Value of: Mitch Marner Contract Mega-Thread Pt. 2

[Pelle31]

None.

Any competitive team won’t have the cap space, and any rebuilding team won’t give up four first round picks.

There isn’t a single chance it happens.

How about a team that's in middle of being a competitive team and a total rebuilding team like the Islanders for instance who if I'm Lou Lamoriello who love nothing more than to screw over the Leafs by signing Marner to an offer sheet. If Dubas doesn't sign Marner to an extension before July 1st then he asking for some team to give Marner an offer sheet if they're not going to pay Marner what he thinks he deserves. Marner is a young guy that a team who is just on the verge of being a contender would greatly help and that team's first round picks would be in the 20's of the first round for the next 4 years so it would be worth considering the kid that they would be drafting most likely won't be playing in the NHL for 2 or 3 years anyways.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

How about a team that's in middle of being a competitive team and a total rebuilding team like the Islanders for instance who if I'm Lou Lamoriello who love nothing more than to screw over the Leafs by signing Marner to an offer sheet. If Dubas doesn't sign Marner to an extension before July 1st then he asking for some team to give Marner an offer sheet if they're not going to pay Marner what he thinks he deserves. Marner is a young guy that a team who is just on the verge of being a contender would greatly help and that team's first round picks would be in the 20's of the first round for the next 4 years so it would be worth considering the kid that they would be drafting most likely won't be playing in the NHL for 2 or 3 years anyways.

Everything you just wrote applies equally to Point, Rantanen, and Aho.

Again, I’m not interested in paying Marner a flat out unprecedented $12 mil aav, and that’s with giving up nothing but cap space. Add in 4 first round picks? It becomes a joke. There is absolutely no way that happens. Imagine what that does to the islanders internal cap structure. Does Barzal (who's scored 85 points before) get 100 points with Marner in his wing? If so, wouldn’t he (as a center) demand far more than Marner when his contract is up after next season? Islanders would be in their own cap hell. And four years of no first rounders. Sounds like a flat out disaster.

 

[doorbag]

It’s hard to see him taking a discount when nobody else on his team did. I would be shocked if he signed for a penny less than Tavares.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The leafs are legit going to have 4 players making 40 M

This year was their best chance, and they completely blew it

 

[SCP Guy]

Needs to start with an 11 ..... Go Mitch Go

 

[Hunter368]

The leafs are legit going to have 4 players making 40 M

This year was their best chance, and they completely blew it

Not surprising, Marner is the one player I would want from the Leafs above all the rest.

 

[Hunter368]

It’s hard to see him taking a discount when nobody else on his team did. I would be shocked if he signed for a penny less than Tavares.

Discounts are largely a myth......no one takes one........at least not to any significant amount especially on their big money making contract.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The leafs are legit going to have 4 players making 40 M

This year was their best chance, and they completely blew it

I still think Dubas will use Kucherov's $9.5 million AAV as the benchmark. He signed that after having 100 points last season and this season Marner had 94 points.

Also please don't use the Florida state tax as to why it's not comparable. The only thing Dubas see's is the number Kucherov got and it was $9.5 million AAV contract.

 

[Trinity]

I still think Dubas will use Kucherov's $9.5 million AAV as the benchmark. He signed that after having 100 points last season and this season Marner had 94 points.

Also please don't use the Florida state tax as to why it's not comparable. The only thing Dubas see's is the number Kucherov got and it was $9.5 million AAV contract.

Dubas isn't negotiating with himself though.

 

[StreetHawk]

Discounts are largely a myth......no one takes one........at least not to any significant amount especially on their big money making contract.

Not when you’re in your rfa years. You don’t have the trade protection to ensure that you will remain there for the duration of the contract unlike a ufa like Tavares. After his weak effort on several plays I can envision Nylander getting traded despite Dubas saying not while he is the gm.

 

[Morbo]

This year was their best chance, and they completely blew it

You wish.

 

[FerrisRox]

Toronto's salary cap going forward is still better than Tampa Bay and Winnipeg. So can we please stop with this false narrative that the Leafs are in trouble with their salary cap already.

