More points this season Crosby vs Ovi

[TheGuiminator]

Don’t you think Crosby’s ‘07 should maybe take a bit of a back seat considered he had half his points on the PP that year and was in a significantly higher scoring era? Your right it’s impressive considering how young he was.

It’s funny how everyone try to discredit Crosby’s 06/07 season because he scored half of his points on the PP. Having more Powerplay in a season does help, but doesn’t guarantee one will benefit from it. You still need to score those damn points, they don’t magically appear on the scoresheet.

Mario Lemieux scored almost half of his points (49%) on the PP in the 95/96, do we hear people discredit his offense production for that season? Of course not

 

[authentic]

So then Guenztel was better than Ovechkin as well?

That’s weird....do you honestly believe many Crosby fans would use the same logic if Ovechkin had 21 points in 12 games while Crosby went on to win a cup and Smythe? Doubt it.

I would be shocked to see Ovechkin get that many points more so to be honest. Guentzel also played with Crosby constantly so I wonder who benefitted from who most there. Last season Ovechkin was slightly better in the regular season though, at best.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

You clearly just said you don’t like the whole goals>>>assists we are “spewing”, yet that’s exactly the one aspect you have been arguing with me about that made Ovechkin better than Crosby last season, something that you just said you don’t mind admitting.

Yeah if Ovechkin didn’t win the smythe it be different. I see through Ovechkins totals. He is greatly helped by his linemates. Ovechkin doesn’t drive play anymore. He’s incapable of it.

 

[authentic]

I think Crosby would have to outscore Ovechkin by bare minimum 25 points before they’d admit he had a better season. If the season ended today the 6 points surely wouldn’t be enough

True. They must've not thought they were remotely close between 2007-10 then, which they most certainly were.

 

[GreatGonzo]

It’s funny how everyone try to discredit Crosby’s 06/07 season because he scored half of his points on the PP. Having more Powerplay in a season does help, but doesn’t guarantee one will benefit from it. You still need to score those damn points, they don’t magically appear on the scoresheet.

Mario Lemieux scored almost half of his points (49%) on the PP in the 95/96, do we hear people discredit his offense production for that season? Of course not

Discredit is a harsh word. I just don’t see as as a “strong” enough candidate for one of his top seasons. Again, his age alone makes it an amazing season, but I would actually put that season behind his 2014 and 2010, maybe even his 2009.

Lemieux also scored 161 points in 70 games. Outside of himself, that was the most since Gretzky in ‘87(183). He out scored Jagr by 12 and Sakic by 41. Sure, the PP was a big help, but the dominance cannot be compared. Lemieux was clearly superior.

 

[GreatGonzo]

True. They must've not thought they were remotely close between 2007-10 then, which they most certainly were.

Why do you continue bringing up nonesense like that? What’s your point? I believe most, if not all would agree Ovechkin was better from 2007-10, while Crosby gained significantly more ground in 2011 and on. Of course it was close, don’t be that guy.

 

[K Fleur]

Conveniently you left out the number of games played 2012-2013

He also left out that Ovechkin has 95 more goals than Crosby in that time period. (That's 3 years worth of goals by Crosby standards.)

Both of these "left out" statistics hold minimal relevance to both this thread, and the "answer" I provided.

@Midnight Judges you know I don't give a f*** about your Goals vs Assists crusade. Wasting your time quoting me on anything related to that.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I would be shocked to see Ovechkin get that many points more so to be honest. Guentzel also played with Crosby constantly so I wonder who benefitted from who most there. Last season Ovechkin was slightly better in the regular season though, at best.

And Guenztel actuallt out scored Crosby, having one more goal with the same amount of points. Besides, your saying Crosby having significantly more points after two rounds makes it close, yet I bring up Guenztel and you decide to back track.

Never thought I’d see the day a Crosby fan would say 21 points in 12 games after getting bounced in the second round was better than 15 goals, 27 points with a cup and Smythe win. Crosby will always get the nod. So much blinded love.

