Miscellaneous NHL Talk XXI (NHL rule changes, post #36)

[RJ8812*]

Bob was handled poorly by this organization the moment he came across the pond

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

that bryz contract has to go down as the worst signing in Flyers history for length/$$$/ and results...

laffably bad that deal.

least its over n dealt with..

ps did Bryz find a team for this year ? i cant even remember were he ended up by the end of last season

He ended his year watching Patrick Kane celebrate an OT goal

And the Wild didn't bring him back as they have both Harding/Backstrom under contract and as of this point he has had no bidders

He actually played well for Wild so I am a bit surprised he didn't earn himself a contract somewhere as #2

 

[Garbage Goal]

Prior to Minnesotta he was with Edmonton as well on a contract signed during the season. Then the Oilers traded (I think?) Bryz to Minnesotta because the Oilers went from no goalies to having both Scrivens and Fasth. As the previous poster mentioned he actually didn't look bad in his time there overall. Looked okay in both Edmonton and Minnesotta at first then kind of fell off at the end of each stint.

If a team were desperate I'd think he get signed but the goalie market is too full as is. Especially for starting jobs. I'm more surprised how quickly Bryz fell off the map after leaving Phoenix.

 

[Random Forest]

Full transcript of Snider's words today:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/275015191.html

My favorites:

You said you were more patient than you used to be. . ?.

“No, I’m not more patient than I used to be. Hextall is.’’

Does he have to talk to you about being more patient?

“Look, I don’t make deals. I don’t pick players. I just support the GMs. Let them do their jobs and he’s the guy in charge. I really admire what he’s doing and what he’s meant to the organization.’’

Yes, some of this is probably telling it like we want to hear, but I truly don't believe Snider is as involved as people make it seem. The dude will support whatever decision his GM tells him is best. The most explicit mandate he's ever given is "Get me a goalie", and the events that transpired weren't exactly his fault. More on whose fault it was a couple below...

Are the so-called experts short-changing the Flyers?

“No, I don’t think so. They’re looking at it objectively. We’ve got to prove ourselves and we were on the (playoff) bubble last year. There’s no reason for them to believe that without making big changes we won’t be on the bubble or even miss the playoffs this year. The so-called experts don’t know more than any of us know. You guys are the so-called experts and what the bleep do you know?”

I appreciate how reasonable this answer is, for some reason.

In hindsight, do you wish the team was more patient with Sergei Bobrovsky, or are you happy with the way things turned out with Mason here?

“Well, obviously, you don’t like to let a kid like that go. I was responsible _ not for picking anybody (Bryzgalov). I was responsible for saying we can’t have this goalie situation like we had. So the organization met. All the hockey guys met and they graded all the different people that might be available, and Bryzgalov was at the top. Now that may be an indictment on our scouting or whatever you want to call it, but we went out to get the guy. Then, the problem is, not only did we make a mistake on the long-term contract, but Bobrovksy’s a young guy and he told Paul, ‘As soon as my contract’s out, I’m out of here.’ He wasn’t going to re-sign with us. He was going to go back to Russia (or) he was going to go with another team, but he wasn’t going to be a second-string goalie for the rest of his life. So that was also a problem, and Paul made the best of the situation. It’s not that we did not like Bobrovsky. The whole thing was a fiasco. We can’t look back. What happened, happened, and here we are. But then Paul made what I think was a great move in picking up Mason, who’s not chopped liver.”

I know everyone likes saying "Snider was too involved with Bryz!" or "Man, Holmgren really ****ed that one up" (he did), but very little goes to the hockey ops guys that actually thought Bryzgalov was worth a nine year investment. It's not like Holmgren got to watch Bryzgalov night in and night out in Phoenix. Whoever provided the intel on Bryzgalov shares a load of responsibility, too.


I don't think I can ask any more of Snider. He's closer to the perfect owner than he is to even an average one, imo. He wants to win badly, will defer to his GM/scouts' judgments, acknowledges that he's not an expert around the league, and has loads of cash that he has no problems spending. He loves the team and desperately wants another Cup. People give the man such a hard time, but since I've been a Flyers fan, I don't know how much I can honestly complain about. It's going to be a damn shame when his time comes, and he most certainly deserves another Cup before then. Flyers fans definitely take him for granted. I'm pretty concerned about who his replacement will be.

