OT: MLB Discussion Thread Part IV: Tanaka Injured

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I don't buy hitting coaches having that kind of influence. Who were you expecting to hit? Old and decaying: Jeter, Teixeira, Beltran, McCann, Suzuki. That's not even counting Soriano and Roberts, who got cut. Then you have Stephen Drew, who has been awful with two different teams this year. They bought low on Headley, who has been meh.

At some point having a complete dearth of major league ready hitters in your system is going to bit you in the ass. This is that point.

It goes back years.... it's not just this year... Long has helped no one

 

[Zil]

It goes back years.... it's not just this year... Long has helped no one

I really don't know how you measure that. What hitters have come through and underperformed because of something other than age and injuries? They haven't had a top young hitter for him to mess up even if Long is that bad.

 

[Fletch]

I really don't know how you measure that. What hitters have come through and underperformed because of something other than age and injuries? They haven't had a top young hitter for him to mess up even if Long is that bad.

This is all really subjective. I cannot give a concrete examples, but vets have changed their stance/approach from time to time and made other adjustments suggested by the hitting staff that seemed to have worked/not worked. But again, it's tough for me to measure from watching on the TV/reading the papers because I'm sure from day-to-day he's working with players, watching film, viewing mechanics, etc., far more than I get to see, and for me, I honestly cannot measure the results (I make the assumption it's a full-time job). Pretty much like Girardi as coach. I tend to not be a fan. Never was. Some talk about coach of the year. The reason they say that is optics - they're floundering in a playoff race despite having $100MM+ of their payroll sit out the season, or whatever the number may be. Now he's more in-line with what the average coach has to work, but in YankeesLand it stands out more. So, was it him he made the pitching work in order for the Yankees to be somewhere in the hunt in August? How much credit goes to the player and the staff who drafted/traded for these pitchers? Evaluating coaches is a tough thing to do. But at the end of the season when you spend $200MM+ a few years in a row and the product is, meh, someone needs to shoulder blame, be it coach or GM or owner.

 

[Zil]

This is all really subjective. I cannot give a concrete examples, but vets have changed their stance/approach from time to time and made other adjustments suggested by the hitting staff that seemed to have worked/not worked. But again, it's tough for me to measure from watching on the TV/reading the papers because I'm sure from day-to-day he's working with players, watching film, viewing mechanics, etc., far more than I get to see, and for me, I honestly cannot measure the results (I make the assumption it's a full-time job). Pretty much like Girardi as coach. I tend to not be a fan. Never was. Some talk about coach of the year. The reason they say that is optics - they're floundering in a playoff race despite having $100MM+ of their payroll sit out the season, or whatever the number may be. Now he's more in-line with what the average coach has to work, but in YankeesLand it stands out more. So, was it him he made the pitching work in order for the Yankees to be somewhere in the hunt in August? How much credit goes to the player and the staff who drafted/traded for these pitchers? Evaluating coaches is a tough thing to do. But at the end of the season when you spend $200MM+ a few years in a row and the product is, meh, someone needs to shoulder blame, be it coach or GM or owner.

I think the blame pretty squarely falls on their front office. They're the ones who threw all these giant contracts at older players and sacrificed bunches of first round picks in the process. The last decent position player to come up with the Yankees is Brett Gardner. He's 31 years old. That's generally not a good sign for your drafting and development departments.

 

[Fletch]

I think the blame pretty squarely falls on their front office. They're the ones who threw all these giant contracts at older players and sacrificed bunches of first round picks in the process. The last decent position player to come up with the Yankees is Brett Gardner. He's 31 years old. That's generally not a good sign for your drafting and development departments.

I can't disagree with that. I've wondered for a long time why Cashman has a job.

 

[Fugazy]

I can't disagree with that. I've wondered for a long time why Cashman has a job.

The entire mindset of the organization needs to change. They can't expect to keep bringing in these patchwork players year in and year out and expect sustained success. I would be fine if they sucked for a couple of years as long as they were committed to bringing in young talent for the long haul.

 

[Fletch]

The entire mindset of the organization needs to change. They can't expect to keep bringing in these patchwork players year in and year out and expect sustained success. I would be fine if they sucked for a couple of years as long as they were committed to bringing in young talent for the long haul.

unfortunately, they already have sucked for a few seasons.

