Miscellaneous NHL Talk, Summer of 2018 version

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Garbage Goal

Registered User
Apr 1, 2009
22,699
4,591
I agree Sanheim is better & that Hagg was overused.

But there couldn’t have been many defensemen in the league who got easier minutes than Sanheim. I sometimes feel that aspect gets glossed over.

There's a post literally directly above yours, from one of the best posters on the board, explaining that there is no context in which Hagg is better than Sanheim or that there is any legitimate defense for Hakstol's coaching when it came to the two of them. A post going into great detail and offering research that I would never care enough to offer that explains what the vast majority of this board sees and knows.

I know its all of our players cant get it done and are boring and flat. I know every system in the sport. I have played most of them.

With that kind of talk you could run for president of the United States soon.
 

hatcher

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
12,377
4,085
Kelowna BC
There's a post literally directly above yours, from one of the best posters on the board, explaining that there is no context in which Hagg is better than Sanheim or that there is any legitimate defense for Hakstol's coaching when it came to the two of them. A post going into great detail and offering research that I would never care enough to offer that explains what the vast majority of this board sees and knows.



With that kind of talk you could run for president of the United States soon.
wouldn't want it.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,502
42,241
Provorov-Ghost
Sanheim-Gudas
MacDonald-Schmaltz/Folin

Myers as the first callup.

The Blues are low on cap space, so we'd have to get creative. Maybe MacDonald at 50% + Hagg for Bouwmeester + Schmaltz.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
There's a post literally directly above yours, from one of the best posters on the board, explaining that there is no context in which Hagg is better than Sanheim or that there is any legitimate defense for Hakstol's coaching when it came to the two of them. A post going into great detail and offering research that I would never care enough to offer that explains what the vast majority of this board sees and knows.

Actually there is a very simple defense, Hagg was not Sanheim's competition, Manning was. Different roles.
Manning 0.98 pp/60, Corsi 50.49, CorsiRel +1.14, xGF 48.89, xGFrel -2.22,
Sanheim 0.76 pp/60, Corsi 53.69, CorsiRel +5.65, xGF 54.52, xGFrel +5.09
Manning played better the first half, Sanheim played much worse. Sanheim had about the same ES time the second half.

Manning: [1:24 PK]
Jan 16:29
Feb 16:48
Mar 18:35
PO: 17:38 [2:14 PK]
Sanheim [0:24 PK]
Mar 16:47
PO: 15:30
Hagg [1:36 PK]
Jan 18:08
Feb 17:07
Mar 15:59 (7 games)
PO: 11:50 (2 games)

Pre/post allstar break usage - ST time

Provorov 24:32/23:35 - 4:20
Ghost 20:57/22:09 - 3:40
MacDonald 20:19/19:21 - 1:55

Manning 18:15/17:38 - 1:31
Gudas 16:29/17:47 - 1:55
Hagg 18:45/16:44 - 1:40
Sanheim 15:14/16:27 - 0:41
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
52,627
85,325
I'd do it but we don't have room for another RD as well, unless he replaces Gudas.
Gudas and Folin are the only two natural RHD and Folin is most likely the extra. They could fit him if they wanted, but I'm sure the Flyers feel like they lose that deal (even if Schmaltz is from UND).
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,750
86,030
Nova Scotia
Actually there is a very simple defense, Hagg was not Sanheim's competition, Manning was. Different roles.
So who was Sanheim's competition?

Provy and Ghost? Nope....they were staples
AMac? Nope...he was always going to play
Gudas? Nope...only RHD in lineup

So who exactly was Sanheim in completion with if not our 2 worst Dmen?
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Hagg and MacDonald both played RHD at times, while Sanheim was strictly and Manning was primarily a LHD.
So Manning was Sanheim's primary competition, but all four seem to have rotated in the bottom three.
Manning outscored Sanheim, especially in the first half, Sanheim picked it up when he returned from the AHL.

I think there was a deliberate decision by Hakstol and Hextall to shelter Sanheim and limit his minutes, Sanheim wasn't Ghost, so good you had to force feed him.
Sanheim averaged 16:39 at home and 14:28 on the road, that certainly looks like they were trying to protect him.
Ghost as a rookie (with the same coach) played equal minutes at home and on the road.
Gudas played a minute more a night at home (probably b/c he was paired with Sanheim)
Hagg, Provorov and Ghost played a minute more a night on the road.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,750
86,030
Nova Scotia
Actually there is a very simple defense, Hagg was not Sanheim's competition, Manning was. Different roles.
Manning 0.98 pp/60, Corsi 50.49, CorsiRel +1.14, xGF 48.89, xGFrel -2.22,
Sanheim 0.76 pp/60, Corsi 53.69, CorsiRel +5.65, xGF 54.52, xGFrel +5.09
Manning played better the first half, Sanheim played much worse. Sanheim had about the same ES time the second half.

