Miscellaneous NHL Talk, Summer of 2018 version

[Ghosts Beer]

I'd wager they'd look far better than Hagg's.

They probably would (as I said I like Sanheim more) but to ignore that the two were deployed in extremely different manners is egregious, IMO.

 

[mja]

They probably would (as I said I like Sanheim more) but to ignore that the two were deployed in extremely different manners is egregious, IMO.

It's almost like there was some questionable coaching involved in that then, right?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's almost like there was some questionable coaching involved in that then, right?

Perhaps not as much as you’re trying to make it seem by ignoring all context.

There couldn’t have been many defensemen who played easier minutes than Sanheim. That’s going to inflate those fancy stats. Hagg, on the other hand, had it rough. They are dissimilar players, & I don’t think Hakstol is a moron for preferring Hagg on defensive zone starts. Sanheim was no defensive stalwart.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Perhaps not as much as you’re trying to make it seem by ignoring all context.

There couldn’t have been many defensemen who played easier minutes than Sanheim. That’s going to inflate those fancy stats. Hagg, on the other hand, had it rough. They are dissimilar players, & I don’t think Hakstol is a moron for preferring Hagg on defensive zone starts. Sanheim was no defensive stalwart.

Neither was Hagg

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Neither was Hagg

Never said he was. A point that seems commonly misconstrued by having a middle ground on Hagg vs sheer hatred.

 

[Magua]

I already know how this goes conversation goes because it's been had countless times before, but there is no usage gap that can make up the difference between Sanheim and Hagg. Quality of competition or a couple more zone starts each way (Hagg averaged about <2 more d-zone draws/game 5v5) doesn't make up for a 7% gap in xGF% or the canyon-sized gap between ~top 10 relxGF% among defenseman league-wide and ~bottom 10.

And Hagg's increased quality of competition, which wasn't as much as you think, came with an even more sizable difference in quality of teammate, which statistics show is even more important (and just common sense: good players playing with other good players against good players is preferable to good players playing with bad players). And what a difference there was playing with this team's top 6 versus bottom 6. The difference in xGF% QoC between Sanheim and Hagg was 0.36%. The difference in xGF% QoT was 2.2%. That's vast.

Compare each defenseman's CF% playing with each center on the team, in varied usage, and it isn't close:

	Sanheim	Hagg
Couturier	59.3%	47.6%
Patrick	49.0%	44.1%
Filppula	51.6%	40.7%
Laughton	58.2%	50.4%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I agree Sanheim is better & that Hagg was overused.

But there couldn’t have been many defensemen in the league who got easier minutes than Sanheim. I sometimes feel that aspect gets glossed over.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Hak is such an emgimna that hagg can have shitty plus minus to start the year and won't ever climb out of the doghouse. Hakstol is one weird ass mofo.

 

[mja]

Perhaps not as much as you’re trying to make it seem by ignoring all context.

There couldn’t have been many defensemen who played easier minutes than Sanheim. That’s going to inflate those fancy stats. Hagg, on the other hand, had it rough. They are dissimilar players, & I don’t think Hakstol is a moron for preferring Hagg on defensive zone starts. Sanheim was no defensive stalwart.

It's utterly amazing the lengths you'll go to to avoid criticizing Hakstol's coaching.

Playing Hagg over Sanheim is bad coaching. Period. Full stop. There's no rationalizing it. It's just bad coaching.

 

[hatcher]

Hak is a good coach who cant trust most of the good players when it counts. Hagg is getting his deal soon.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I actually have gone the entire summer so far not thinking about Hak and his moronic decisions.

Well that run ended today and now i'm triggered.

 

[hatcher]

I actually have gone the entire summer so far not thinking about Hak and his moronic decisions.

Well that run ended today and now i'm triggered.

He coaches a 1-2-2 without the puck and a low to high offence just like the jack adams trophy winner. You like gallant don't you? I sure do but they got way better players that's all and can play the system hard.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

He coaches a 1-2-2 without the puck and a low to high offence just like the jack adams trophy winner. You like gallant don't you? I sure do but they got way better players that's all and can play the system hard.

Not a matter of system, as has been explained to you and others countless times.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Hak is a good coach who cant trust most of the good players when it counts. Hagg is getting his deal soon.

 

[hatcher]

Not a matter of system, as has been explained to you and others countless times.

