unless it addresses their real need, a true 1C.

the reason he's getting hated is because people dont understand the player he is.

Pacioretty is the PURE definition of an Elite Complimentary winger. he doesnt control the play, He's amazing on the counter rush, south-north, Elite shot. Poor puck control, flashes of playmaking abilities (not constant), good defensively. can't control the paced of a game but will he's a constant 30G scorer because he's that good on the counter rush. Why does he doesnt perform in the playoffs? Poor playmaking center to compliment him, why cant he score on the counter rush in the playoffs, he did have a couple of chances, post, huge saves. but mainly because the playoffs game is much more tight defensively and he's being watch alot more and he has no one to feed him.

Is it his fault. Not realy because its the type of player he is and stats checker and homers cant see that