Prospect Info: Mitch Marner Discussion Thread

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FrozenJagrt

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There seems to be a degree of uncertainty around Marner that doesn't seem to be there for Matthews & Nylander.

Most feel Auston and Willie will have no trouble locking down roster spots and expectations for both seem high for successful rookie seasons ahead even competing for the Calder potentially.

With Mitch the full spectrum of expectations seems present from competing equally as well as his pals above to being used as depth player/13th forward to a 9 game trial to even returning to junior.

After the season Marner just had he should be viewed the same but he isn't.. Why ?
Quite simply, Toronto isn't allowed to have nice things and certain people will do anything they can to find even a hint of weakness. And when they find that thing, they latch on and won't shut up about it.

I promise you, if in ten years Marner is scoring 65-75 points a year, there will still be people saying he's too small to be effective.
 

stewpac

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It's clear that certain people only saw him at the world juniors. He played well but clearly not the best we've seen from him. I've been lucky enough to have watch mariner for three years in london, where he has grown in to the type of player you dream of be on your team. I get if some people aren't sure of him and that's fine but to consistently put him down because he was only good not great at a tournament is ridiculous. I for one am extremely excited to have a player like mitch on the leafs and sad to see him leave London. When people see the heart and desire from him, even the doubters will become huge fans.
 

ULF_55

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There is nothing tangible to be inferred from a sample size of five games, especially when compared with two full seasons of play.

This 'discussion' wouldn't even be happening if Marner was 2 inches taller. Get over it.

Perhaps people think he should be as dominant in International tournaments as he is on a Club team.

But on a Club team he's facing much weaker competition, similar to playing teams that are fringe hockey nations in the WJC.

Finland, Russia, Sweden, Slovaki, USA are better than all the Club teams CHL teams face. It is or should be expected you can score easier against Oshawa, or Red Deer, or ... than a hockey nations national team.

But yes, I would say scouts, GM, coaches scout the WJC to see how players stack up against the best players in their age group and how they handle pressure situations.

I'd speculate it can influences scouting reports, according to Korshkov:
They were so overshadowed by the Finnish superline that few casual fans noticed them. Scouts were noticing Korshkov, however. He told the Russian press that more than one NHL team was interested in him and had scouted him in Finland.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/t...toronto-maple-leafs-draft-pick-yegor-korshkov

Is Marner ready? He should be, this is draft+1 and against CHL club teams he is dominant, that he can't handle a small role in the NHL shouldn't even be a question.

What is his contract situation? ;)
 

ULF_55

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Do you think Marner will be in the discussion for the Calder this year?

He should be, but this could be quite the season for the Calder race.

Hands up those who thought Panarin would be in the competition for the Calder this year?

There could be 3 from this draft alone, along with players like Nylander who were held back for more seasoning, and then those guys like Panarin coming out of nowhere.

While I will use the latter to dictate eligibility, I have amended the age for the former. Because we know that a player is no longer a prospect at age 26, and the average NHL player begins to decline between the age of 26 and 30, the criteria for this ranking will dictate that a player must be 24 years old or younger by the start of his rookie season.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/7/20/12212480/2016-top-60-drafted-nhl-prospects-ranking

Marner could be in the race for the Calder or another Memorial Cup appearance.
 

studebaker17

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Not me and I've clearly indicated that. I'm looking for him to be wildly successful as a Leaf. I'm just not sure it's going to be for another couple of years so why rush him. Let him show in the best of the best he can perform.

Sending him down to CHL will just stall development not make him grow as a player. The only way he learns to play against better competition is actually play against better competition.
 

93LEAFS

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Perhaps people think he should be as dominant in International tournaments as he is on a Club team.

But on a Club team he's facing much weaker competition, similar to playing teams that are fringe hockey nations in the WJC.

Finland, Russia, Sweden, Slovaki, USA are better than all the Club teams CHL teams face. It is or should be expected you can score easier against Oshawa, or Red Deer, or ... than a hockey nations national team.

But yes, I would say scouts, GM, coaches scout the WJC to see how players stack up against the best players in their age group and how they handle pressure situations.

I'd speculate it can influences scouting reports, according to Korshkov:
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/t...toronto-maple-leafs-draft-pick-yegor-korshkov

Is Marner ready? He should be, this is draft+1 and against CHL club teams he is dominant, that he can't handle a small role in the NHL shouldn't even be a question.

What is his contract situation? ;)
In Korshkov's case (and in all non-chl russian's cases) they have to be heavily scouted at international events for multiple reasons. First is, a team usually has no more than 2 full-time scouts (not counting birds) in Russia, so to get multiple viewings of a prospect you haven't zeroed in on is difficult. Secondly, Russian club teams aren't very co-operative with North-American scouts, so getting viewings of practices and closed sessions is difficult, and coaches are rarely forthright with the info they share. This creates a very different dynamic than scouting anywhere else in the world.

As for Marner, he was fine at the WJC. It is great to see a prospect light it up there, but its way too hard to draw a negative conclusion off of 6 games in the middle of the season, on am unfamiliar ice surface, half-way across the world. While I will give credit to people who excel in this situation, I rarely use it to knock a guy, unless his performance was absolutely embarrassing (Virtanen this year).
 

Mess

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He should be, but this could be quite the season for the Calder race.

There could be 3 from this draft alone, along with players like Nylander who were held back for more seasoning, and then those guys like Panarin coming out of nowhere.

Marner could be in the race for the Calder or another Memorial Cup appearance.

That was my earlier point of all over the spectrum with Marner ranging from competing for the Calder, to being returned to junior and everything inbetween.

Competing for Calder = extreme excitement
verses
Returned to Junior = larger level of growing concern and disappointment.