The issue for Toronto is how that salary cap money is spent. Beyond Morgan Rielly, no money is allotted to the teams biggest weakness, their defense and that is a serious problem.

 

[FerrisRox]

So how come someone like Jeff O'Neil had to say enough with the talk of Toronto's salary cap problems and brought up Tampa Bay and Winnipeg being in worse shape.

Why do *you* keep bringing up Winnipeg and Tampa Bay? Other teams having cap issues doesn't make the issue less of a problem for Toronto. I don't see why you think it's relevant. You want people to talk about other teams with cap problems? What will that do? It doesn't change the situation with the Maple Leafs. The reality of the numbers is the reality of the numbers and other teams having cap issues doesn't change that at all.

 

[WesMcCauley]

I still think Dubas will use Kucherov's $9.5 million AAV as the benchmark. He signed that after having 100 points last season and this season Marner had 94 points.

Also please don't use the Florida state tax as to why it's not comparable. The only thing Dubas see's is the number Kucherov got and it was $9.5 million AAV contract.

Kucherov is also better than Matthews... Matthews got 2m+ more and Leafs bought one UFA year or something. Kucherovs contract is 1 rfa year and 7 ufa years. Kucherov is also better than Tavares who makes 1,5m more than Kucherov.

Leafs cap structure is a mess even if you can argue their top players are worth their salaries...

 

[FerrisRox]

This year was their best chance, and they completely blew it

I don't think that's true. With the defense they had, they didn't have a legit change this season at all.

It seems to me they have been building toward a couple of years from now when hopefully the have improved their defense and players like Marner and Matthews have more experience under their belts.

Because of the Tavares signing - which I don't fully understand - Dubas has handcuffed himself into essentially requiring the improvement on D to come internally, so there are a lot of eggs in the basket of Sandin and Liljegren but if those guys emerge and can contribute (and improve the team's defense) on their entry level deals coupled with improved (not necessarily statistically) play from Matthews and Marner I think that is more likely to be when this group has their best chance.

 

[FerrisRox]

I still think Dubas will use Kucherov's $9.5 million AAV as the benchmark. He signed that after having 100 points last season and this season Marner had 94 points.

Also please don't use the Florida state tax as to why it's not comparable. The only thing Dubas see's is the number Kucherov got and it was $9.5 million AAV contract.

Should be pretty obvious that Marner's agent is going to use contracts that Dubas has signed as his comps, not a contract signed by a different GM in a different organization.

And while you can dismiss the Florida tax situation and say that only thing Dubas will see his the number, that certainly doesn't mean anything to Marner's agent. Dubas has shown with Nylander and Matthews that his strategy for negotiating a contract is to invite the agent into his office, light some candles, bend over his desk and put on a Barry White CD. The idea that now, suddenly, with the best of those three players he's going to play hardball is just silly.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Kucherov is also better than Matthews... Matthews got 2m+ more and Leafs bought one UFA year or something. Kucherovs contract is 1 rfa year and 7 ufa years. Kucherov is also better than Tavares who makes 1,5m more than Kucherov.

Leafs cap structure is a mess even if you can argue their top players are worth their salaries...

You can not compare Tavares contract to Kucherov's contract.

Tavares was a UFA, where as Kucherov could have re-signed for 1 more year and been a UFA after this season.

So after he had 128 points this season you don't think Kucherov could have signed for even more than Tavares did.

 

[Nervousbreakdown]

Kucherov is also better than Matthews... Matthews got 2m+ more and Leafs bought one UFA year or something. Kucherovs contract is 1 rfa year and 7 ufa years. Kucherov is also better than Tavares who makes 1,5m more than Kucherov.

Leafs cap structure is a mess even if you can argue their top players are worth their salaries...

Matthews scored 5 more goals than Kucherov in the playoffs this year, check mate Tampa Bay

 

[WesMcCauley]

You can not compare Tavares contract to Kucherov's contract.