 

[The Rage Kage]

Can't disagree with any of that

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

I agree. Snider gets WAY WAY WAY too much **** from fans and the media. Of course if you defend him you're labeled a kool aid drinker, stepford fan, blah, blah, ****ing blah. People who claims he meddles like Jerry Jones never even have any proof of it. It's all speculation. Quite frankly, none of us are behind the doors of management. What the hell do we really know what goes on?

 

[Curufinwe]

People who claimed Snider hand picked Bryz were always nuts.

 

[Danko]

So Bob told Holmgren that he wanted to get out? Is that the first thats come out?

 

[Curufinwe]

Maybe, but it was obvious. Bryz had a 9 year deal to be the starter here.

 

[Embiid]

Full transcript of Snider's words today:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/275015191.html

My favorites:



Yes, some of this is probably telling it like we want to hear, but I truly don't believe Snider is as involved as people make it seem. The dude will support whatever decision his GM tells him is best. The most explicit mandate he's ever given is "Get me a goalie", and the events that transpired weren't exactly his fault. More on whose fault it was a couple below...



I appreciate how reasonable this answer is, for some reason.



I know everyone likes saying "Snider was too involved with Bryz!" or "Man, Holmgren really ****ed that one up" (he did), but very little goes to the hockey ops guys that actually thought Bryzgalov was worth a nine year investment. It's not like Holmgren got to watch Bryzgalov night in and night out in Phoenix. Whoever provided the intel on Bryzgalov shares a load of responsibility, too.


I don't think I can ask any more of Snider. He's closer to the perfect owner than he is to even an average one, imo. He wants to win badly, will defer to his GM/scouts' judgments, acknowledges that he's not an expert around the league, and has loads of cash that he has no problems spending. He loves the team and desperately wants another Cup. People give the man such a hard time, but since I've been a Flyers fan, I don't know how much I can honestly complain about. It's going to be a damn shame when his time comes, and he most certainly deserves another Cup before then. Flyers fans definitely take him for granted. I'm pretty concerned about who his replacement will be.

Meh...he meddled and wasn't patient..hence the reactionary moves by his GM which he admitted turned into a fiasco and was a mistake. He bears responsibility regardless of the apologetic explanations. Him now having to learn to be more patient and empowering his new GM is what ultimately matters going forward. Damage was done and some of it still may need to play out. I'm glad he has learned his lesson thus far and is now backing off......

 

[Random Forest]

Meh...he meddled and wasn't patient..hence the reactionary moves by his GM which he admitted turned into a fiasco and was a mistake. He bears responsibility regardless of the apologetic explanations. Him now having to learn to be more patient and empowering his new GM is what ultimately matters going forward. Damage was done and some of it still may need to play out. I'm glad he has learned his lesson thus far and is now backing off......

What do you mean "hence the reactionary moves by his GM"? Are you implying Holmgren was backed into a corner and had to give Bryz that contract? Honestly, that's just confirmation bias stuff. Your conclusion is that Snider is too involved, so you're going to pick the narrative that confirms your conclusion.

Snider said, "Get me a goalie". Holmgren and the pro scouts landed on Bryzgalov and Holmgren decided on that fat contract. All Snider did was put his stamp on the deal. I don't think saying, "Get me a goalie" is being too involved.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/17/flyers-owner-snider-i-didnt-pick-bryz/

 

[Random Forest]

Terrific article about Alex Burmistrov using some fascinating stats. Wish we had something like this. Couturier would make a great subject for this analysis. I miss Tulsky on BSH...

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014...ization-an-introduction-to-a-new-use-in-corsi

 

[Beef Invictus]

So Bob told Holmgren that he wanted to get out? Is that the first thats come out?

I mean, it was assumed pretty early on that he wouldn't have any interest sticking around behind Bryz. I didn't think that was as much a revelation as it was a confirmation of common speculation.

 

[Embiid]

What do you mean "hence the reactionary moves by his GM"? Are you implying Holmgren was backed into a corner and had to give Bryz that contract? Honestly, that's just confirmation bias stuff. Your conclusion is that Snider is too involved, so you're going to pick the narrative that confirms your conclusion.