Yeah if Ovechkin didn’t win the smythe it be different. I see through Ovechkins totals. He is greatly helped by his linemates. Ovechkin doesn’t drive play anymore. He’s incapable of it.

Crosby finished 3rd on his own team that year and 2nd to his winger in the playoffs. Remember that next time you bring up the idiotic “linemates” argument. Crosby doesn’t get to the post season without Malkin and Kessel last year. Both out played him, many just couldn’t handle it and disguised his lack of with comments like “he wasn’t trying!” “He doesn’t care about the regular season!”

Besides a majority of Crosby’s points were against a rather weak Philly team defensively. He had 13
Points against them, then had 8 against the caps. Crosby has always had very strong stats against the first round opponent, while his stats and PPG decreases as he advances(that’s most players, not saying it makes him bad).

 

[wetcoast]

Ovechkin finishes 4th in scoring in ‘15, being 6 points back from first while Crosby’s last contention had him 2nd in points and 11 points back from first.

Funny when Alex was tied for 4th in 14-15 that you fail to mention Crosby who was 3rd with 3 more points in 4 less games.

Ovechkin was never in serious contention that year for the art ross while Crosby actually was which you totally glossed over as well.

14-15 was a weird year, Datsyuk was doing well and then had injuries, Tyler Segiun had 77 points in 71 games, Malkin was injured.

So let’s recap, 4 years isn’t 9, and being 6 points away from the leader is a lot closer than 11, or in your words...”more serious.”

The point of the matter is that Ovechkin isn't the same player he was in his 3 year peak when one could expect him to be in the Art Ross race since 2009-2010 when he was 2nd with 109 points then he has been

10-11 7th with 85 points (Crosby was the runaway leader then injured after his 41st game)
11-12 tied for 37th with 65 points (Crosby had 37 points in 22 games)
12-13 3rd with 56 points (actually tied with Crosby who played in 12 less games)
13-14 8th with 79 points (Crosby was 1st by 17 points)
14-15 4th with 81 points again never really in the Art Ross race (Crosby was 3rd)
16-17 20th tied with 4 others with 69 points (Crosby was 2nd BTW)
17-18 11th (Crosby was 10th)
18-19 tied for 17th (Crosby is tied for 10)

that was going into tonights games, Sid has climbed to 8th spot

Now if you would have said that Crosby has more RECENT seasons being somewhat an Art Ross contender, then yes. But you didn’t. In fact you didn’t say anything factual at all.

Try again.

Actually I stand by my argument despite that 4th place finish he was never truly in the race.

Even if you want to die on that hill that's still 1 year out of 9, it's pretty clear Ovechkin isn't an Art Ross threat like he was in his 3 year peak.

The reason why is pretty clear as in the last 8 years high assists high is 38, 36 then 28.

He has 27 this year so he might get to 38 assists but scoring is up and 27 assists right now has him tied for 77th.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Funny when Alex was tied for 4th in 14-15 that you fail to mention Crosby who was 3rd with 3 more points in 4 less games.

Ovechkin was never in serious contention that year for the art ross while Crosby actually was which you totally glossed over as well.

14-15 was a weird year, Datsyuk was doing well and then had injuries, Tyler Segiun had 77 points in 71 games, Malkin was injured.




The point of the matter is that Ovechkin isn't the same player he was in his 3 year peak when one could expect him to be in the Art Ross race since 2009-2010 when he was 2nd with 109 points then he has been

10-11 7th with 85 points (Crosby was the runaway leader then injured after his 41st game)
11-12 tied for 37th with 65 points (Crosby had 37 points in 22 games)
12-13 3rd with 56 points (actually tied with Crosby who played in 12 less games)
13-14 8th with 79 points (Crosby was 1st by 17 points)
14-15 4th with 81 points again never really in the Art Ross race (Crosby was 3rd)
16-17 20th tied with 4 others with 69 points (Crosby was 2nd BTW)
17-18 11th (Crosby was 10th)
18-19 tied for 17th (Crosby is tied for 10)

that was going into tonights games, Sid has climbed to 8th spot




Actually I stand by my argument despite that 4th place finish he was never truly in the race.

