Miscellaneous NHL Talk, Summer of 2018 version

[Tripod]

Sanheim wasn't playing well at the time, I watched ALL the games.
He looked great in the neutral zone, lost in the D-zone, and couldn't finish to save his life in the O-zone.

Or really?

No, he was playing fine and really gaining confidence. Then sabotaged by Hak once Manning came back from injury. The only thing that changed after his recall was PDO.

I have posted these stats before...

Here is Sanheim's 5v5 Expected Goals For % in his final games before being sent down.

1/22: Sent to AHL
*Scratched 4 games*
1/13: 13% (6 mins TOI)
*Scratched 5 games*
12/28: 54%
12/23: 62%
12/22: 73% (team best)
12/20: 73%
12/18: 67% (team best)
12/16: 60%

 

[tictactoe]

what is the issue? Are you saying that Orpik did not look good on PK for Wash? If not.. STFU.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Orpik was awesome on PK in playoffs. For 1M a year... good deal.

Orpik was I think 6th in the entire NHL in SH TOI/g, won a Cup this season, is a pain in the ass to play against, & they’re only paying him a million. He knocked Couturier out of round 1 two seasons ago, which was huge. There’s more to the game than 5 on 5 possession metrics. And you’re going to need some cheap depth guys who can serve in non 5 on 5 roles.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

How much better does a player have to be on the PK to make up for being a tire fire at ES and therefore worth a roster spot? PK Minutes are tougher and worth more per second without giving up a Goal, but in a high usage year, Orpik spent 3:07 on the PK and 16:14 at ES per game.

I'll hang up and wait for the clichés.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Hockey culture is insane and the NHL is run by dinasours.

How much better does a player have to be on the PK to make up for being a tire fire at ES and therefore worth a roster spot? PK Minutes are tougher and worth more per second without giving up a Goal, but in a high usage year, Orpik spent 3:07 on the PK and 16:14 at ES per game.

I'll hang up and wait for the clichés.

Hi Jojo, longtime listener, first-time caller. Stanley Cup winner, yada yada yada, tough minutes, yada yada yada, oh ****, what is that giant flaming rock heading for us? **** my life, that's a meteor! We're done for!

 

[FLYguy3911]

He only had a GF% of 40 last year and hasn't scored a regular season goal in 30 months. What's the big deal guys?

 

[pit]

Hi Jojo, longtime listener, first-time caller. Stanley Cup winner, yada yada yada, tough minutes, yada yada yada, oh ****, what is that giant flaming rock heading for us? **** my life, that's a meteor! We're done for!

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He only had a GF% of 40 last year and hasn't scored a regular season goal in 30 months. What's the big deal guys?

He brings the hard hat to work every day.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Sure...if you want to ignore that Hextall left Sanheim on the roster wanting him to play yet Hakstol didn't DESPITE INFO SHOWING HE WAS PLAYING WELL AT THAT TIME. Then Hextall finally relented and demoted Sanheim.

Am I wrong, or did Hextall not extend Manning & keep Hagg on the NHL roster? Would’ve been easy to jettison both if he truly wanted. He’s in charge of the roster.
And, no, I don’t agree that Sanheim was playing well before being sent down. He was getting incredibly sheltered minutes. He had flashes of good & bad. He really struggled at many times. I don’t believe the “information” you are citing is anywhere near as flawless as it seems you think. (Still like him better than Hagg, for everyone rifling at their keyboards. Just think he was soft & not as good as many seem to think. Could be wrong.)

 

[Oskar Man]

Hagg and MacDonald both played RHD at times, while Sanheim was strictly and Manning was primarily a LHD.
So Manning was Sanheim's primary competition, but all four seem to have rotated in the bottom three.
Manning outscored Sanheim, especially in the first half, Sanheim picked it up when he returned from the AHL.

I think there was a deliberate decision by Hakstol and Hextall to shelter Sanheim and limit his minutes, Sanheim wasn't Ghost, so good you had to force feed him.
Sanheim averaged 16:39 at home and 14:28 on the road, that certainly looks like they were trying to protect him.
Ghost as a rookie (with the same coach) played equal minutes at home and on the road.
Gudas played a minute more a night at home (probably b/c he was paired with Sanheim)
Hagg, Provorov and Ghost played a minute more a night on the road.

Using Ghost's rookie year as a benchmark for Sanheim's is disingenuous. They had slop on D that year and were struggling to score. Ghosts leash had a ton of slack.

 

[Garbage Goal]

I never said I think Hagg is better than Sanheim. On the contrary, I’ve said plenty of times I think Sanheim is better. That doesn’t mean Sanheim’s fancy stats weren’t inflated by extremely sheltered usage. And I also think these advanced stats are way more flawed than the reverence they receive. Sue me. 6 of the top 8 teams in Corsi missed the playoffs. For how hallowed these possession stats are treated, one wouldn’t think that is possible. I say I think the fancy stats get overrated, & the replies are usually a bunch of fancy stats “proving” I’m wrong. It’s circular. And it’s not that I think they have no value. I just tend toward gray areas & middle grounds the older I get, whereas a lot of fans gravitate toward extremes. It’s the same thing with my opinion toward Hakstol. I don’t love him, don’t hate him, but for those who despise him, it’s not an option to have a middle ground.

Not going to look over Magua's post again, but I don't even recall him posting anything about Corsi. Corsi is known to be a basic possession metric that is pretty shallow and useless insofar as predicting the quality of players and teams without context. It's a really shallow, basic stat and there are a lot of better stats out there. Furthermore, stats in general, including advanced stats, are supposed to be used in combination with each other. Not in a vacuum to reinforce someone's own bias because, in isolation, they lose context and thus value. Pretty much anyone with even basic advanced stats knowledge knows these things so the fact that you used it as your example and proof that advanced stats are flawed shows either you're being purposefully disingenuous to further your own perspective or you genuinely don't know enough about "fancy stats".

I find it interesting that your minority opinion is, in your mind, the balanced middle-ground and it is everyone else who are extremists and incapable of having a balanced perspective. Is it not more likely that you just have a minority opinion? Further to that point, I also find it interesting that you conveniently disregard any and all advance stats that prove you wrong or otherwise go against your position because you see advanced stats as flawed and overrated. Yet, the opposite perspective is generally the eye-test and most of the people on here, that you are arguing with, know that Hakstol is a bad coach, that Sanheim generally improved the team when he was on the ice, and that Hagg was overused based off their own eye tests. So you just disregard opinions from both ends of the spectrum I guess?

There's being balanced and open then there's being a contrarian. It's really obvious when someone is being the latter. On the subject of Hakstol, I don't see why there's a need for balance and being open when we have multiple years of sample size on which to base our opinions on him and his flaws have been pointed out and proven on here ad nauseum. Don't know why some people can't just be bad at their jobs.