Prospect Info: Mitch Marner Discussion Thread

[diceman934]

While I don't agree with almost all of what TedEBear and Mr Hockey are saying (Marner has elite potential and its better for his development to learn from Babs and grow with our other young guns than go back to junior and dominate for a third time), I think they're right with the Marner-Laine comparison.

McDavid - might be the best player ever from a raw skills perspective

Eichel/Matthews - franchise players

Puljujarvi/Laine - perennial all-stars

Marner/Nylander/Strome - elite

I think these guys are the best from the 96/97 age group, and we have 3/8 of them which is ridiculous.

And i disagree. ..i see Marner as a franchise player....better then Nylander and Strome and having a far better over all game then the others listed ahead of him...Mathews being the only possible exception.

 

[King Leaf]

More or less my thought - Marner's future as a bluechip means his development simply needs to take higher prioritis over things.

If he looks not quite 100% NHL ready - they can just give him essentially 4th line usage (like what Seguin did his first season) at like 10ish min a game, and then maybe even send him down to the AHL on a "conditioning stint" for a handful of games.

Agreed; in a results-based world people don't always get exactly what they deserve. Yes we need to develop a culture of pride and hard work, but it's in the best long term interest of our team to prioritize Mitch's development.

Only thing he has on all of them is size and skating. Marner kills him in puck control and general elusiveness with the puck. Puljujarvi doesn't strike me as a guy who can slow the game down with the puck.

I don't want to turn this into a Puljujarvi vs Marner thing, so let's agree to disagree I still like Marner better though! He's more my kind of player.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

In a nutshell, that it might be better for him to go back to Junior and you think he's probably not ready for the NHL (mostly citing the WJC as a demonstration of that). That's about it right?

While I think that Marner IS ready for the NHL and could definitely put up 40 points this season (which is great for a rookie) even if he has a slow start. And I will concede there is no way to know for sure if he's ready or not without seeing him actually play in the NHL, but even if he has an average showing at camp, he should still make the team.

1) Training Camp shouldn't completely overshadow all of his other achievements; even the oft-cited WJC tourney where Marner wasn't his best self, he was one of the best players on his team and had an absolutely dominant stretch when the entire tournament was on the line for Canada.

2) He is an elite asset that has a very high chance at being an extremely dynamic and productive NHL-er and therefore his development is a bigger priority than what he deserves based on camp. I also think it's ridiculous that people have such a black/white way of looking at that. 'He has to dominate at camp to make the team, he has to earn it' is a very narrow way of looking at the situation. Mitch is a good kid and a hardworking player with an incredible set of raw skills who achieved more than most players his age get to. He is not like Brown, or Sosh, or Hyman, or any of those guys. If he had attitude problems and was prone to being lazy, then I'd be wary. He isn't that guy though.

3) is the NHL the ideal situation for him? I don't think so, I think it would have been perfect if he had the opportunity to play in the AHL like Willy and get called up sporadically. Unfortunately that's not an option, so the NHL is the next best league for his development.

I don't really see how you can see it any other way to be honest, when you watch him play in the OHL it's clear that he's on a completely different level than 95% of the
players there, if not more. And we need him to constantly be learning.

I am saying this ...

• If Mitch makes the team, thats great... if not, he will make it next season.
• If Mitch is not good enough to play in the NHL, he should go back to London
• If mitch is good enough to make the leafs, he still may be sent back to London, leaf roster issues
• Plenty of improvements can be made by Mitch if sent back to London
• His awards, points, PPG, memorial cup, etc does not guarantee him a roster spot. Just ask Lou
• It is "possible" his stats are affected by the team and players he is on
• Mitch has struggled to be Mitch at the U20 level
• ?
• I am trying to think of anything else?

If I am missing something, please anyone place the quote here ...

 

[saltming]

Puljujarvi does not belong in the same tier as Laine, and above Marner, Nylander and Strome.

Puljujarvi absolutely belongs in the same teir as Laine. They were neck and neck through the year in draft rankings. Their careers will also be close.
That said I would also put nylander and marner in that teir.
McDavid

Matthews eichel

Nylander Laine Puljivari marner

 

[al secord]

I am saying this ...

• If Mitch makes the team, thats great... if not, he will make it next season.
• If Mitch is not good enough to play in the NHL, he should go back to London
• If mitch is good enough to make the leafs, he still may be sent back to London, leaf roster issues
• Plenty of improvements can be made by Mitch if sent back to London
• His awards, points, PPG, memorial cup, etc does not guarantee him a roster spot. Just ask Lou
• It is "possible" his stats are affected by the team and players he is on
• Mitch has struggled to be Mitch at the U20 level
• ?
• I am trying to think of anything else?

If I am missing something, please anyone place the quote here ...

Outside of your ridiculous U20 bullet, you're right.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

And i disagree. ..i see Marner as a franchise player....better then Nylander and Strome and having a far better over all game then the others listed ahead of him...Mathews being the only possible exception.