Even if you want to die on that hill that's still 1 year out of 9, it's pretty clear Ovechkin isn't an Art Ross threat like he was in his 3 year peak.

The reason why is pretty clear as in the last 8 years high assists high is 38, 36 then 28.

He has 27 this year so he might get to 38 assists but scoring is up and 27 assists right now has him tied for 77th.

I didn’t fail to do anything I used his most recent which was 2017 where he was 11 points back. Ovechkin and him were only 3 points apart that year, both were right there. I was debunking his crazy notion that Ovechkin hasn’t been close in 9 years. Last time I checked 6 points is close.

You can determine your own definition of “serious”, but in the end the most recent serious he was, was 2015. He was 10+ points away in 2016 and 2017. On paper it looks closer than it was. Once again, spot picking where you want and not actually reading.

I didn’t read anything you just posted after your first two paragraphs. Your arguing something I’m not and making points that I never disputed. I never said was in contention for the Art Ross, only that his most recent “serous” one wasn’t 9 years ago. I’m happy to have seen you waste so much time typing out all that egotistical crap that I never argued with in the first place. It truly shows where your head is at, and it’s definitely not here....because if you actuallt paid attention and didn’t simply chime in randomly because you felt the need to defend something that was never disputed, maybe go take a walk or something. Get some fresh air.

Also, last time I checked it’s easier to pack on assists than to be the best goal scorer in the league. Maybe that’s just me, but again no one can tell you that Crosby is inferior in any way. He’s the best at everything regardless.

 

[wetcoast]

And Guenztel actuallt out scored Crosby, having one more goal with the same amount of points. Besides, your saying Crosby having significantly more points after two rounds makes it close, yet I bring up Guenztel and you decide to back track.

The secret is out Guentzal carried Crosby last year right?

Never thought I’d see the day a Crosby fan would say 21 points in 12 games after getting bounced in the second round was better than 15 goals, 27 points with a cup and Smythe win. Crosby will always get the nod. So much blinded love.

And you still haven't as you tried to pin that on me which I never stated so how about sticking with the facts instead of making things up here?

Crosby finished 3rd on his own team that year and 2nd to his winger in the playoffs. Remember that next time you bring up the idiotic “linemates” argument. Crosby doesn’t get to the post season without Malkin and Kessel last year. Both out played him, many just couldn’t handle it and disguised his lack of with comments like “he wasn’t trying!” “He doesn’t care about the regular season!”

He was first on his team with a 55.9 CF%, Malkin and Kessel were well back despite better zone starts and actually playing together as ES.

Aslo this is how they finished in scoring

Malkin 98
Kessel 92
Crosby 89
Guentzel 48 points

The extra points for Malkin and Kessel were basically on the PP as this is their ES scoring

Malkin 60
Crosby 51
Kessel 50

Again Malkin and Kessel largely played together at ES with better zone starts, they hardly outplayed Crosby.

Besides a majority of Crosby’s points were against a rather weak Philly team defensively. He had 13
Points against them, then had 8 against the caps. Crosby has always had very strong stats against the first round opponent, while his stats and PPG decreases as he advances(that’s most players, not saying it makes him bad).

So he had 8 points in 6 games, what a bum right?

Maybe we should get into a breakdown of Ovechkin's regular season scoring and the weak teams he scored against?

Crosby is now 6 points ahead of Ovechkin in points which is the thread title and he is definitely driving offense alot more than Ovechkin is.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Discredit is a harsh word. I just don’t see as as a “strong” enough candidate for one of his top seasons. Again, his age alone makes it an amazing season, but I would actually put that season behind his 2014 and 2010, maybe even his 2009.

Lemieux also scored 161 points in 70 games. Outside of himself, that was the most since Gretzky in ‘87(183). He out scored Jagr by 12 and Sakic by 41. Sure, the PP was a big help, but the dominance cannot be compared. Lemieux was clearly superior.

