MLB: New PBA Proposal would Eliminate 25% of Minor League Baseball in 2021

[KevFu]

Make no mistake about what the purge is about: control. MLB has been spinning this as making the MiLB environment better for players, upgrading facilities, changing the travel demands, and putting affiliates closer to each other and/or the parent club. (The MLB argument that the purge is predicated on player facilities looks a little thin when they say Williamsport can host MLB players for their annual Little League Classic, but it can't have a MiLB team.)

I think all those things can be true at the same time.

Yes, the restructuring is a cost-saving measure, but some of the facilities are really, really bad. The San Jose Giants play in a stadium that adjusting for inflation, cost less to build than the price of a legit scoreboard. The Bay Area college players who play in college venues like Stanford, Cal, Santa Clara, Pacific, UC Davis, Cal Poly, UC Santa Barbara.... they're like "What a dump" when they play A ball in San Jose. (Sac State and Saint Mary's aren't GREAT facilities, but they're better than the SJ Municipal Stadium). San Jose State can play at the SJ Giants ballpark FOR FREE and built their own mediocre place! Of course, San Jose Giants are being spared because of location. But the point remains valid.

MLB's idea is really a good idea, for a variety of reasons: inefficiency, lack of need to field 172 teams across seven different levels (Draft has shrunk, scouting is better, internet lets scouts know more about their players before the draft than ever before), bad travel in widespread leagues, affiliations too far away to shuffle players up and down easily during the season (the Mets fired their manager and promoted two guys from their AAA staff a few years ago. The media went nuts because instead of firing the manager on a Sunday afternoon in New York, they did it after a a weeknight game in Anaheim. They had to do that to get their minor league staff from Iowa to Anaheim, Florida to the next AAA location, etc).

Going to 32 teams in the near future, making four leagues of 8 in the West, South, East/Central 1 and East/Central 2 at every level; and cutting one level of the minors would be ridiculously smart.

And they are also going about it in a selfish, greedy power move way with terrible PR.

 

[hockeyguy0022]

Speaking of baseball, it's a real shame we don't see any good higher level baseball in Canada anymore, no AA/AAA.

Oddly it's still very popular with kids up to about high school where it falls off vs Hockey/Football. Unless you're NCAA baseball good.

None the less, it's still a huge "summer" sport, but watching the out of college kids in the summer-pro isn't the same as real baseball.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Forming a third AAA league for the Central States teams (the Heartland League) to me isn't that much to ask. The PCL as it existed in 2019 had teams in three different time zones - Central, Mountain, and Pacific. Sure their schedule format limits the games between the CT teams and the MT/PT teams, it's still too much to ask the CT teams to be in this league.

Rather, I'd like to see a league in AAA made up of the CT teams in the PCL and the West Division teams in the IL. While sentiment would favor reviving the American Association name, it's already being taken by an indie league which is soon to partner with MLB - and I don't see that league relinquishing the rights to that name. So Heartland League is also acceptable.

 

[KevFu]

Forming a third AAA league for the Central States teams (the Heartland League) to me isn't that much to ask. The PCL as it existed in 2019 had teams in three different time zones - Central, Mountain, and Pacific. Sure their schedule format limits the games between the CT teams and the MT/PT teams, it's still too much to ask the CT teams to be in this league.

Rather, I'd like to see a league in AAA made up of the CT teams in the PCL and the West Division teams in the IL. While sentiment would favor reviving the American Association name, it's already being taken by an indie league which is soon to partner with MLB - and I don't see that league relinquishing the rights to that name. So Heartland League is also acceptable.

Yup. If the whole point of this reorganization is to save money by lowering travel costs, and reduce wear and tear on players... four leagues per level makes sense.

30 teams:
PCL - Tacoma, Sacramento, Reno, Vegas, Salt Lake, Albuquerque
HL - El Paso, Round Rock, Sugarland, Memphis, OKC, Omaha, Iowa, St. Paul
AA - Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, Durham, Charlotte, Gwinnett, Jacksonville, Norfolk,
IL - Toledo, Columbus, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Worcester, Lehigh Valley, Scranton

With 32 teams
PCL - Tacoma, Sacramento, Fresno, Reno, Vegas, Salt Lake, Albuquerque, El Paso,
HL - Round Rock, Sugarland, New Orleans, OKC, Omaha, Iowa, Wichita, St. Paul
AA - Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Durham, Charlotte, Gwinnett, Jacksonville, Norfolk,
IL - Toledo, Columbus, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Worcester, Lehigh Valley, Scranton

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The American Association that exists now, despite becoming an MLB partner league, won't give up their name without substantial compensation.

