MLB: New PBA Proposal would Eliminate 25% of Minor League Baseball in 2021

Liebo

Registered User
May 7, 2018
16
15
There is no justification for MLB to loose their antitrust exemption on this issue since they are not forcing teams to fold and there is no binding contract requiring mlb to send players to milb clubs.

I'm a little late jumping into the conversation, but if I can throw out a few opinions (forgive me if these points have been argued already, just let me know):

1. It could be argued by purged (that's the term I've been going with) teams or cities that if they invested in stadium upgrades at the behest of their parent club or MLB's facility standards, MLB is in part responsible for that liability. It's not a hard argument to make: two parties have a contractual agreement, one party makes that agreement contingent upon an investment, and the second party makes that investment only to find the relationship terminated anyway. The attorneys would fight it out, but I imagine there are a few sympathetic judges out there that would see the purged teams' side.

2. @Centrum Hockey, I don't think that MLB's antitrust exposure is in purging 25% of MiLB teams but in their desire to control the entire baseball landscape. Consider this scenario, in which we'll focus on David Heller and Main Street Baseball, which owns one or two MiLB teams that will survive and two or three that will be purged: Lowell is on the chopping block, but let's say Heller really wants baseball to remain in the market. He has the resources, so he negotiates to buy a MiLB that survives the purge. Maybe those owners hate the new landscape of minor league ball, maybe Heller just makes an offer they can't refuse. Anyway, Heller plans to buy the team and move it to Lowell in order to resurrect the Spinners. Now MLB has already decided it didn't want Heller to own a team in Lowell, that's why the Spinners were purged, so MLB rejects the sale/move proposal. They can't argue ownership is unsatisfactory because Main Street Baseball also owns the Wilmington Blue Rocks, a surviving team in MiLB. The ballpark is good and the market is in a practical location. Any rationale MLB offers would be a transparent cover for, "We already said we didn't want him to own a team there." That's where MLB runs afoul of black-letter antitrust law without any logical or legal grounds beyond, "we said so." And while this specific scenario may not come to fruition, MLB has gone to great pains to decide which teams should exist and who they should be affiliated with. Minor league baseball's map has always been fluid; owners come and go, and markets pop up that want a team and they're willing to build a nice stadium to attract one. When MLB blocks transactions because they upset the carefully-planned pieces on their chessboard, the antitrust exemption will be at risk.

3. All that being said, it could be argued that MiLB actually benefits more from the antitrust exemption that MLB does. MiLB has carefully defined territorial rules, and leagues, teams, and prospective markets work within those rules. Without antitrust protection, there's nothing to keep a team from moving into another club's backyard. The Rays notwithstanding, MLB doesn't see much in the way of franchise relocation any more. And baseball's antitrust exemption for the most part only applies to franchise ownership and relocation; it made some antitrust concessions following the 1994 strike in the Curt Flood Act of 1998. Interestingly, the other way the minors could get hurt is that without the antitrust exemption, it has been suggested that assigning non-40-man roster players to minor league teams could be regarded as a restraint of trade, since those players are not members of a union and they have not been a party to collective bargaining to hand off those rights. Without an antitrust exemption, we might end up with a MiLB players union.

It's been said that MLB sees the other major leagues and how they do quite well without any antitrust protection, so they're not terribly worried about losing the exemption.

All of the above being said, I think it would be a fantastic comeuppance for MLB to smugly dismiss its antitrust exemption in this power grab for the minor leagues, and then see the Rays and their New York-bred owner opt to bring a third major league team to the New York City metro. The Yankees, Mets, and commissioner would freak out, then they can Google Al Davis and Pete Rozelle to see how that turned out without an antitrust exemption.
 
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golfortennis

Registered User
Oct 25, 2007
1,878
291
I'm a little late jumping into the conversation, but if I can throw out a few opinions (forgive me if these points have been argued already, just let me know):

1. It could be argued by purged (that's the term I've been going with) teams or cities that if they invested in stadium upgrades at the behest of their parent club or MLB's facility standards, MLB is in part responsible for that liability. It's not a hard argument to make: two parties have a contractual agreement, one party makes that agreement contingent upon an investment, and the second party makes that investment only to find the relationship terminated anyway. The attorneys would fight it out, but I imagine there are a few sympathetic judges out there that would see the purged teams' side.

