Confirmed Signing with Link: (Mod warning OP)[TBL] Brayden Point signs with the Lightning (3 years, $6.75M AAV)

[sparxx87]

Right, sorry I was skimming too quick.

Actually, I might have been mixed up but the same will be true with Point at a lower number. After 3 years he’ll be an RFA and can just accept the QO and become UFA in a year.

On second look, it was actually an exchange weighing potential risks in the bridge concept. My bad.

 

[mattihp]

A couple of agents for the remaining RFAs are now crying.

 

[Todd1a]

Tampa Bay DOES have a tax advantage.
And it is NOT the main reason why they have better contracts.

--------------------------------

Vegas has about the same state taxes % as Tampa Bay.

And they pay Mark Stone $9.5 million/year.
Exact same salary as Nikita Kucherov, the league's MVP.
Stone's best season is 73 points.
Kucherov's best season is 128 points. 55 more points.

What explains that Tampa Bay was able to pay Kucherov at this price after his 100 points season, and that Vegas had to give Marc Stone the same money even tho he is clearly in a lower tier than Kucherov ?

Tax break ? Nope.

What about Dallas and Jamie Benn ?
Jamie Benn makes $9.5 million average per year on a contract that he signed in 2016.
How come Tampa Bay was able to sign Kucherov to the same amount in 2018, when the cap for the upcoming season was going to be $8 million higher than when Jamie Benn signed his contract.

Tax break ? Nope.

Dallas has about the same state taxes % as Tampa Bay.


So why is it that Tampa got better deals ?

Because the GMs did a great job at implementing a great internal cap structure.
They also managed to sell their vision and team concept to the players.
The players are willing to leave some money on the table instead of aiming for the maximum payout possible to create a winning team and to stay in a great environment to play their sport.

That's the difference between why Tampa Bay manages to get great deals even in comparisons to teams with the exact same taxe state income %.

----------------------------------

Tampa Bay is also a prime destination regarding Media Exposure, Weather, and yes Taxes.
Those are obvious advantages that not all markets have access to.
Canadian markets are at a disadvantage regarding those 3 factors, and they could definitively impact the willingness of a player to take a pay cut.

Don't you think that a lot of players in Montreal and Toronto would be willing to take a $500 000 pay cut just to not be expose to the crazy Medias in those pressure cookers, and also live by the beach with palm trees year round ?

Needless to say, no need for tax break to be willing to take a pay cut for a better environment.
And now you can add a little pay cut for advantages taxes. Yes.
Even tho it is NOT as simple as calculating different state taxes % like showed in the previous exemples of tax break available to Canadian market, it is still and advantage.
Add to that the amazing job of the GMs to build and sell a team winning culture and you have great deals comparing to the rest of the league.



So going back to this quote, taxes DO NOT account fully, or even mostly, for the difference.

Taxes DO make a difference, but nowhere to the extend that a lot of people makes it out to be.

lol kucherov loves Tampa have you seen him interview ? he likes having like a small media group in tampa! if kucherov was in Toronto he would request a trade to get away from the media lol

 

[SotasicA]

Sorry don't have time to read 26 pages to see if this answer comes up. About the second point. Wouldn't he just have arbitration rights? I don't understand what you're saying about him declining and just walking. If they extend a qualifying offer wouldn't his only recourse (beyond holding out) be to file for arbitration?

Yes, if he declines the QO.

But since the QO will be huge, he signs and it walks him straight to UFAdom.

QO is always one year. Even if you simultaneously make other, longer offers, you also have to give that 1-year offer to retain rights.

So if he doesn't like the longer offers, he signs the QO. If they choose not to offer a 1-year QO and only offer long term, he has the option to immediately become an UFA by declining.

 

[PensPlz]

Yup. The RFA process makes no sense and it's so inconsistent it's simply laughable at this point. Get rid of it completely.

 

[SotasicA]

Yup. The RFA process makes no sense and it's so inconsistent it's simply laughable at this point. Get rid of it completely.

What's the point of drafting if you don't get to keep the players?

 

[mattihp]

What's the point of drafting if you don't get to keep the players?

Does the draft make that much sense?

All this seems like the employer's market. In some ways it is serfdom.

 

[SotasicA]

Does the draft make that much sense?