 

[Liebo]

@KevFu: Yes, there are facilities that need to be upgraded, San Jose one of them. That organization has for the most part sat on its location being its selling point for decades, to the detriment of any improvements. But many other cities and towns have done exactly what MLB asked of them by putting millions into their ballparks, only now to get shut out. And there are parks that will be on the outside after the purge that meet or exceed facility requirements. Billings is barely ten years old; Lowell is a solid market, good facility, and near the Red Sox. Those are just two...

If you are looking at minor league baseball as simply a player development vehicle, then you may as well burn the whole system down and go with the Houston plan: keep all the players in spring training sites and break players up by level the same way they normally would, then develop players through games in Florida and Arizona. Minimal travel, consolidated development, easy control.

However, the minor league system has evolved into something more than just a player development mechanism. It's the broadest grassroots marketing vehicle in professional sports. Collectively, minor league baseball reaches people, exposes them to the product, and makes lifelong fans in a way commercials and digital marketing never could. That might seem trivial, but baseball continues to face pressure from other sports, changing fan tastes, and challenging demographics. Is now the time to throw away 25% of your grassroots marketing effort, when the average MLB fan is 57 years old? (By comparison, the same Sports Business Journal study showed the average NFL fan was 50, NFL 49, NBA 42, and MLS 40.) The cost of another minor league affiliate isn't worth throwing away that kind of exposure.

If the whole reason to revamp the minors is strictly for player development, then MLB would let organizations secure additional affiliates if they want to invest more heavily in minor league development. But the information I've seen is that MLB teams will be limited as to the number of minor league players they have under contract. If this is all about making player development better, let teams develop players the way they want to.

Yes, I'm biased. I've spent a lot of time in minor league markets, watching people in far-flung places become fans of major league teams because of their experience at a local ballpark. If MLB wants to dismiss it, they'll feel the pain in the long run. By doing it the way they have over the last 12 months, they're making sure they feel that pain in the short-term, too.

 

[GindyDraws]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ngs-washington-nationals-class-aaa-affiliate/

The Washington Nationals have decided to affiliate with Rochester instead of going with Richmond on the AAA level.

Meanwhile, I got antsy so I sent a message to the Indianapolis Indians, knowing that there likely won't be any news on affiliation on their end, but they told me they will be playing in 2021. Just wish if it's still with the Pirates or if it will be with another team.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I've proposed an elevation of Bowie to the IL when MLB expands to 32 teams, which is now dependent on what the minor leagues will look like starting in 2021.

 

[KevFu]

@KevFu: Yes, there are facilities that need to be upgraded, San Jose one of them. That organization has for the most part sat on its location being its selling point for decades, to the detriment of any improvements. But many other cities and towns have done exactly what MLB asked of them by putting millions into their ballparks, only now to get shut out. And there are parks that will be on the outside after the purge that meet or exceed facility requirements. Billings is barely ten years old; Lowell is a solid market, good facility, and near the Red Sox. Those are just two...

If you are looking at minor league baseball as simply a player development vehicle, then you may as well burn the whole system down and go with the Houston plan: keep all the players in spring training sites and break players up by level the same way they normally would, then develop players through games in Florida and Arizona. Minimal travel, consolidated development, easy control.

However, the minor league system has evolved into something more than just a player development mechanism. It's the broadest grassroots marketing vehicle in professional sports. Collectively, minor league baseball reaches people, exposes them to the product, and makes lifelong fans in a way commercials and digital marketing never could. That might seem trivial, but baseball continues to face pressure from other sports, changing fan tastes, and challenging demographics. Is now the time to throw away 25% of your grassroots marketing effort, when the average MLB fan is 57 years old? (By comparison, the same Sports Business Journal study showed the average NFL fan was 50, NFL 49, NBA 42, and MLS 40.) The cost of another minor league affiliate isn't worth throwing away that kind of exposure.