 

[Fugazy]

unfortunately, they already have sucked for a few seasons.

I'm aware. I just wish the organization had some direction and had some prospects that would actually pan out once in a while.

 

[RangerBoy]

Damon Oppenheimer and Mark Newman run the scouting and minor league departments respectively. I think Newman is in the last year of his contract. The Yankees are afraid to have a down year because there is too much money involved. They will be bidding on Lester or Scherzer this winter. CC is a big question mark. Tanaka is a bigger question mark. The media has the same mentality. Spend more money. Kay wants the Yankees to sign both free agent pitchers. Francesa is the same way. Go buy Lester. Kay keeps selling the dream about the Yankees making the playoffs and making a run. Mike needs people to watch him on television.

 

[Fletch]

Damon Oppenheimer and Mark Newman run the scouting and minor league departments respectively. I think Newman is in the last year of his contract. The Yankees are afraid to have a down year because there is too much money involved. They will be bidding on Lester or Scherzer this winter. CC is a big question mark. Tanaka is a bigger question mark. The media has the same mentality. Spend more money. Kay wants the Yankees to sign both free agent pitchers. Francesa is the same way. Go buy Lester. Kay keeps selling the dream about the Yankees making the playoffs and making a run. Mike needs people to watch him on television.

what is there to sell next season? Had Jeter retired last season, there probably wouldn't be too many packing the stands on a nightly basis as the team still likely wouldn't be a consistent winner and there wouldn't be a farewell tour. Next season can be a big hangover year. You saw Posada, Pettitte, Mariano and Jeter retire and Cano was let free to walk. Tanaka's arm may not last, CC hasn't had a good season in how long and is only getting older. Teix's body is breaking down. A-Rod is back. As you said, buy some free agents and there's a reason to come to the Stadium. Create an illusion of winning to begin the season. Keep buying talent while trying to replenish youth that was lost. If you have the money, and the rules permit, use it to your advantage while you can.

 

[Cassano]

The entire mindset of the organization needs to change. They can't expect to keep bringing in these patchwork players year in and year out and expect sustained success. I would be fine if they sucked for a couple of years as long as they were committed to bringing in young talent for the long haul.

I wouldn't. The Yankees don't need to tank to become a great team again. They just need some bats at SS/2B/RF and their healthy starting pitching. Filling in those positions won't cost years of ineptitude because it is a quick fix option.

 

[NYR Viper]

I wouldn't. The Yankees don't need to tank to become a great team again. They just need some bats at SS/2B/RF and their healthy starting pitching. Filling in those positions won't cost years of ineptitude because it is a quick fix option.

They also need a 3B and a healthy 1B. So really, they are all set at CF, LF and C only. Good start.

 

[Cassano]

They also need a 3B and a healthy 1B. So really, they are all set at CF, LF and C only. Good start.

Headley?

 

[NYR Viper]

Headley?

UFA

ARod is back next year. Will he stay to be a platoon player?

 

[Cassano]

UFA

ARod is back next year. Will he stay to be a platoon player?

Having ARod back means nothing imo. He'll have to earn a spot in the lineup having been away from the game for a year. Having competition is a good thing

 

[NYR Viper]

Having ARod back means nothing imo. He'll have to earn a spot in the lineup having been away from the game for a year. Having competition is a good thing

If you are Chase Headley, do you re-sign with the Yankees who have a $30 million 3B already, away from the game for a year or not, and risk being nothing more than a bench player.

If you are the Yankees and already have the most expensive 3B in the league, do you risk paying Headley decent money to have him sit on the bench if ARod is healthy?

 

[BroadwayStorm]

The Yankees have the luxury to remain competitive because of money while still developing young talent. But somehow they just don't develop good young talent as much as other teams who NEED to. The Yankees have the resources to poach the best scouts and minors staff in the league and they seem to stick to the same old fools. I am kind of tired of Cashman too. He seems to have run his course. I want to see what a hungrier younger GM does with the Yankee resources. Can the Yanks bring up just one, just one really good player for once. Gardner and Robertson cannot be all there is.