Tavares was a UFA, where as Kucherov could have re-signed for 1 more year and been a UFA after this season.

So after he had 128 points this season you don't think Kucherov could have signed for even more than Tavares did.

Yes you can, specially when you bring Matthews´contract into the picture who only bought one UFA year. Or Nylander who only makes 2,5m less on a shorter deal with many RFA years.
Kucherovs 17/18 season was better than Tavares or Matthews have ever been.

Im not saying Leafs stars dont deserve their salaries or arent worth them from an individual perspective. But their cap structure is a mess because of it and it has created an environment where their contracts sets a new standard for players of their caliber.
Tavares did it, Nylander did it, Matthews did it and Marner will do it. One of Dubas' (or any GM's) most important jobs is to sign his players to contracts that are good for his franchise and he has failed at it....

Btw i like Dubas, he seems like a great guy who knows a lot and will have a great impact on hockey and the NHL but he has failed completely when it comes to signing his top stars...

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yes you can, specially when you bring Matthews´contract into the picture who only bought one UFA year. Or Nylander who only makes 2,5m less on a shorter deal with many RFA years.
Kucherovs 17/18 season was better than Tavares or Matthews have ever been.

Im not saying Leafs stars dont deserve their salaries or arent worth them from an individual perspective. But their cap structure is a mess because of it and it has created an environment where their contracts sets a new standard for players of their caliber.
Tavares did it, Nylander did it, Matthews did it and Marner will do it. One of Dubas' (or any GM's) most important jobs is to sign his players to contracts that are good for his franchise and he has failed at it....

Btw i like Dubas, he seems like a great guy who knows a lot and will have a great impact on hockey and the NHL but he has failed completely when it comes to signing his top stars...

Part of the problems for the Leafs salary cap for next year was caused by Lou Lamoriello when he signed Patrick Marleau for 3 years. You can complain about Dubas and his decisions, but he's not 100% responsible for their current salary cap structure.

 

[Legion34]

It happened, sadly.

Actually it didn’t. He clarified and said it was not a sign And trade. And that he is not in the business of trading young players.

He specifically said he did NOT promise that

 

[WesMcCauley]

Matthews scored 5 more goals than Kucherov in the playoffs this year, check mate Tampa Bay

Nice sample size. Kucherov has a 0.94 career ppg in the playoffs, Matthews has 0.75 career ppg in the playoffs.

Kucherov is 2nd in reg season scoring the last three seasons, only 9 points behind McDavid. 35 points over the 3rd guys who is Crosby with the same exact number of games played.
Matthews is 27th and has 0,97 ppg. Kucherov has 1,33 ppg in the same three seasons.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Part of the problems for the Leafs salary cap for next year was caused by Lou Lamoriello when he signed Patrick Marleau for 3 years. You can complain about Dubas and his decisions, but he's not 100% responsible for their current salary cap structure.

Im not saying he is? But he is responsible for the contracts of his superstars.

Im not saying any of this out of disrespect, i have nothing against the Leafs. But the reality is that the contracts Dubas has given out to his stars have set a new standard for players of their caliber and most people would agree thats not good enough from your GM.

 

[JT Kreider]

I still think Dubas will use Kucherov's $9.5 million AAV as the benchmark. He signed that after having 100 points last season and this season Marner had 94 points.

Also please don't use the Florida state tax as to why it's not comparable. The only thing Dubas see's is the number Kucherov got and it was $9.5 million AAV contract.

And then Marner's agent laughs in Dubas' face at that $9.5 million. But best believe no agent ever laughed in Steve Yzerman's face. That is why Tampa got those steals on Kuch/Stamkos/Hedman etc. Not the state tax.

 

[Menzinger]

The issue for Toronto is how that salary cap money is spent. Beyond Morgan Rielly, no money is allotted to the teams biggest weakness, their defense and that is a serious problem.

The teams top two prospects are a RHD and LHD.

You cant allocate capspace to an area of you've got nothing to spend it on. And buying an expensive ufa isn't the solution here