If the whole reason to revamp the minors is strictly for player development, then MLB would let organizations secure additional affiliates if they want to invest more heavily in minor league development. But the information I've seen is that MLB teams will be limited as to the number of minor league players they have under contract. If this is all about making player development better, let teams develop players the way they want to.

Yes, I'm biased. I've spent a lot of time in minor league markets, watching people in far-flung places become fans of major league teams because of their experience at a local ballpark. If MLB wants to dismiss it, they'll feel the pain in the long run. By doing it the way they have over the last 12 months, they're making sure they feel that pain in the short-term, too.

I agree with virtually all of that. I've been in AAA cities most my life, worked in minor league ball, it's great.

MLB is trimming the minors for one greedy reason (they're about to have to pay minor leaguers more money each), but also a few good reasons: They don't need as wide a net as before. They don't need 7 levels of feeder leagues when 5 is enough; the players learn skills better in training than games, the games are like tests/finishing school; and some of the facilities are terrible.

I also think they're doing this in a terrible way from a PR and humanity standpoint. I think they picked a short-sighted method of "slash it with a hack saw" instead of a strategic, surgical approach.

1. Take every non-MLB city in the USA and Canada and rank them by the desire to have them in MLB.
2. Take every existing baseball facility for those markets and rank them by your standards for player development
3. Take every existing team and rank them for baseball attendance or baseball TV ratings
4. Combine all that data into one massive index
5. Arrange those markets into eight regions by geography.

Now use THAT to come up with:
1. 2 new MLB franchises
2. Four Triple A leagues of 8 teams each, each contained within 1 or 2 regions max
3. Four Double A leagues of 8 teams each, each contained within 1 or 2 regions max
4. Four High A leagues of 8 teams each, each contained within a region
5. Four Single A leagues of 8 teams each, each contained within a region
6. Build complexes for your "skill development" young draftee extended spring training sites in Florida/Arizona/California

Propose that radical reorganization to Minor League Baseball, to take effect when MLB expansion happens. Built toward it

 

[Centrum Hockey]

https://www.fresnobee.com/sports/mlb/fresno-grizzlies/article247444700.html

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

With Fresno moving down, I would expect that San Jose move up to the PCL to serve as the new AAA team for the Giants. If not then one of the Inland Empire teams to serve as the Dodgers' new AAA team (I'm expecting that all 8 Mountain/Pacific teams in MLB will have their top affiliate in one of those two time zones).

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

This would of course go with my desire that the Central Time teams in the PCL join with the IL West Division teams to form the Heartland League.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I've also stated my desire that Brooklyn one day get the AAA affiliate of the Yankees, since Brooklyn can't have its own MLB team now as they did many years ago.

Reflecting the Yankees affiliation, I could see such a team called the Bosses in honor of former Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, who was called "The Boss".

 

[GindyDraws]

https://www.fresnobee.com/sports/mlb/fresno-grizzlies/article247444700.html

I'm a bit of a jerk, so I'm rooting they're so stubborn that they end up going out of business. I know they themselves weren't (directly) responsible for a rather... infamous Memorial Day service back in 2018 (although they still approved it), but even before then, I've sort of held the Grizzlies in pretty low regard.

They and the Florida Fire Frogs are the only two teams I wouldn't mind seeing go out of business as a result of this stuff; everyone else I will feel a good deal of sadness over, despite how lazy Staten Island was managed.

 

[GindyDraws]

Meanwhile, according to Baseball America (which was reported second-hand on other news outlets), the plans are that Triple A will still be at two leagues, and Double A will still be at three leagues, though they may or will shuffle around the existing leagues for the new blueprint. With the removal of Fresno, San Antonio, and Wichita in Triple A, and the confirmation of Sugar Land, along with the aspirations of St. Paul and Jacksonville to that level, that would put 15/15 on the PCL/IL blueprint as it currently sits.

I really hate the idea of making one league a 20 team monstrosity, but it appears that is where we're going instead of splitting them into three geographical leagues.

 

[sabremike]

@KevFu: Yes, there are facilities that need to be upgraded, San Jose one of them. That organization has for the most part sat on its location being its selling point for decades, to the detriment of any improvements. But many other cities and towns have done exactly what MLB asked of them by putting millions into their ballparks, only now to get shut out. And there are parks that will be on the outside after the purge that meet or exceed facility requirements. Billings is barely ten years old; Lowell is a solid market, good facility, and near the Red Sox. Those are just two...