All this seems like the employer's market. In some ways it is serfdom.

Works for school PE class.

 

[glovesave_35]

wat?????

As in not as good of a team. Doesn't have the team accomplishments yet. Not sure how to word it better.

 

[JoVel]

Yet another off season where Tampa was supposed to be screwed and yet they signed everyone they needed.

Just wait for next year's cap crunch though!!!!

 

[Bedards Dad]

Sorry don't have time to read 26 pages to see if this answer comes up. About the second point. Wouldn't he just have arbitration rights? I don't understand what you're saying about him declining and just walking. If they extend a qualifying offer wouldn't his only recourse (beyond holding out) be to file for arbitration?

I was under the impression he can accept the QO (min. 9M), not accept and go to arb or TB could not extend a QO (not happening) and he becomes a UFA. I could be completely wrong though.

 

[Bedards Dad]

yeah no

Other than Ovi, who's better?

Actually, dont bother, this isnt a Matthews thread.

 

[bobholly39]

Yet another off season where Tampa was supposed to be screwed and yet they signed everyone they needed.

Just wait for next year's cap crunch though!!!!

Yeah. Good for fans and good for the team but the players are morons lol. Leaving so much money on the table.

How can a near selke finalist level center who scored 92 points accept a contract for only 6.75M? He probably could have made double that on the open market, or close.

Like I said - good for you guys, good for Tampa....but Point is a moron. Even if he cashes in in 3 years, he'll still never recoup the money he left for those 3 years.

 

[hockeyguru]

this deal isn't as good as people think it is. it's only for 3 years so it doesn't buy an ufa years, and the QO is 9 million.

 

[Todd1a]

Yes, if he declines the QO.

But since the QO will be huge, he signs and it walks him straight to UFAdom.

QO is always one year. Even if you simultaneously make other, longer offers, you also have to give that 1-year offer to retain rights.

So if he doesn't like the longer offers, he signs the QO. If they choose not to offer a 1-year QO and only offer long term, he has the option to immediately become an UFA by declining.

By the summer of 2021 they will extend him way before that same thing they did with Vasy and Kucherov

 

[Todd1a]

Yet another off season where Tampa was supposed to be screwed and yet they signed everyone they needed.

Just wait for next year's cap crunch though!!!!

They figure it out always lol yzerman trained them all well it’s not like brisebois was doing nothing in Tampa for 9 years

 

[missionAvs]

Tampa Bay DOES have a tax advantage.
And it is NOT the main reason why they have better contracts.

--------------------------------

Vegas has about the same state taxes % as Tampa Bay.

And they pay Mark Stone $9.5 million/year.
Exact same salary as Nikita Kucherov, the league's MVP.
Stone's best season is 73 points.
Kucherov's best season is 128 points. 55 more points.

What explains that Tampa Bay was able to pay Kucherov at this price after his 100 points season, and that Vegas had to give Marc Stone the same money even tho he is clearly in a lower tier than Kucherov ?

Tax break ? Nope.

What about Dallas and Jamie Benn ?
Jamie Benn makes $9.5 million average per year on a contract that he signed in 2016.
How come Tampa Bay was able to sign Kucherov to the same amount in 2018, when the cap for the upcoming season was going to be $8 million higher than when Jamie Benn signed his contract.

Tax break ? Nope.

Dallas has about the same state taxes % as Tampa Bay.


So why is it that Tampa got better deals ?

Because the GMs did a great job at implementing a great internal cap structure.
They also managed to sell their vision and team concept to the players.
The players are willing to leave some money on the table instead of aiming for the maximum payout possible to create a winning team and to stay in a great environment to play their sport.

That's the difference between why Tampa Bay manages to get great deals even in comparisons to teams with the exact same taxe state income %.

----------------------------------

Tampa Bay is also a prime destination regarding Media Exposure, Weather, and yes Taxes.
Those are obvious advantages that not all markets have access to.
Canadian markets are at a disadvantage regarding those 3 factors, and they could definitively impact the willingness of a player to take a pay cut.

Don't you think that a lot of players in Montreal and Toronto would be willing to take a $500 000 pay cut just to not be expose to the crazy Medias in those pressure cookers, and also live by the beach with palm trees year round ?