I know its all of our players cant get it done and are boring and flat. I know every system in the sport. I have played most of them.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I know its all of our players cant get it done and are boring and flat. I know every system in the sport. I have played most of them.

*DonaldTrumpWrong.gif*

And during your playing days, would your team perform better or worse when the bad players got more playing time then required?

 

[hatcher]

*DonaldTrumpWrong.gif*

And during your playing days, would your team perform better or worse when the bad players got more playing time then required?

Our best were the best and the bottom players played good. In the playoffs g,v,ghost were f***in terrible and the bottom players out played them which is a bad sign. Lethera had a good series wether you like him or not. Weise finally brought a forecheck and even Read played alright and could have scored in every game twice. I don't like the bottom players but when your best stink when it matters its bad.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hagg vs Sanheim.

Cliff Notes version... Sanheim is already very good. Hagg is not.



Hakstol thought the one on the left was better. He is paid 5(?) million dollars a year to coach the team.

It's true that Sanheim was better, but it's also true that there will be other teams in the league who would overvalue a guy like Hagg. I don't think Hagg + 1st necessarily gets the Flyers Trouba, but it might not be that far off.

However, the upcoming ED really kills my interest in acquiring another dman who would need to be protected.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Mango is as out of touch with NHL as Hakstok is.

 

[wasup]

He coaches a 1-2-2 without the puck and a low to high offence just like the jack adams trophy winner. You like gallant don't you? I sure do but they got way better players that's all and can play the system hard.

The NHL is moving away from the defensive trap crap it is boring and hard to watch , Watch Boston Toronto Winnipeg Nashville and some of the other top teams they play a pressure attack system and it is highly entertaining . This being said you cannot have players who cannot skate if you play like this but the league is moving towards more speed , skill and some less size that can't keep up . Size that can keep up is quite valuable and allows you to insert a few waterbugs but you have to be able to skate . Oh did i mention you have to be able to skate and i don't mean just north south , east west as well .

 

[hatcher]

The NHL is moving away from the defensive trap crap it is boring and hard to watch , Watch Boston Toronto Winnipeg Nashville and some of the other top teams they play a pressure attack system and it is highly entertaining . This being said you cannot have players who cannot skate if you play like this but the league is moving towards more speed , skill and some less size that can't keep up . Size that can keep up is quite valuable and allows you to insert a few waterbugs but you have to be able to skate . Oh did i mention you have to be able to skate and i don't mean just north south , east west as well .

And clog the neutral zone without. Nashville has a 1-4 going without the puck.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The Flyers played a more aggressive 1-1-3 for the majority of time under Hakstol, but switched to the more passive 1-2-2 after struggling early last season and it helped.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

We didn’t have the horses to run a system like Edmonton, Winnipeg, Vegas ect had last year.
Not defending Hakstol, we just didn’t have the depth up front especially to play that way.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I already know how this goes conversation goes because it's been had countless times before, but there is no usage gap that can make up the difference between Sanheim and Hagg. Quality of competition or a couple more zone starts each way (Hagg averaged about <2 more d-zone draws/game 5v5) doesn't make up for a 7% gap in xGF% or the canyon-sized gap between ~top 10 relxGF% among defenseman league-wide and ~bottom 10.

And Hagg's increased quality of competition, which wasn't as much as you think, came with an even more sizable difference in quality of teammate, which statistics show is even more important (and just common sense: good players playing with other good players against good players is preferable to good players playing with bad players). And what a difference there was playing with this team's top 6 versus bottom 6. The difference in xGF% QoC between Sanheim and Hagg was 0.36%. The difference in xGF% QoT was 2.2%. That's vast.

Compare each defenseman's CF% playing with each center on the team, in varied usage, and it isn't close:

	Sanheim	Hagg
Couturier	59.3%	47.6%
Patrick	49.0%	44.1%
Filppula	51.6%	40.7%
Laughton	58.2%	50.4%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Appreciate the effort even though it will go in one ear and out the other.

Should be noted Hagg got 51% OZ starts with Ghost and still got his doors blown off. So you can't blame teammates. You can't blame zone starts. You have to use hits, +/-, and shots on goal to justify the coach and the player.

 

[Flyers Faithful]

I feel like Trouba would be the perfect fit for this team.