2. @Centrum Hockey, I don't think that MLB's antitrust exposure is in purging 25% of MiLB teams but in their desire to control the entire baseball landscape. Consider this scenario, in which we'll focus on David Heller and Main Street Baseball, which owns one or two MiLB teams that will survive and two or three that will be purged: Lowell is on the chopping block, but let's say Heller really wants baseball to remain in the market. He has the resources, so he negotiates to buy a MiLB that survives the purge. Maybe those owners hate the new landscape of minor league ball, maybe Heller just makes an offer they can't refuse. Anyway, Heller plans to buy the team and move it to Lowell in order to resurrect the Spinners. Now MLB has already decided it didn't want Heller to own a team in Lowell, that's why the Spinners were purged, so MLB rejects the sale/move proposal. They can't argue ownership is unsatisfactory because Main Street Baseball also owns the Wilmington Blue Rocks, a surviving team in MiLB. The ballpark is good and the market is in a practical location. Any rationale MLB offers would be a transparent cover for, "We already said we didn't want him to own a team there." That's where MLB runs afoul of black-letter antitrust law without any logical or legal grounds beyond, "we said so." And while this specific scenario may not come to fruition, MLB has gone to great pains to decide which teams should exist and who they should be affiliated with. Minor league baseball's map has always been fluid; owners come and go, and markets pop up that want a team and they're willing to build a nice stadium to attract one. When MLB blocks transactions because they upset the carefully-planned pieces on their chessboard, the antitrust exemption will be at risk.

3. All that being said, it could be argued that MiLB actually benefits more from the antitrust exemption that MLB does. MiLB has carefully defined territorial rules, and leagues, teams, and prospective markets work within those rules. Without antitrust protection, there's nothing to keep a team from moving into another club's backyard. The Rays notwithstanding, MLB doesn't see much in the way of franchise relocation any more. And baseball's antitrust exemption for the most part only applies to franchise ownership and relocation; it made some antitrust concessions following the 1994 strike in the Curt Flood Act of 1998. Interestingly, the other way the minors could get hurt is that without the antitrust exemption, it has been suggested that assigning non-40-man roster players to minor league teams could be regarded as a restraint of trade, since those players are not members of a union and they have not been a party to collective bargaining to hand off those rights. Without an antitrust exemption, we might end up with a MiLB players union.

It's been said that MLB sees the other major leagues and how they do quite well without any antitrust protection, so they're not terribly worried about losing the exemption.

All of the above being said, I think it would be a fantastic comeuppance for MLB to smugly dismiss its antitrust exemption in this power grab for the minor leagues, and then see the Rays and their New York-bred owner opt to bring a third major league team to the New York City metro. The Yankees, Mets, and commissioner would freak out, then they can Google Al Davis and Pete Rozelle to see how that turned out without an antitrust exemption.

Great post Liebo. I am reading a book called "The Game", by John Pessah. It's basically Lords of the Realm from the time Fay Vincent suspended Steinbrenner to about 2014. One of the things the author keeps saying, and true or not true I don't know, but it's the fact Congress will never vote to repeal the anti-trust exemption, because it allows them to get themselves on TV when they call various baseball people in for hearings. Congress got a lot of mileage out of the steroids stuff, for example. It would be interesting to see if it ever was seriously debated.
 

KevFu

Registered User
May 22, 2009
9,272
3,501
Phoenix from Rochester via New Orleans
I know a bunch of people who work in minor league baseball. And most of them share my viewpoint on this.

Revamping the minors into a smaller, more streamlined system that makes more sense for everyone would be a GOOD THING.

But the way MLB has done this has been a cluster-eff trainwreck.


I laid out "what they should do" and my minor league lifer friends all said "yes, that'd be perfect" -- Four leagues of 8 teams each per level, in four regions: West, Central, Southeast, Northeast.
 

BigBadBruins7708

Registered User
Dec 11, 2017
13,841
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Las Vegas
I have no problem with MLB saying "we're not going to continue to support such a large and bloated minors system"

No other league in existence has a minor league system as large as baseball or the financial burden on the MLB teams. No one expects the NHL to pay for the CHL, or the NFL/NBA to pay for the NCAA system.

No reason why they cant go to the hockey style of minors for A and AA ball. Teams own the rights to the players, but the leagues themselves are independent and self sufficient.
 