How Sid’s 2009 season better ? He took a step back to Ovy and Geno. I don’t see how he was better in that season than 06/07. Same with 2010, took a step back to Ovy and even to Henrik Sedin at some extend. I agree with 13/14, it was probably his best season overall.
He was clearly the best player in the world throughout the whole 06-07 season and doing that as a 19 year old teenager is even more impressive

 

[GreatGonzo]

How Sid’s 2009 season better ? He took a step back to Ovy and Geno. I don’t see how he was better in that season than 06/07. Same with 2010, took a step back to Ovy and even to Henrik Sedin at some extend. I agree with 13/14, it was probably his best season overall.
He was clearly the best player in the world throughout the whole 06-07 season and doing that as a 19 year old teenager is even more impressive

I wouldn’t say he took a step back. Ovechkin was at his peak while Malkin was developing into a dominant center. Crosby just wasn’t as dominant as he was in ‘07 because Malkin and Ovechkin came into their own. Doesn’t mean he, as an individual wasn’t better.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The secret is out Guentzal carried Crosby last year right?



And you still haven't as you tried to pin that on me which I never stated so how about sticking with the facts instead of making things up here?



He was first on his team with a 55.9 CF%, Malkin and Kessel were well back despite better zone starts and actually playing together as ES.

Aslo this is how they finished in scoring

Malkin 98
Kessel 92
Crosby 89
Guentzel 48 points

The extra points for Malkin and Kessel were basically on the PP as this is their ES scoring

Malkin 60
Crosby 51
Kessel 50

Again Malkin and Kessel largely played together at ES with better zone starts, they hardly outplayed Crosby.



So he had 8 points in 6 games, what a bum right?

Maybe we should get into a breakdown of Ovechkin's regular season scoring and the weak teams he scored against?

Crosby is now 6 points ahead of Ovechkin in points which is the thread title and he is definitely driving offense alot more than Ovechkin is.

Never said that. You just enjoy creating arguments out of thin air because you have nothing better to base your opinion off of. It’s ok, your opinion wasn’t strong to begin with. You said Crosby was close to Ovechkin, or even had a better playoff because of production....Guenztel had the same exact production, so he too should be considered close to Ovechkin. You then throw that strawman crap at me.

What does that have to do with the fact that he finished 3rd on his own team in scoring? You can continue to dance around that, but all my point is that it completely throws out the idiotic idea that Ovechkin clearly benefits from his teammates while Crosby has to deal with inferior beings and carries them everywhere. Again, facts. Out scoring someone is out playing them, correct? Same logic
As Crosby being better than Ovechkin in 2018 playoffs because he out scored him in two rounds right? It’s fine, you can’t handle the truth, but the truth is that Crosby wasn’t even the best player on his team that year, Malkin was.

Never called him a bum. There’s that nice strawman again that you have to use to even form an argument. Also never said anything about him being “weak.” Maybe your losing track of all the arguments that your imagination creates because your brain can’t comprehend basic stuff.

Is he now? Ovechkin is leading the league in goals with now 40. That’s a pretty big offensive drive.

 

[wetcoast]

Never said that. You just enjoy creating arguments out of thin air because you have nothing better to base your opinion off of. It’s ok, your opinion wasn’t strong to begin with. You said Crosby was close to Ovechkin, or even had a better playoff because of production....Guenztel had the same exact production, so he too should be considered close to Ovechkin. You then throw that strawman crap at me.

What does that have to do with the fact that he finished 3rd on his own team in scoring? You can continue to dance around that, but all my point is that it completely throws out the idiotic idea that Ovechkin clearly benefits from his teammates while Crosby has to deal with inferior beings and carries them everywhere. Again, facts. Out scoring someone is out playing them, correct?

This is the 3rd time I have to correct you on this as I have never stated that Crosby had a better playoffs than Ovechkin so stop it now or find the quote where I said that, hint you won't because I didn't.