Manning: [1:24 PK]
Jan 16:29
Feb 16:48
Mar 18:35
PO: 17:38 [2:14 PK]
Sanheim [0:24 PK]
Mar 16:47
PO: 15:30
Hagg [1:36 PK]
Jan 18:08
Feb 17:07
Mar 15:59 (7 games)
PO: 11:50 (2 games)

Pre/post allstar break usage - ST time

Provorov 24:32/23:35 - 4:20
Ghost 20:57/22:09 - 3:40
MacDonald 20:19/19:21 - 1:55

Manning 18:15/17:38 - 1:31
Gudas 16:29/17:47 - 1:55
Hagg 18:45/16:44 - 1:40
Sanheim 15:14/16:27 - 0:41
So we have a coach who played 2 guys in our top 4 that our GM has waived, and chose not to re-sign.

Yet we don't have a coaching issue...
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
There's a post literally directly above yours, from one of the best posters on the board, explaining that there is no context in which Hagg is better than Sanheim or that there is any legitimate defense for Hakstol's coaching when it came to the two of them. A post going into great detail and offering research that I would never care enough to offer that explains what the vast majority of this board sees and knows.
I never said I think Hagg is better than Sanheim. On the contrary, I’ve said plenty of times I think Sanheim is better. That doesn’t mean Sanheim’s fancy stats weren’t inflated by extremely sheltered usage. And I also think these advanced stats are way more flawed than the reverence they receive. Sue me. 6 of the top 8 teams in Corsi missed the playoffs. For how hallowed these possession stats are treated, one wouldn’t think that is possible. I say I think the fancy stats get overrated, & the replies are usually a bunch of fancy stats “proving” I’m wrong. It’s circular. And it’s not that I think they have no value. I just tend toward gray areas & middle grounds the older I get, whereas a lot of fans gravitate toward extremes. It’s the same thing with my opinion toward Hakstol. I don’t love him, don’t hate him, but for those who despise him, it’s not an option to have a middle ground.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
So we have a coach who played 2 guys in our top 4 that our GM has waived, and chose not to re-sign.

Yet we don't have a coaching issue...
Why did the GM have them to begin with?
Hextall extended Manning. Hextall extended Schultz. Hextall extended PEB & VV. Hextall signed Weise for 4 years.
Hextall is in charge of who plays for the Flyers, & who plays for the Phantoms, so it was his decision to have Hagg on the Flyers & Morin on the Phantoms. And I like Hextall.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,750
86,030
Nova Scotia
Why did the GM have them to begin with?
Hextall extended Manning. Hextall extended Schultz. Hextall extended PEB & VV. Hextall signed Weise for 4 years.
Hextall is in charge of who plays for the Flyers, & who plays for the Phantoms, so it was his decision to have Hagg on the Flyers & Morin on the Phantoms. And I like Hextall.
Sure...if you want to ignore that Hextall left Sanheim on the roster wanting him to play yet Hakstol didn't DESPITE INFO SHOWING HE WAS PLAYING WELL AT THAT TIME. Then Hextall finally relented and demoted Sanheim.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Sanheim wasn't playing well at the time, I watched ALL the games.
He looked great in the neutral zone, lost in the D-zone, and couldn't finish to save his life in the O-zone.
The difference between Sanheim and Lindblom was both struggled to finish, both put up fancy stats (Lindblom even better numbers) but Lindblom was fundamentally sound and did the dirty work.

When Sanheim came back from the AHL he was playing better but was still soft. Then he went down to the AHL playoffs and played like it was an insult instead of an opportunity to work on his game - meanwhile Lindblom was sent down and was one of the best players on the Phantoms.

Both are 21, but one is a professional, one is a kid who's been getting by on talent and has to take the next step up.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
this can NOT be stated enuf times...

Haks idea of a quality NHL player is totaly not in line with Hexys views

We have no clue if that is true.
Hextall is the one who signed/traded for all the guys you hate and put them on the roster.
Hextall is the one who preaches a conservative approach to prospect development.
Hextall is the one who preaches the importance of work ethic, high motor, high IQ and playing a 200 foot game.

So who exactly does Hakstol treat differently than Hextall would?
 
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Deadpool8812

Registered User
Feb 10, 2018
12,677
16,096
Orpik was a rock for them during the playoffs. Yeah, I know it's a small sample, but as long as he's used properly, it's a fine deal
 
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