Moving on from Jones?

[Pinkfloyd]

Not going to disagree about Fleury but more a general thought. How do you define if a goalie is elite? I mean, a good team defense can make almost any goalie appear elite. In that case would we only be able to say that an elite goalie plays on defensively poor teams?

I agree. I am more of the belief that the goaltending tends to reflect the play of the skaters in front of them more than anything else. There are some exceptions to this and it'd be great to have that kind of goalie but it's not needed to win a Cup. I mean look at Holtby last year when the Caps won it. Dude was mediocre to put it kindly during the season. Got benched to start the playoffs and was good enough but not really elite to win it all. I think the Sharks have the pieces if they're utilized correctly. I will never understand the purpose of putting Burns and Karlsson out there together in the defensive zone at evens unless it's late and they're down but DeBoer decided it was a good idea a couple times and has been burned by it.

 

[LeftHeartInSF]

Playing catch-up most games sucks.

Funny, we usually score the first goal.

 

[rideaucrusher21]

Jones has been abysmal, bad, horrible, etc. through the first few games of the year. Hi gsaa is 2nd worst in the league. That said, I think you roll with him and Dell, and just hope he emerges from this funk. I don’t think his recent play is representative of what we can expect over the rest of the season. I think he’s at least an average goalie.

If he’s still near the bottom of the barrel at the tdl, I’d look at making a similar trade that netted the Sharks Reimer a couple years back. Even a below average starter would be an upgrade over Jones’ recent play.

 

[Evincar]

I guess Fleury doesn't count?

Given how boom or bust his play has been throughout his career, I wouldnt consider him one.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Save us Josef Korenar

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

In his last 7 starts, Martin Jones is 6-0-1 with a .909 SV% and a 2.57 GAA.

On the season, 7-3-1 with a .899 SV% and a 2.72.

I don’t think there is another goaltender in the NHL whose team is carrying them like that right now. I would guess that every other starting goaltender whose SV% is below .900 is close to the 3s in GAA with a points percentage much lower than Jones’ 68%.

 

[Coily]

I mean Calgary's goalies (Mike Smith) have worse stats, but Jones has been a dumpster fire and his new contract just started to add insult to injury.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I mean Calgary's goalies (Mike Smith) have worse stats, but Jones has been a dumpster fire and his new contract just started to add insult to injury.

Yeah but Smith’s points percentage is trash as well. Calgary has a solid points percentage as a whole because Rittich is 4-1-0 in 5 starts with a .927 SV%.

 

[hockeyball]

Jones has get to improve. I think he's just having a really rough transition to the new pads honestly. Plus I think the slow start is in his head and his confidence is a mess. I think he'll work it out, I think he'll be better as the season goes on, but the team can only wait so long. He's too big a cap hit, and too big a factor in the teams success to just hope he works it out in an all in year like this. Dell really isn't inspiring much confidence either, so I wouldn't be shocked to see the Sharks trade for another tender, or at least start calling up some guys to give them a shot soon if Jones doesn't turn it around pretty soon.

 

[stator]

Nope. He's not an elite goalie. And honestly, neither are Bob or Rask. Don't know why anyone would go through the hassle of acquiring them when the team's defense and coaching are the main problems right now.

The dribble that comes out of your keyboard is absolutely un-amazing.

Rask is tied for 2nd on the all-time career SV% list. Bobrovsky is tied for 8th place on that list.

Do you not know these things? I would love for you to take that opinion on Fluery, Rask, or Bobrovsky not being an elite goaltender out to the main forum here (if you have the guts).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The dribble that comes out of your keyboard is absolutely un-amazing.

Rask is tied for 2nd on the all-time career SV% list. Bobrovsky is tied for 8th place on that list.

Do you not know these things? I would love for you to take that opinion on Fluery, Rask, or Bobrovsky not being an elite goaltender out to the main forum here (if you have the guts).

Rask hasn't been elite in like five years. Bob is a regular season goalie that folds under pressure. Dude has a sub-.900 playoff save percentage in 24 games. Do you not know these things?

 

[5H4RK5]

He was great against Dallas only gave up 2 goals the other 2 were defensive lapses. Dillon always passes without looking every few games and our guys keep skating backwards on D in a S formation oddly enough. )

 

[SjMilhouse]

I just don't understand why he can't stop these point blank grade A+++ scoring chances every single time. He is washed up trash

I don't think Jones is a top 5 goalie by any means but it's hilarious how many people think he's trash when the defense has been a dumpster fire all year. He let in a few soft goals early in the season but has played pretty well since then...unfortunately those few soft goals now means that any time he gives up any goal people bitch and moan

 

[OffSydes]

Kurz jumping on the narrative

 

[sampler]

jones is fine. He has ups and downs in the regular season, but his postseason play is more importantly, and who can argue with his dominance there?