I brought up Crosby's playoffs in 2018 because you asked "what has he done" you made the only reference to Ovechkin

Same logic As Crosby being better than Ovechkin in 2018 playoffs because he out scored him in two rounds right?

Once agin this is an imagined thing that you created as I never said that.

It’s fine, you can’t handle the truth, but the truth is that Crosby wasn’t even the best player on his team that year, Malkin was.

Malkin had more points in the regular season, I went down that breakdown in a previous post his linemate was Malkin they had better offensive starts.

Crosby drove the offense more than Malkin did with CF% (which is an indication of his defensive play as he was 9th in Selke voting, Malkin was nowhere to be found), was much better on faceoffs (53.0 to 43.7).

If you think than more points makes up for those facts then sure Malkin was a better player but that's all based on points nothing else and that's a weak platform.

Never called him a bum.

You are right I exaggerated instead you said this about Crosby

Crosby finished 3rd on his own team that year and 2nd to his winger in the playoffs. Remember that next time you bring up the idiotic “linemates” argument. Crosby doesn’t get to the post season without Malkin and Kessel last year. Both out played him, many just couldn’t handle it and disguised his lack of with comments like “he wasn’t trying!” “He doesn’t care about the regular season!”

He actually didn't finish 2nd in points with his winger in the playoffs they had the same number of points, his winger had more goals.

At least this season it's pretty clear as Crosby leads his team in points as this is all you seem to care about.

There’s that nice strawman again that you have to use to even form an argument. Also never said anything about him being “weak.” Maybe your losing track of all the arguments that your imagination creates because your brain can’t comprehend basic stuff.

No but you are really focused only on points (when is suits your argument as Crosby had 41 more points than his winger in the regular season) and just overlooking everything else.

This is a good time to bring up the fact that Kuznetsov had 5 more points than Ovechkin in the playoffs right?

And while the Capitals had 5 players with 20 or more points in the playoffs but funny you didn't bring that up.

Is he now? Ovechkin is leading the league in goals with now 40. That’s a pretty big offensive drive.

Leading in goals and driving offensive play aren't always the same thing though are they?

Ovechkin is 10th among regular 48.4% full time capitals in CF% with this year.

Last year it was better at 54.1% in the regular season good for 3rd on his team behind a couple of players who are ranked maybe in the 400-500 best player in the league range as overall players but I digress as he was just 3rd like Crosby was in points to Malkin and Kessel.

In the playoffs he had a 52.7% good for 3rd among regulars, as I was fair and took out Burakovsky, who was one of the guys that beat him in the regular season.

Andre played in 13 of the Capitals 24 playoff games.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Crosby finishes 17pts behind the leader: he was in ross contention

Ovechkin finishes 6pts behind the leader: he wasn't in ross contention

Exactly why it's pointless to argue with Crosby fans.

 

[Hippasus]

Funny when Alex was tied for 4th in 14-15 that you fail to mention Crosby who was 3rd with 3 more points in 4 less games.

Ovechkin was never in serious contention that year for the art ross while Crosby actually was which you totally glossed over as well.

14-15 was a weird year, Datsyuk was doing well and then had injuries, Tyler Segiun had 77 points in 71 games, Malkin was injured.




The point of the matter is that Ovechkin isn't the same player he was in his 3 year peak when one could expect him to be in the Art Ross race since 2009-2010 when he was 2nd with 109 points then he has been

10-11 7th with 85 points (Crosby was the runaway leader then injured after his 41st game)
11-12 tied for 37th with 65 points (Crosby had 37 points in 22 games)
12-13 3rd with 56 points (actually tied with Crosby who played in 12 less games)
13-14 8th with 79 points (Crosby was 1st by 17 points)
14-15 4th with 81 points again never really in the Art Ross race (Crosby was 3rd)
16-17 20th tied with 4 others with 69 points (Crosby was 2nd BTW)
17-18 11th (Crosby was 10th)
18-19 tied for 17th (Crosby is tied for 10)

that was going into tonights games, Sid has climbed to 8th spot




Actually I stand by my argument despite that 4th place finish he was never truly in the race.