If you are looking at minor league baseball as simply a player development vehicle, then you may as well burn the whole system down and go with the Houston plan: keep all the players in spring training sites and break players up by level the same way they normally would, then develop players through games in Florida and Arizona. Minimal travel, consolidated development, easy control.

However, the minor league system has evolved into something more than just a player development mechanism. It's the broadest grassroots marketing vehicle in professional sports. Collectively, minor league baseball reaches people, exposes them to the product, and makes lifelong fans in a way commercials and digital marketing never could. That might seem trivial, but baseball continues to face pressure from other sports, changing fan tastes, and challenging demographics. Is now the time to throw away 25% of your grassroots marketing effort, when the average MLB fan is 57 years old? (By comparison, the same Sports Business Journal study showed the average NFL fan was 50, NFL 49, NBA 42, and MLS 40.) The cost of another minor league affiliate isn't worth throwing away that kind of exposure.

If the whole reason to revamp the minors is strictly for player development, then MLB would let organizations secure additional affiliates if they want to invest more heavily in minor league development. But the information I've seen is that MLB teams will be limited as to the number of minor league players they have under contract. If this is all about making player development better, let teams develop players the way they want to.

Yes, I'm biased. I've spent a lot of time in minor league markets, watching people in far-flung places become fans of major league teams because of their experience at a local ballpark. If MLB wants to dismiss it, they'll feel the pain in the long run. By doing it the way they have over the last 12 months, they're making sure they feel that pain in the short-term, too.

You basically stated my exact thoughts only in a better fashion than I am capable of. This whole thing is a continuation of the penny wise and pound foolish moves that have caused the popularity of the sport to collapse and have it headed towards the status of horse racing or boxing a decade or so from now.

 

[sabremike]

I'm a bit of a jerk, so I'm rooting they're so stubborn that they end up going out of business. I know they themselves weren't (directly) responsible for a rather... infamous Memorial Day service back in 2018 (although they still approved it), but even before then, I've sort of held the Grizzlies in pretty low regard.

They and the Florida Fire Frogs are the only two teams I wouldn't mind seeing go out of business as a result of this stuff; everyone else I will feel a good deal of sadness over, despite how lazy Staten Island was managed.

As someone who has actually lost a few teams I can tell you that I have some terms considerably stronger than "jerk" for people taking pleasure in a team folding. Please don't be one of those awful people.

As for Staten Island what killed them was very simple: In theory the ballpark on the north end by the ferry was a great idea. IN THEORY. Unfortunately the problem is that it is very difficult for people on SI to get up to that location, and even worse was that there was an extreme lack of parking that further discouraged people from going. And besides a handful of people like me and my friends not many people used the ferry to go from Manhattan to the games. Sadly the stadium will probably be torn down very soon like another gem of a ballpark Campbell's Field was.

 

[GindyDraws]

As someone who has actually lost a few teams I can tell you that I have some terms considerably stronger than "jerk" for people taking pleasure in a team folding. Please don't be one of those awful people.

As for Staten Island what killed them was very simple: In theory the ballpark on the north end by the ferry was a great idea. IN THEORY. Unfortunately the problem is that it is very difficult for people on SI to get up to that location, and even worse was that there was an extreme lack of parking that further discouraged people from going. And besides a handful of people like me and my friends not many people used the ferry to go from Manhattan to the games. Sadly the stadium will probably be torn down very soon like another gem of a ballpark Campbell's Field was.

There's only two teams I would have positive feelings towards folding. Fresno is on the more harsh side, but I think everyone can agree the world will go on without Florida. They had no fan support during their time in Kissimmee and currently have no long term place for a ballpark. Atlanta will be fine finding a more stable affiliate.

The whole situation in Staten Island was poorly managed, almost right from the start. Seems like both Brooklyn & Staten Island took different paths.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

As someone who has actually lost a few teams I can tell you that I have some terms considerably stronger than "jerk" for people taking pleasure in a team folding. Please don't be one of those awful people.