Needless to say, no need for tax break to be willing to take a pay cut for a better environment.
And now you can add a little pay cut for advantages taxes. Yes.
Even tho it is NOT as simple as calculating different state taxes % like showed in the previous exemples of tax break available to Canadian market, it is still and advantage.
Add to that the amazing job of the GMs to build and sell a team winning culture and you have great deals comparing to the rest of the league.



So going back to this quote, taxes DO NOT account fully, or even mostly, for the difference.

Taxes DO make a difference, but nowhere to the extend that a lot of people makes it out to be.

Smart, articulate, and to the point.... Disgusting, get the f*** outta here.

 

[Todd1a]

Vasi already did his bridge deal. TB pays lower on the bridge on the 2nd deal and then takes care of them in the 3rd contract.

I’m surprised more hockey fans have not figured that out by now ? And there like how can Tampa afford to keep all these players? Simple after 3 years palat will be off the books and Johnson and killorn will then have been traded . Then in the summer of 2021 point signs an 8 year contract extension for 10 avv per year making him the new highest paid guy in the roster. So now he gets 20.25 million before he gets his 80 to 85 million dollar contract on his next deal. They did the same pattern with Vasy and Kucherov.

 

[Todd1a]

Ya I wouldnt count on 9.5 million in 3 years if it is a long term contract which actually buys UFA years.

He probably will get 10 or 10.5 avv on 8 years by the time he signs his 8 year deal in Tampa.

 

[threeVo]

I mean isnt this one of the more expensive bridge deals ever? It seems like the going rate for 3 year RFA contracts that leave a player 1 year short of UFA. It seems low because of all the 8 year 10M+ deals floating around, but in reality its nothing more than a reasonable bridge deal like many other players have signed in the past. If they buy any UFA years under 10M then we can talk about how tampa is the GOAT, but until then lets pump the brakes a little bit.

Take out the TOR deals because who knows whats actually going on there. 5x11 and 6x10.9 looks bad no matter how you slice it

 

[KingsCourt]

good for now..pain later

 

[Foxtail]

I mean isnt this one of the more expensive bridge deals ever? It seems like the going rate for 3 year RFA contracts that leave a player 1 year short of UFA. It seems low because of all the 8 year 10M+ deals floating around, but in reality its nothing more than a reasonable bridge deal like many other players have signed in the past. If they buy any UFA years under 10M then we can talk about how tampa is the GOAT, but until then lets pump the brakes a little bit.

Take out the TOR deals because who knows whats actually going on there. 5x11 and 6x10.9 looks bad no matter how you slice it

5×11.6 actually lol and yeah they are bad. On sportsnets top 50 player rankings one is 17 and the other 29

 

[horner]

wow, what a team friendly deal point signed, just shows you that there is more to some players than maxing out salaries in favour of accepting reasonable deals that can help a team stay together and win.

Kyle Dubas and the leafs should have a chat with the Tampa organization and players to find out what the secret to the sauce is and no it is not only the FLA tax situation...

Points qualifying offer in 3 yrs he will be 9 mil 10 or 11 mil for 7 yrs

 

[CDN24]

Clearly Tavares was not able to pull of such a hypothetical Florida residency because he: Leafs' John Tavares buys Toronto home

Also the U.S would have their own version of some sort of trust fund to defer taxes paid.

I'll give you that it's not as much of difference based on the tax calculator. But you cannot say that TB doesn't have a tax advantage, and players are signing for what seem like a lesser cap hit, because the net pay is comparable to a higher cap hit (like Marner) in high tax markets.

The residency test for taxation is much more than owning a house. Many people have houses in multiple jurisdictions,

The RCA discussed in that article is a massive benefit to the cdn teams. If a guy like Tavares uses one - he can stick 38.5M in one over his contract with the Leafs. Taken to the extreme, he could move to Monaco with no income tax. He would then pay a 25% witholding tax to Canada on money extracted from the RCA, thats it 25%. And that is why almost every formula 1 driver lives in Monaco.

US has nothing like the RCA

 

[NyQuil]

Does the draft make that much sense?

All this seems like the employer's market. In some ways it is serfdom.

Ugh, the alternative where players demand to be traded all the time is worse.