Even if you want to die on that hill that's still 1 year out of 9, it's pretty clear Ovechkin isn't an Art Ross threat like he was in his 3 year peak.

The reason why is pretty clear as in the last 8 years high assists high is 38, 36 then 28.

He has 27 this year so he might get to 38 assists but scoring is up and 27 assists right now has him tied for 77th.

To add to that, in 15-16 Ovechkin was 15th in league scoring.

 

[wetcoast]

To add to that, in 15-16 Ovechkin was 15th in league scoring.

I was actually hoping that gonzo would bring that up.

Actually it was my bad just totally forgot that year, thanks for covering.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby finishes 17pts behind the leader: he was in ross contention

Ovechkin finishes 6pts behind the leader: he wasn't in ross contention

Exactly why it's pointless to argue with Crosby fans.

Funny I was talking about Ovechkin and the overall trend since his peak and you focus on a single year where he was 10th in scoring and Ovechkin was 11th?

While I think McDavid is the better pure scorer I think crosby might have bridged that gap if he had Leon Draisaitl and Jake Guentzel played with McDavid in 2017-2018.

But yes you are right Ovechkin fans also look at the complete picture....of goals.

 

[GreatGonzo]

This is the 3rd time I have to correct you on this as I have never stated that Crosby had a better playoffs than Ovechkin so stop it now or find the quote where I said that, hint you won't because I didn't.

I brought up Crosby's playoffs in 2018 because you asked "what has he done" you made the only reference to Ovechkin



Once agin this is an imagined thing that you created as I never said that.



Malkin had more points in the regular season, I went down that breakdown in a previous post his linemate was Malkin they had better offensive starts.

Crosby drove the offense more than Malkin did with CF% (which is an indication of his defensive play as he was 9th in Selke voting, Malkin was nowhere to be found), was much better on faceoffs (53.0 to 43.7).

If you think than more points makes up for those facts then sure Malkin was a better player but that's all based on points nothing else and that's a weak platform.



You are right I exaggerated instead you said this about Crosby



He actually didn't finish 2nd in points with his winger in the playoffs they had the same number of points, his winger had more goals.

At least this season it's pretty clear as Crosby leads his team in points as this is all you seem to care about.



No but you are really focused only on points (when is suits your argument as Crosby had 41 more points than his winger in the regular season) and just overlooking everything else.

This is a good time to bring up the fact that Kuznetsov had 5 more points than Ovechkin in the playoffs right?

And while the Capitals had 5 players with 20 or more points in the playoffs but funny you didn't bring that up.



Leading in goals and driving offensive play aren't always the same thing though are they?

Ovechkin is 10th among regular 48.4% full time capitals in CF% with this year.

Last year it was better at 54.1% in the regular season good for 3rd on his team behind a couple of players who are ranked maybe in the 400-500 best player in the league range as overall players but I digress as he was just 3rd like Crosby was in points to Malkin and Kessel.

In the playoffs he had a 52.7% good for 3rd among regulars, as I was fair and took out Burakovsky, who was one of the guys that beat him in the regular season.

Andre played in 13 of the Capitals 24 playoff games.

Then just go right out and say that Ovechkin was better in the playoffs. It’s either or. Don’t see how a Smythe winner isn’t better than someone who only played 2 rounds.....

Don’t recall saying what he “has done” only what did he accomplish that year. Cool, he had 21 points in 12 games.....and left with nothing from the regular season or playoffs. Yet he was better?

Please continue posting numbers that have nothing to do with what I’m talking about. Crosby by the half way mark of that season, he had 36 points in 41 games and was a -12. He ended the next half with 53 points in 41 games and a +12. Kessel and Malkin we’re keeping the Pens afloat while Crosby was busy “not trying,” or whatever excuses came about.

Pretty sure goals break ties....both had 21 points yet Guenztel had one more goal. Usually how it works, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

No, he’s been great this season. Both have. I think it’s close between them, closer than last year.

I never said his winger did I? Kessel and Malkin played with Crosby on the PP and he took full advantage of it. They all did. I never said his winger.