 

[nyrleetch]

If you are Chase Headley, do you re-sign with the Yankees who have a $30 million 3B already, away from the game for a year or not, and risk being nothing more than a bench player.

If you are the Yankees and already have the most expensive 3B in the league, do you risk paying Headley decent money to have him sit on the bench if ARod is healthy?

I think if Headley comes back, they will found a way to give him 130+ games etc... Arod probably would DH a decent amount of games, Tex is always hurt...

 

[nyrleetch]

Also Yankees back under -30 run differential. So there's that.

 

[Cassano]

If you are Chase Headley, do you re-sign with the Yankees who have a $30 million 3B already, away from the game for a year or not, and risk being nothing more than a bench player.

If you are the Yankees and already have the most expensive 3B in the league, do you risk paying Headley decent money to have him sit on the bench if ARod is healthy?

If I am Chase Headley, I wouldn't be threatened with losing my job to a declining 40 year old who's been out of the game for one year. If I was scared of that, then there's little hope for me to accomplish much more in my career.

 

[NYR Viper]

If I am Chase Headley, I wouldn't be threatened with losing my job to a declining 40 year old who's been out of the game for one year. If I was scared of that, then there's little hope for me to accomplish much more in my career.

You disregarded the part that he is making 30 million a year and would pretty much be forced to play.

The DH idea is a decent idea, however even if ARod can't hit, which is possible, he most likely is still an average to above average 3b. That was a strength of his, so we should just let him hit (which will most likely be ugly) but not let him field (which may be his only decent attribute)?

Believe me, if they could dump ARod, I would sign Headley in a second. He seems like an old-school Yankee. Quiet, goes about his business, strong all-around game.

 

[RGY]

Headley isnt coming back. Prado will still be here for 2B. Drew has had a terrible year. The Yankees could re-sign him on the cheap to play SS. They have a nice prospect in the minors who they are high on who plays 2B, i believe spelled Reinsdorf. Prado could spell ARod at third. Headley can play regularly for another club as much as I like his defense.

Save the money and put towards a SP. But after that theres not much to bring in.

 

[Fletch]

You disregarded the part that he is making 30 million a year and would pretty much be forced to play.

The DH idea is a decent idea, however even if ARod can't hit, which is possible, he most likely is still an average to above average 3b. That was a strength of his, so we should just let him hit (which will most likely be ugly) but not let him field (which may be his only decent attribute)?

Believe me, if they could dump ARod, I would sign Headley in a second. He seems like an old-school Yankee. Quiet, goes about his business, strong all-around game.

but the question would be is there room for Headley to play 120-130 games next season, between 3rd (A-Rod at DH, or perhaps getting a turn at SS), perhaps some time at first since Teix will play 85 games next season, and perhaps some time himself as the DH? As a manager you might sit there and say, A-Rod may not be healthy the entire season. They could be looking at a permanent 3rd baseman mid-season, or sooner. Who really knows. Of course a guy like Headley isn't going to count on injuries to get into the game, but management would be thinking realistically and would the $$$ make sense. A-rod is such an albatross. The realistic route is to go with the guys they have, cutback spending and risk the season, but with the likelihood of a Jeter retirement hangover and possible down ticket sales, while already being committed to oodles of money to A-Rod and CC, spending a bit more to help recover those costs may be what is done.

 

[Fugazy]

I wouldn't. The Yankees don't need to tank to become a great team again. They just need some bats at SS/2B/RF and their healthy starting pitching. Filling in those positions won't cost years of ineptitude because it is a quick fix option.

The bottomline is they need to start producing young talent from the farm system again. The core of the dynasty teams in the late 90's came from the farm system and they strategically built around them.

 

[nyr2k2]

The bottomline is they need to start producing young talent from the farm system again. The core of the dynasty teams in the late 90's came from the farm system and they strategically built around them.

Correct. The market dynamics have changed. Top-tier free agents rarely hit the market nowadays (or come with huge question marks), and the cost to acquire one via trade is always very high in young talent. To be successful, a team really needs to either develop young talent for themselves or to use to acquire established talent from other organizations.

Gone are the days where a team can buy their way to any kind of sustained success. I think you can buy a short period of high-caliber play at the team level, but you'll soon find yourself paying huge money to guys that are old and terribly overpaid.