So Mitch has the better game than?

• McDavid
• Eichel
• Puljujarvi
• Laine
• Nylander
• Strome

 

[diceman934]

Puljujarvi does not belong in the same tier as Laine, and above Marner, Nylander and Strome.

I think that Puljujari is better then Laine overall when you compare their whole game. Better skater by a wide margin. Better defensively and can create his own offence. It is close but neither are franchise type players. Their play away from the puck will set them apart...in my eyes.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Outside of your ridiculous U20 bullet, you're right.

I expected Mitch to challenge for the U20 tourney lead in points and to look dominate, he did neither accept the last game, in my opinion.

I have known I have been right from the beginning lol. Its not easy discussing with people that have ego's, unrealistic and uninformed opinions ...

 

[al secord]

I expected Mitch to challenge for the U20 tourney lead in points and to look dominate, he did neither accept the last game, in my opinion.

I have known I have been right from the beginning lol. Its not easy discussing with people that have ego's, unrealistic and uninformed opinions ...

I'm sure the people wasting their time arguing with you feel the same.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I expected Mitch to challenge for the U20 tourney lead in points and to look dominate, he did neither accept the last game, in my opinion.

I have known I have been right from the beginning lol. Its not easy discussing with people that have ego's, unrealistic and uninformed opinions ...

So you have decided to post over 1400 posts in 2 months to tell us about it?

What exactly are you right about? 1 tournament he was average in? That trumps his entire season of awesomeness?

Why did McDavid only have 1 goal in 10 games in the WC? I guess he can't shoot the puck and he is only a play maker and PP specialist? Sounds stupid doesn't it?

Sergei Kostitsyn just out scored Kopitar in Olympic qualifying, he is better than Kopitar . Zaitsev outscored Kostitsyn in the KHL, as a defensemen, I guess we scored the next Paul Coffey!!

 

[Purity*]

Puljujarvi absolutely belongs in the same teir as Laine. They were neck and neck through the year in draft rankings. Their careers will also be close.
That said I would also put nylander and marner in that teir.
McDavid

Matthews eichel

Nylander Laine Puljivari marner

People seriously need to stop writing off Puljujarvi just because Columbus foolishly passed on him.

Kid's got a world-class skillset.

 

[Purity*]

And i disagree. ..i see Marner as a franchise player....better then Nylander and Strome and having a far better over all game then the others listed ahead of him...Mathews being the only possible exception.

Marner seperated himself from Strome when they went head to head IMO.

People really need to go back and rewatch the Eerie vs London series. The detractors can make the excuse all they want of "but but but Marner was on a deadly team" as if Strome wasn't on one either.

Fact is, head to head Marner utterly destroyed Strome.

And yes, he is a franchise level talent no doubt about it. Anyone who is trying to say otherwise is either A) trolling or B) kidding themselves.

 

[ULF_55]

Outside of your ridiculous U20 bullet, you're right.

I'm not sure it is correct to say he struggled U20, more that he wasn't as good as others.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

What exactly are you right about? 1 tournament he was average in? That trumps his entire season of awesomeness?

Why did McDavid only have 1 goal in 10 games in the WC? I guess he can't shoot the puck and he is only a play maker and PP specialist? Sounds stupid doesn't it?

Sergei Kostitsyn just out scored Kopitar in Olympic qualifying, he is better than Kopitar . Zaitsev outscored Kostitsyn in the KHL, as a defensemen, I guess we scored the next Paul Coffey!!

I am saying this ...

• If Mitch makes the team, thats great... if not, he will make it next season.
• If Mitch is not good enough to play in the NHL, he should go back to London
• If mitch is good enough to make the leafs, he still may be sent back to London, leaf roster issues
• Plenty of improvements can be made by Mitch if sent back to London
• His awards, points, PPG, memorial cup, etc does not guarantee him a roster spot. Just ask Lou
• It is "possible" his stats are affected by the team and players he is on
• Mitch has struggled to be Mitch at the U20 level
• ?
• I am trying to think of anything else?

If I am missing something, please anyone place the quote here ...

You are upset because my opinion is that "Mitch has struggled to be Mitch at the U20 level"?

 

[King Leaf]

I am saying this ...

• If Mitch makes the team, thats great... if not, he will make it next season.
• If Mitch is not good enough to play in the NHL, he should go back to London
• If mitch is good enough to make the leafs, he still may be sent back to London, leaf roster issues
• Plenty of improvements can be made by Mitch if sent back to London
• His awards, points, PPG, memorial cup, etc does not guarantee him a roster spot. Just ask Lou
• It is "possible" his stats are affected by the team and players he is on
• Mitch has struggled to be Mitch at the U20 level
• ?
• I am trying to think of anything else?

If I am missing something, please anyone place the quote here ...