GindyDraws

I will not disable my Adblock, HF
Mar 13, 2014
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I have no problem with MLB saying "we're not going to continue to support such a large and bloated minors system"

No other league in existence has a minor league system as large as baseball or the financial burden on the MLB teams. No one expects the NHL to pay for the CHL, or the NFL/NBA to pay for the NCAA system.

No reason why they cant go to the hockey style of minors for A and AA ball. Teams own the rights to the players, but the leagues themselves are independent and self sufficient.

Then you'll run into the troubles of insolvency, or teams playing outside of a geographical blueprint, or "co-op" franchises that are logistical nightmares for management of said teams.

It also sounds extremely like chicken farming; the MLB owns everything that makes money (the players), and the minor league teams are responsible for everything that costs money. If you're a minor league team, why the heck would you want to be part of something like that?
 

Big Z Man 1990

Registered User
Jun 4, 2011
2,594
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Don't say anything at all
If MLB really insists on these changes, they should at least divide AAA into 3 leagues.

The International League would consist exclusively of East Coast States teams, and the Pacific Coast League of teams in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones. A new league, the Heartland League, would contain the AAA teams in the Midwest and teams in non-East Coast Southern states (except for El Paso as it is in the Mountain Time Zone, if they are not demoted, they would remain in the PCL).
 

BigBadBruins7708

Registered User
Dec 11, 2017
13,841
18,830
Las Vegas
Then you'll run into the troubles of insolvency, or teams playing outside of a geographical blueprint, or "co-op" franchises that are logistical nightmares for management of said teams.

It also sounds extremely like chicken farming; the MLB owns everything that makes money (the players), and the minor league teams are responsible for everything that costs money. If you're a minor league team, why the heck would you want to be part of something like that?

Owning the player doesn't make the money though. The minor league teams still get the financial benefit of people paying to see the players, and the ability to market them.

It would be similar to the loan system in European soccer
 

Liebo

Registered User
May 7, 2018
16
15
@Big Z Man 1990: The MLBPA has made it clear over the years that the only party it cares about is its constituency, players on major league rosters. It has shown time and again that minor league and pre-draft players only matter in that a few of them end up being MLB players. It's the reason the MLBPA collectively bargained for a draft salary slotting and signing bonus pools, under the assertion that limiting money spent on draft signing bonuses means more money can be spent on big league contract. And if the MLBPA cared about the minors, minor league pay would have been increased years ago.

@BigBadBruins7708: You're absolutely right, minor league baseball's system is large. And widespread. And diverse. And none of the other major sports have anything that compares. But it's also fueled baseball's growth over the decades and contributed to making most every MLB team a billion-dollar asset. You cannot underestimate the value of fostering a fan base in every corner of the country and growing fans from a young age by making it easy to reach the sport on a personal level. Those fans that attend MiLB games as kids become adults who watch games; if there's a nearby MiLB team, they share the experience with their children and the cycle continues. At a time when baseball has to do everything it can to compete and grow the sport, MLB is willing to eliminate 25% of its direct community outreach--that is effectively a by-product of player development anyway. If baseball is willing to curtail fan development, other sports are happy to take those fans from them.

Make no mistake about what the purge is about: control. MLB has been spinning this as making the MiLB environment better for players, upgrading facilities, changing the travel demands, and putting affiliates closer to each other and/or the parent club. (The MLB argument that the purge is predicated on player facilities looks a little thin when they say Williamsport can host MLB players for their annual Little League Classic, but it can't have a MiLB team.) There has also been discussion that limiting affiliates allows organizations to pay a living wage (or close to it) to minor leaguers. But Major League Baseball has undertaken this purge to exercise complete control on minor league baseball. MLB owners believed they were making MiLB owners rich and they wanted more control the dynamic. Say what you want about St. Pete and Pat O'Connor, but the only reason to shutter MiLB offices and move the administration to New York is for control.

Someone said to me that in 1990, the last time MLB/MiLB negotiations went sour, minor league baseball took solace in the fact that it was negotiating with baseball people. Whatever they might be arguing about--that's when the first leap in facility standards were born--MiLB reps knew that in the end, MLB wanted what was good for the game. This time around, the lion's share of MLB negotiators are lawyers. They aren't negotiating to make the game of baseball better, just to win. And in their parlance, winning means being the last one standing, now matter how bloody you end up yourself.
 