Jones will be fine. It's annoying that he isnt playing better, but it's not a huge deal. Karlsson is a much bigger problem, and a much bigger question mark.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

jones is fine. He has ups and downs in the regular season, but his postseason play is more importantly, and who can argue with his dominance there?

Jones will be fine. It's annoying that he isnt playing better, but it's not a huge deal. Karlsson is a much bigger problem, and a much bigger question mark.

Please stop exaggerating. Karlsson is not a problem nor a question mark.

 

[Wedontneedroads]

He almost got us to a game 7 of a Stanley Cup Final in which we had no business even getting to game 6.

Holding off judgement til the end of the season.

 

[SactoShark]

I'm not pleased with Jones’ play at all, but I want to see what happens when the Sharks play a single game without allowing a dozen high-danger scoring chances.

 

[WSS11]

Jones has the ability to be elite, we saw it in the cup run. This year, he’s had some good and bad games but hasn’t stole a game like we’ve seen him do in the past. It’s not all his fault with the guys in front of him leaving him out to dry at times. However, Jones has not had a game this season like Dell did vs Carolina. He absolutely stole a point for us that night when we had no business getting one and I have zero doubt that Jones wouldn’t have. I’m not saying trade Jones but I am saying if Dell is going to be at that level then we need to reward him with more starts.

 

[LeftHeartInSF]

When the defense tightens up, Jones will too. A lot of the criticism is a bit heavy. Most of the goals against I've been blaming our D more than our goalie.

 

[Ronnie Residue]

Honestly if he can just get to average for the season, then bring out playoff jones mode, I’m content.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Honestly if he can just get to average for the season, then bring out playoff jones mode, I’m content.

I think pretty much everybody feels this way at this point. The bar has been set much lower for Jones than it was when we first got him. The issue is that he is not even average for the season.

 

[PackShark]

He almost got us to a game 7 of a Stanley Cup Final in which we had no business even getting to game 6.

Holding off judgement til the end of the season.

We were eliminated in 6 games. He stood on his head in game 5 to get us there.

 

[Bleedred]

His contract isn't good, but because of term (cap hit is fine for now), so I don't think any other team is gonna take him.

You don't need an elite goaltender to win the cup anymore, like back in 95-03 when at least one of Brodeur, Roy, Hasek and Belfour were playing in the SCF every year the Red Wings weren't in it and even a couple times when they were.

Even Martin Jones made the cup finals and wasn't elite, though it was his best season as a Shark and he had a great playoffs.

As some of you may know, I've been doing a little study. I'm watching every goal that was scored around the league on every goalie this year. I currently only have Martin Jones down for 8 stoppable goals out of 34 allowed this year, which isn't terrible like his save percentage would suggest. I think an average goalie probably allows a stoppable goal on one out of every 4 goals allowed, so about 25%. So as long as Jones maintains this and the stoppable goal percentage doesn't increase, I expect that number to progress to the mean and for him to finish the season around where he has been, around .915% or so, which is average. That's what he has been as a Shark. Could be a little better, could be a little worse, but I don't think he'll maintain .893% all season.

With how early in the year it is and being that he's still only played just 12 games, Jones could have one hot week with a shutout and a couple one goal against games, maybe some where the team bleeds shots and he stops most of them, and be back to his career average/NHL league average in just a few more games.

One thing I do have to say in his defense (no pun intended), because the Sharks don't allow many shots, Jones will probably have a lower save percentage on the Sharks than he would on a team like the Ducks, who allow a ton of shots. I don't think it would be as high as John Gibson's if he were their starter, as I don't think Jones as good as John Gibson, but I think the lack of shots could make for a decrease of a few points in save percentage.

 

[Bleedred]

I was actually not happy with Jones play in the Vegas series last year. I think he did poorly on the eye test and if you take away the save percentage from the sweep against Anaheim, he had a poor series on paper against Vegas as well. I remember a couple poor goals early in game 1, at least one in game 2 where he got the win, game 3 he didn't play as bad as the score indicated. Game 4 he got a shutout, but I remember him allowing 1-2 poor ones in game 5 and I thought he could have had both the goals in game 6, which didn't matter because it was a shutout.