As for Staten Island what killed them was very simple: In theory the ballpark on the north end by the ferry was a great idea. IN THEORY. Unfortunately the problem is that it is very difficult for people on SI to get up to that location, and even worse was that there was an extreme lack of parking that further discouraged people from going. And besides a handful of people like me and my friends not many people used the ferry to go from Manhattan to the games. Sadly the stadium will probably be torn down very soon like another gem of a ballpark Campbell's Field was.

There's only two teams I would have positive feelings towards folding. Fresno is on the more harsh side, but I think everyone can agree the world will go on without Florida. They had no fan support during their time in Kissimmee and currently have no long term place for a ballpark. Atlanta will be fine finding a more stable affiliate.

The whole situation in Staten Island was poorly managed, almost right from the start. Seems like both Brooklyn & Staten Island took different paths.

Facility standards unchanged since 1992, guaranteed affiliations and generous territory rights led to a lot of undesirable situations for MLB when it came to player development. The owners of the SI Yankees thought they could do the bare minimum and there would be no consequences.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I can tell you one thing. People in cities whose minor league teams either lost their MLB affiliations or were demoted will campaign actively against Rob Manfred's enshrinement into Cooperstown when the time comes.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

So far, the AAA, High-A, Low-A, and Rookie levels will have leagues based at least in part in the Mountain/Pacific Time Zone

I would expect such a league be created at the AA level when MLB expands to 40 years after going to 32 and the four-league alignment

 

[Liebo]

@Big Z Man 1990: Fresno moving down has long been part of this arrangement, but San Jose has never been considered anything higher than Single-A. As has been mentioned elsewhere, Sugar Land, St. Paul, and perhaps Jacksonville will be moving to Triple-A. There's no room for San Jose at that level. Furthermore, the SJ Giants have done little to elevate themselves over the past 30 years to anything more than a nearby, low-level affiliate.

@JDogindy: Yes, Fresno's Memorial Day gaffe was a bad one. From my experience, I'd say the mistake was one of laziness and carlessness, not intent. Fresno is moving down because the organization has struggled financially for some time, and switching to a California-based league with limited travel and nearby rivals should help them out. That's why MLB's leak that Fresno has to agree to Single-A ball or get shut out just smacks of more major league heavy-handedness, because Fresno asked for the shift. Perhaps the Grizzlies aren't happy with their proposed affiliate and would like the opportunity to discuss options. But leave it to MLB to try bullying them in the media.

@Centrum Hockey: I'll agree with you somewhat about how we got in the current situation with MiLB. It's hard to change facility standards when you're still granting exemptions to ballparks from the 1992 changes. If both MLB and MiLB were serious about dragging old ballparks into the new age, they would have not only set hard deadlines for changes, but also developed a credit facility or some kind of funding for cities and teams to pay for the upgrades. It's my understanding MiLB has been discussing just such a funding mechanism for the improvements demanded moving forward, so why wasn't this developed years ago? If both sides care about the teams and their communities beyond lip service, then find a way to partner in improving those facilities. Finally, when MLB leaked a year ago that they would cut 25% of minor league teams, they blamed playing facilities that didn't meet modern requirements. For that whole year, MLB cited this complaint, but only in the last month did they bother outlining those new facility requirements. If MLB's primary goal was player facilities--and not find a reason to slash teams--then they would have detailed the new facility standards as early as possible to get the upgrades implemented sooner. By not doing so, they showed their ass.

As for territorial rules, I think the rules are generous, but I can't think of too many times they were stumbling blocks for affiliated development. Of course, there is an obvious one in your backyard, since Pawtucket controlled central Mass and effectively blocked a team in Worcester until they themselves decided to relocate there. I preferred the old 35-mile territory MiLB used to have. But the unwieldy sprawl was born as much out of the marriage of cities that wanted a team (and were willing to build the requisite ballpark) and teams that were available at the time. For instance, the Columbus RedStixx had no business moving from Georgia to the Cleveland metro area while a part of the South Atlantic League. But you can't just make a team available in the league that makes the most sense, and you can't always make the city you want build a ballpark out of thin air. (Lord knows I've tried!) There are too many forces at work when it comes to franchise location, something MLB will find out in the next few years while they try to control all the pieces on the chessboard.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

 

[Centrum Hockey]

 

[GindyDraws]

The carnage has begun. Teams are already dropping like flies.