With what context? I’m not the one saying Ovechkin was a beast and lead his team in production did I? You have constantly talked about Crosby’s 21 in 12, yet continue to ignore Guenztel because he was his winger. Completely different argument.

I forgot, CF% is the only source everyone should look at. Nothing else. Your a broken record.

My Point about Crosby finishing 3rd in points is against the posters that say Ovechkin is a product of his line and his center. That he has better linemates while Crosby has to deal with less and does “more.” Both players don’t need elite linemates. Both have shown this.

 

[GreatGonzo]

To add to that, in 15-16 Ovechkin was 15th in league scoring.

I’m amazed how many of you read and say things without actually looking at the context. I guess we can’t all be intelligent.....

Funny I was talking about Ovechkin and the overall trend since his peak and you focus on a single year where he was 10th in scoring and Ovechkin was 11th?

While I think McDavid is the better pure scorer I think crosby might have bridged that gap if he had Leon Draisaitl and Jake Guentzel played with McDavid in 2017-2018.

But yes you are right Ovechkin fans also look at the complete picture....of goals.

who is to say he would mesh well with Draisaitl?

Again, it’s amazing how much you actuallt lack in terms of your own golden boy. You do realize that with linemates, it’s about Chemistry.....right? Crosby didn’t even have good chemistry with Kessel. That’s why they don’t play together. But you seem to think that trading player A with player B would have the same results. Wow.....

I’d rather look at something as objective as goals than to clinge to life to this imaginary overrated “elite” two way play that Crosby suddenly learned after his scoring went down.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I was actually hoping that gonzo would bring that up.

Actually it was my bad just totally forgot that year, thanks for covering.

Why? So you can change your definition of what is and isn’t in the running for the Art Ross?

Last time I checked, 6 was closer than 11 and 4 years wasn’t 9. Basic math.....but again, maybe I’m wasting my breath.

 

[wetcoast]

Then just go right out and say that Ovechkin was better in the playoffs. It’s either or. Don’t see how a Smythe winner isn’t better than someone who only played 2 rounds.....

You keep repeating this false narrative on something I didn't say.

I've pointed it out 3 times already so I will do so again.

you said this

Ovechkin was better last year, I don’t see how it’s debatable. Even the playoffs, Ovechkin walked away with a cup and Smythe, while leading the league in goals in the regular and post season....what did Crosby do?

So I replied with this​

I'm assuming you are from the East coast but in case you missed it Crosby lead his team to game 7 in the second round with a line of 12-9-12-21 plus 7 which was good for a tie for 5th overall along with his linemate Jake Gunztel.

see zero mention of Ovechkin as I was clearly replying to your "what did Crosby do in the playoffs (that was exactly what you were referring to in that sentence.

Don’t recall saying what he “has done” only what did he accomplish that year. Cool, he had 21 points in 12 games.....and left with nothing from the regular season or playoffs. Yet he was better?

Well the quote is up there in bold to help you out and now are you asking for combined regular season and playoff?

If so it's probably pretty close, regular season it was Crosby as I have detailed upthread, playoffs it was Ovechkin

Please continue posting numbers that have nothing to do with what I’m talking about. Crosby by the half way mark of that season, he had 36 points in 41 games and was a -12. He ended the next half with 53 points in 41 games and a +12. Kessel and Malkin we’re keeping the Pens afloat while Crosby was busy “not trying,” or whatever excuses came about.

I guess the part in bold needs to be discounted because he was clutch now?

Well I posted number for the season since you were talking about the season, now this 41 half view and move the goal posts?

Pretty sure goals break ties....both had 21 points yet Guenztel had one more goal. Usually how it works, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

Does it really matter both guys had 21 points and yes that's what Crosby did in the playoffs, which was very impressive right?

I mean what else can you call a 12-9-12-21 plus 7 line in the playoffs?

Any time ever in the NHL?

No, he’s been great this season. Both have. I think it’s close between them, closer than last year.