Snider said, "Get me a goalie". Holmgren and the pro scouts landed on Bryzgalov and Holmgren decided on that fat contract. All Snider did was put his stamp on the deal. I don't think saying, "Get me a goalie" is being too involved.

Snider admits he was too anxious implying he was too involved...

Holmgren is ultimately responsible but he obviously felt pressured by Snider's anxiety...

This is common sense. Snider now realizes the error in his ways and it took Hextall ..not Holmgren to show him religion apparently.

“I think Ron has established a philosophy that is probably long overdue," Snider said. "I probably have been a little too anxious to win a Cup.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

wasn't that long ago the Holmgren supporters insisted he wasn't being impatient with any of his moves he made. trading picks ect ect.

yeah, about that.

 

[Random Forest]

Snider admits he was too anxious implying he was too involved...

How do you make that mental leap here?

You're jumping through hoops to confirm the preconception you started with.

wasn't that long ago the Holmgren supporters insisted he wasn't being impatient with any of his moves he made. trading picks ect ect.

yeah, about that.

I still maintain that Holmgren was a net positive. Unfortunately, fairly or unfairly, his legacy will always be tarnished by the Bryzgalov debacle.

But I don't want to reopen that can of worms, so I won't say more about my thoughts on Holmgren.

 

[Embiid]

How do you make that mental leap here?

You're jumping through hoops to confirm the preconception you started with.



I still maintain that Holmgren was a net positive. Unfortunately, fairly or unfairly, his legacy will always be tarnished by the Bryzgalov debacle.

But I don't want to reopen that can of worms, so I won't say more about my thoughts on Holmgren.

If anything is a leap it is considering Holmgren a net positive when everything Hextall has done is to try and fix all of Holmgren's and the owner's lousy mistakes like the farm system and player development. Seriously, you are defending the indefensible especially when the owner himself admits the philosophy of patience is long overdue which is a crock anyway since when Holmgren became GM him and Snider preached the exact philosophy that now Hextall is implementing...patience. Unfortunately, Snider's impatience set in and the fiascos followed....

 

[Striiker]

 

[Tripod]

If anything is a leap it is considering Holmgren a net positive when everything Hextall has done is to try and fix all of Holmgren's and the owner's lousy mistakes like the farm system and player development. Seriously, you are defending the indefensible especially when the owner himself admits the philosophy of patience is long overdue which is a crock anyway since when Holmgren became GM him and Snider preached the exact philosophy that now Hextall is implementing...patience. Unfortunately, Snider's impatience set in and the fiascos followed....

The one flaw in what you say is that Morin, Ghost, Laughton, Leier, Stolarz, Alt, Hagg...are all from Holmgren. Just saying.

 

[Embiid]

The one flaw in what you say is that Morin, Ghost, Laughton, Leier, Stolarz, Alt, Hagg...are all from Holmgren. Just saying.

I'm well aware of this fact and I've been on record saying in the past that in the last two years they went back to at least focusing on the draft ..particularly with respect to getting D men versus the big free agent. They should have stayed the course when Holmgren was first hired and they said they weren't going to trade their young players etc. Unfortunately, we saw how that went and now Hextall and the Flyers are having to play catch up. Unfortunate but I'm glad that Snider is finally seeing the light and he got Hextall in there and is letting him do his thing which was long overdue as he admitted.

Holmgren gave himself an Incomplete when he stepped "up." Overall, his tenure was very inconsistent. The team reflected that. Continuity was always a challenge with the rosters and the Pronger misfortune certainly didn't help so that has to be acknowledged.

 

[Curufinwe]

Minnesota are being ridiculously hardline about Kuemper's new contract.

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie · 42m
No thaw yet in standoff between MIN and G Darcy Kuemper. MIN wants him on 2-way contract; Kuemper seeking a one-year, one-way deal at $850K.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Jesus, Minn is being dicks about it. Kuemper is better than Backstrom right now and Harding may have issues playing for the rest of his life (or moving for that matter).

 

[flyershockey]

They already have two goalies on one-way deals. They obviously want Kuemper in the AHL for if/when Josh Harding's health issues start to become a concern.

 

[Curufinwe]

He can start the season in the AHL on a one-way deal, he just gets paid more. There's no cap issue for the Wild because he would make less than $925K.

Man I wish we could get him here to battle Emery for the backup spot.