Fenway

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Sep 26, 2007
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In Boston, we are hearing that the Red Sox have decided that their 4 clubs will be

Worcester AAA
Portland, ME AA
Salem, VA High A
Greenville, SC Low A

Lowell appears to be screwed.

Salem, VA is owned by the Red Sox and Greenville turned their park into a Fenway replica.

MLB also seems hell-bent to try and control the college wooden bat leagues

NYY going to Fishkill makes sense but Somerset over Trenton :huh:
 

DaBadGuy7

Registered User
Dec 28, 2004
2,502
1,236
Newark,NJ
In Boston, we are hearing that the Red Sox have decided that their 4 clubs will be

Worcester AAA
Portland, ME AA
Salem, VA High A
Greenville, SC Low A

Lowell appears to be screwed.

Salem, VA is owned by the Red Sox and Greenville turned their park into a Fenway replica.

MLB also seems hell-bent to try and control the college wooden bat leagues

NYY going to Fishkill makes sense but Somerset over Trenton :huh:

Some the articles and tweets I read the stadium at Bridgewater is better maintained and has better player facilities than Trenton as well being closer to YS in general.
 

Big Z Man 1990

Registered User
Jun 4, 2011
2,594
374
Don't say anything at all
Wichita's mayor should fight to keep the minors as is. It had taken the city over three decades to get back into AAA after the Aeros left in 1984. The city should start by enacting a law only allowing AAA baseball to be played at Riverfront Stadium, the new home of the Wind Surge.
 

Big Z Man 1990

Registered User
Jun 4, 2011
2,594
374
Don't say anything at all
If such a move backfires, it could force the Wind Surge to leave Wichita without ever playing a game in the city. In which case returning to New Orleans would be an option (unlike Kansas, Louisiana actually borders Texas).

Wichita will thus have to wait until another AAA team is on the verge of moving.
 

GindyDraws

I will not disable my Adblock, HF
Mar 13, 2014
2,921
2,210
Indianapolis
In Boston, we are hearing that the Red Sox have decided that their 4 clubs will be

Worcester AAA
Portland, ME AA
Salem, VA High A
Greenville, SC Low A

Lowell appears to be screwed.

Salem, VA is owned by the Red Sox and Greenville turned their park into a Fenway replica.

MLB also seems hell-bent to try and control the college wooden bat leagues

NYY going to Fishkill makes sense but Somerset over Trenton :huh:

I guess the Salem Red Sox are going to be in the new league with Hudson Valley.
 

Centrum Hockey

Registered User
Aug 2, 2018
2,092
728
Wichita's mayor should fight to keep the minors as is. It had taken the city over three decades to get back into AAA after the Aeros left in 1984. The city should start by enacting a law only allowing AAA baseball to be played at Riverfront Stadium, the new home of the Wind Surge.

If such a move backfires, it could force the Wind Surge to leave Wichita without ever playing a game in the city. In which case returning to New Orleans would be an option (unlike Kansas, Louisiana actually borders Texas).

Wichita will thus have to wait until another AAA team is on the verge of moving.
If one of the 30 MLB teams wanted Wichita as their AAA team they would still be in AAA.
 

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
69,351
101,309
Cambridge, MA
NJ_TTT.jpg
 

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
69,351
101,309
Cambridge, MA
:popcorn::popcorn:

https://nypost.com/2020/11/09/staten-island-yankees-shocked-big-league-team-dumped-them/

“After careful consideration of locations in New York City, our ballpark was approved by the New York Yankees and built in St. George, Staten Island by the City of New York,” Smith said in a statement. “It was planned and agreed-to in 1999 for the express purpose of hosting New York Yankees professional Minor League Baseball. We are shocked at the developments from this past weekend, and we believe what has happened to our organization is unacceptable.”

Staten Island Borough President James Oddo said he has been working collaboratively in recent months with the New York City Economic Development Corporation (EDC), New York Yankees, Major League Baseball and the Atlantic League to ensure that Staten Island will remain home to a professional baseball team.

The Atlantic League is a professional, independent baseball league that recently partnered with Major League Baseball to become an official “MLB Partner League.”


Shocked Staten Island Yankees say ‘what has happened to our organization is unacceptable’
 

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