If you win every junior award & MVP and a national championship, then taking the NHL by storm is not an unreasonable expectation. If after accomplishing all that, and you get cut and sent back to junior then doubt and a level of concern is also not unreasonable.
 

Teeder9

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Sending him back to the OHL is like sending someone with a Bachelor's degree back to 9th grade before they try for their Master's. It's a huge "wtf is the point" moment. Young players don't have to be given top minutes to be in the NHL. Lots of teams shelter their rookies because it's still far better to learn from NHL players while getting 6 minutes a game in the Off zone than 20 minutes a game against kids in the offensive zone, which is where he'll be in junior
 

ULF_55

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As for Marner, he was fine at the WJC. It is great to see a prospect light it up there, but its way too hard to draw a negative conclusion off of 6 games in the middle of the season, on am unfamiliar ice surface, half-way across the world. While I will give credit to people who excel in this situation, I rarely use it to knock a guy, unless his performance was absolutely embarrassing (Virtanen this year).

No doubt it is more difficult for players to cross the ocean, either way, and be dominant on unfamiliar ice.

Canada has 1 gold in the last 7 WJC, and only medaled 4 times.

Canada isn't sending superior teams to these competition anymore so players like Strome and Marner aren't going to have cakewalks in these tournaments.

Takes more than a couple elite players to win.
 

SnazzyNazzy

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Funny how it's a team sport when the team is terrible but an individual sport when the team is good.

Bottom line. When the game gets better good players rise to the top.

What a joke. He's produced no matter who he's played with in London. Try again.
 

ACC1224

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Hopefully this trend continues on to the Leafs and pro level.

Not all great junior players become great NHL players.

Obviously nothing is 100%.
Are you thinking of great players or great point producers?

Which great players are you thinking of?
 

Willchel Marlynder

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So it begs the question then. If he's not ready what do you do? You say you can't send him back. What do you do?

Babcock thinks Marner will have "a real good chance" of making the team. I think it's safe to say he makes the team. They won't send him back period. I think people put more stock in his amazing back to back CHL performances than they do in a small 5-7 game tourney.
 

ACC1224

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There seems to be a degree of uncertainty around Marner that doesn't seem to be there for Matthews & Nylander.

Most feel Auston and Willie will have no trouble locking down roster spots and expectations for both seem high for successful rookie seasons ahead even competing for the Calder potentially.

With Mitch the full spectrum of expectations seems present from competing equally as well as his pals above to being used as depth player/13th forward to a 9 game trial to even returning to junior.

After the season Marner just had he should be viewed the same but he isn't.. Why ?

There only seem to be a few doubters, one with multiple personalities.
 

Mr Hockey*

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Babcock thinks Marner will have "a real good chance" of making the team. I think it's safe to say he makes the team. They won't send him back period. I think people put more stock in his amazing back to back CHL performances than they do in a small 5-7 game tourney.

When asked about his odds of making the team, Babcock sounded optimistic. "You are who you are, so be the best Mitch you can possibly be. He's got a lot of summer here left, and he's got to keep working at it, but he'll have a real good chance to make the Leafs."
 

SnazzyNazzy

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I get it now, its his fault that he was the best player on the best OHL team, and its also his fault he was the best player on a bad Team Canada.
 

ULF_55

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Some Leaf fans believe Eichel and Marner are on the same level, and Eichel is playing in the World Cup U23.

Which fans believe that?

Not even close. He's not even in Matthews and Laines ballpark at this point.


So where would we rank Marner amongst these players?

McDavid
Eichel
Matthews
Laine
Marner

McDavid>Eichel>Matthews>Laine>Marner

Very good company to be ranked in, but how about tiers?

T1. McDavid
T2. Eichel-Matthews
T3. Laine-Marner
 

93LEAFS

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If a player is just "fine" don't you want to see if he can make the next step and be better than "fine". The WJC is a great place to see where you are amongst your peers. It's exactly why it's heavily scouted. Being "fine" isn't a good thing.
It is heavily scouted because a bunch of players are there, and it probably isn't as heavily scouted as you think, as the major events are actually Hlinka and U-18, as not many draft eligibles are even at the WJC. He was more than fine, he was the top scorer on his team, and you are making the classic mistake of weighing 6 games too heavily. Compare what Marner did to other recent 4th overall picks, and it doesn't stand out as bad.

How do you know? It's been 90% with Dvorak. And Domi and Tkachuk.
You actually don't know what you are talking about. He actually didn't play well with Domi, and considering how heavily you like to weigh 6 games, I guess you should look at last years playoffs where he played with Rupert and Sterk and put up 16 points in 7 games, while the Domi-Dvorak line didn't click.

Or the fact he had a great 16 year old season, barely playing with either.
 

studebaker17

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Jan 24, 2010
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So it begs the question then. If he's not ready what do you do? You say you can't send him back. What do you do?

I don't send him down unless it's overwhelmingly obvious he's not ready. Even just practicing with the nhl club will have a better long term effect than CHL hockey will. He needs to learn the pro game and to learn how to play against pro players and that won't happen in junior. The expectations are all over the map on how well he'll do in the NHL and really anything could happen but imo people need to temper their expectations and realize no matter what he does, he's going to learn more in the NHL than anywhere else. Sending him down is just stalling that process another year needlessly and maybe even more if he went the AHL route next year.
 

93LEAFS

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Do your homework. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
No, you actually don't. Look at who Marner played with in the playoffs, whcih was Sterk and Rupert, and he still was the best-producing player on the knights. Why don't you show your numbers if you actually ran them. And also explain his high-end production as a 16 year old playing very limited minutes with either Domi or Dvorak, who you seem to be crediting his success with.
 

Mr Hockey*

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Hunter spoke of noticing how well and noticeable Yegor Korshkov was at the WJCU20.
 
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