I somewhat agree with a lot of those points. But again, my main point is, it's better for his development to play in the NHL with Matthews and Nylander and the other youngsters, and to learn from Babcock. His development is more important that some potential roster issues, which I do see happening because we have a ton players coming through the pipeline. But his ceiling is way beyond those other players.

Also Lou would never outwardly say that a player will just get a spot on the team, but the process is also a little more complicated than simply 'the 12-14 forwards that play the best at camp make the team'.

The main question (and only question of any consequence) is what's better for Mitch's development, the NHL or the OHL?

 

[Babcocks Marner]

You are upset because my opinion is that "Mitch has struggled to be Mitch at the U20 level"?

Confused, not upset.

6 points in 5 games in struggling? If Marner struggled, who excelled?

 

[Leafsrock95]

I think Mitch will stick and have a season similar too Ehlers rookie year but with better all round game and more assists.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

I somewhat agree with a lot of those points. But again, my main point is, it's better for his development to play in the NHL with Matthews and Nylander and the other youngsters, and to learn from Babcock. His development is more important that some potential roster issues, which I do see happening because we have a ton players coming through the pipeline. But his ceiling is way beyond those other players.

Also Lou would never outwardly say that a player will just get a spot on the team, but the process is also a little more complicated than simply 'the 12-14 forwards that play the best at camp make the team'.

The main question (and only question of any consequence) is what's better for Mitch's development, the NHL or the OHL?

This is my "opinion" and dont get upset ....

Everything is going to depend on how he does in camp. If he is overmatched against Nhl players, I do not see a benefit to keeping him with the leafs.

I think we need Mitch to tear the NHL up in about 3 years from now when we will be a strong playoff team. I dont see a need to rush him this season, we do not need him to make us a better team just yet. Like Dubas/Lou has said, they will not keep any rookie unless they are ready.

Again this me having a discussion about Mitch, I am not attacking him.

 

[Menzinger]

Confused, not upset.

6 points in 5 games in struggling? If Marner struggled, who excelled?

Hey now, don't let tangible evidnece get in the way of somebody's subjective opinion

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Confused, not upset.

6 points in 5 games in struggling? If Marner struggled, who excelled?

If you expected Mitch to play like everyone else on Canada thats fine, my expectations of Mitch are obviously higher than yours. Not really much more for us to discuss

 

[diceman934]

Confused, not upset.

6 points in 5 games in struggling? If Marner struggled, who excelled?

Lol 1.20 ppg and .80 goals per game is struggling...i hope he struggles like this the rest of his career...

I hope all the people who think that he will not be a Leaf player this year will agree to not post in any thread about him.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

If you expected Mitch to play like everyone else on Canada thats fine, my expectations of Mitch are obviously higher than yours. Not really much more for us to discuss

I don't think Mitch payed as well, or as dominate as he could. However, it's a team sport, and a single tournament, and he still went over PPG. He played better than Strome, which you seem to like over Mitch, but results of the same tournament don't seem to apply then.

I know you don't want to discuss against logic and fact, it's difficult to do.

 

[King Leaf]

This is my "opinion" and dont get upset ....

Everything is going to depend on how he does in camp. If he is overmatched against Nhl players, I do not see a benefit to keeping him with the leafs.

I think we need Mitch to tear the NHL up in about 3 years from now when we will be a strong playoff team. I dont see a need to rush him this season, we do not need him to make us a better team just yet. Like Dubas/Lou has said, they will not keep any rookie unless they are ready.

Again this me having a discussion about Mitch, I am not attacking him.

LOL don't worry man, I don't get upset about this kind of stuff. I guess we just disagree on what's best for his development. There was a poster on here who said he wasn't sure about the Marner pick because his girlfriend saw a Marner interview and thought he sounded 'dumb as a post'.

In any case, it's definitely possible that they might elect to send him back to junior, I just don't think that's what's best for him and I think they'll see that. We'll see I guess. I hope he's playing, I want to see him and Matthews together.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

I don't think Mitch payed as well, or as dominate as he could. However, it's a team sport, and a single tournament, and he still went over PPG. He played better than Strome, which you seem to like over Mitch, but results of the same tournament don't seem to apply then.

I know you don't want to discuss against logic and fact, it's difficult to do.

Ok, so you're opinion is Mitch didnt play as well, or as dominate as he could, this is my opinion also.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Lol 1.20 ppg and .80 goals per game is struggling...i hope he struggles like this the rest of his career

Babcocks Marner and myself think he Mitch didnt play as well, or as dominate as he could.

• 7gp 5g 12a 17 pts Jesse Puljujärvi
• 7gp 5g 9a 14 pts Sebastian Aho
• 7gp 7g 6a 13 pts Patrik Laine
• 7gp 7g 4a 11 pts Auston Matthews
• 7gp 4g 7a 11 pts Matthew Tkachuk
• -
• 5gp 4g 2a 6 pts Mitchell Marner