Who is he and them? If he is Crosby yes and them is Alex added then no it's not really close at all.

I never said his winger did I? Kessel and Malkin played with Crosby on the PP and he took full advantage of it. They all did. I never said his winger.

I went over this in another post, of course Malkin and Kessel are going to do better feeding off each other at ES than Crosby playing with a rookie who had 41 less points than him.

I also explained that much of that difference was actually in PP production, not ES and looked at their complete games not just simple raw points without any extra context.

With what context? I’m not the one saying Ovechkin was a beast and lead his team in production did I? You have constantly talked about Crosby’s 21 in 12, yet continue to ignore Guenztel because he was his winger. Completely different argument.

No you didn't say that Ovechkin was abeast, you said that he was better in the regular season and Even the playoffs, Ovechkin walked away with a cup and Smythe.

Why do you keep bringing up Jake Guentzel, I provided context with what Crosby did in the playoffs, bringing up Guenztal actually helps Crosby's case even more.

I'm not ignoring that jake was Crosby's winger so why say that?

I forgot, CF% is the only source everyone should look at. Nothing else. Your a broken record.

Sure let's toss it out and you replace it with nothing and we all agree that you are right then?

Umm on second thought no.

It's actually only part of the argument but it's something that you don't like to bring up as it's hurts your case.

My Point about Crosby finishing 3rd in points is against the posters that say Ovechkin is a product of his line and his center. That he has better linemates while Crosby has to deal with less and does “more.” Both players don’t need elite linemates. Both have shown this.

Crosby right now doesn't need elite line mates and never has.

Ovechkin has better linemates in Kuznetsov Backstrom plain and simple, neither of us know if he
(Ovechkin) needs them or not as he plays with one of them pretty much all of the time right now.

Do you really want to argue that Jake Guentzal is a better player than Backstrom or Kuznetsov?

 

[wetcoast]

I’m amazed how many of you read and say things without actually looking at the context. I guess we can’t all be intelligent.....

This is very ironic, something about the pot and kettle going on here.

who is to say he would mesh well with Draisaitl?

Who know but what do know is that he is a much better player than Guentzal right?

Or is it a stretch to think that having a better line mate might just perhaps boost production?

Either way it probably doesn't matter as McDavid is is what 8 or 9 years younger than Crosby and forwards peak early.

Again, it’s amazing how much you actuallt lack in terms of your own golden boy. You do realize that with linemates, it’s about Chemistry.....right? Crosby didn’t even have good chemistry with Kessel. That’s why they don’t play together. But you seem to think that trading player A with player B would have the same results. Wow.....

I don't have a relationship to Crosby and don't infer one with you and Ovechkin, how about sticking to the actual discussion instead of trying to be cute?

I'm not some counter girl at Krispy Kreme donuts that you need to impress.

Crosby has and still has a great ability to play with pretty much anyone and he is more often than not the guy driving production and play, especially this year.

I pointed it out with CF%, you don't like it present something more than just one metric in goals, we can all agree that Ovechkin is the better goal scorer that's not up for debate..

I’d rather look at something as objective as goals than to clinge to life to this imaginary overrated “elite” two way play that Crosby suddenly learned after his scoring went down.

I guess me and the Selke voters are imagining things.

Or the CF% stats are imaginary as well?

I would have to take alot of wetcoast herbage here to imagine that wildly around these parts.

Even then it's pretty clear that Crosby brings more to the table than Ovechkin does if we take away counting stats, right?

 

[wetcoast]

Why? So you can change your definition of what is and isn’t in the running for the Art Ross?

Last time I checked, 6 was closer than 11 and 4 years wasn’t 9. Basic math.....but again, maybe I’m wasting my breath.

Sure and just look at a single season rather than the 9 seasons.

You really are skipping over the fact that when Ovechkin finished 6 points behind Benn in 14-15, Crosby finished 3 points back in 4 less games played.

He had the mumps that year

Sidney Crosby diagnosed with mumps | CBC Sports

You need better arguments and facts, they aren't out there.