Minnesota Wild General Discussion XV

[Victorious Secret]

Nether Hartman(RFA)Belpedio(UFA), or Menell(RFA ) are signed for next year.

They can still be taken. Vegas took 2 or 3 UFAs that were not signed by there team, at the time. Taken without being compensated to, as well.

 

[BagHead]

4/4 - Expose Parise, Foligno, Rask, Hartman, Sturm, Soucy, Mennell, Belpedio and Talbot.

Have fun?

That would be ideal, but it requires Parise to waive his NMC, and I'm not the type to bank on maybes.

 

[nickschultzfan]

That would be ideal, but it requires Parise to waive his NMC, and I'm not the type to bank on maybes.

There is a difference between a plan and a contingency plan.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Dumba would be traded if the alternative was being exposed.

Why?

 

[thestonedkoala]

Nether Hartman(RFA)Belpedio(UFA), or Menell(RFA ) are signed for next year.

Belpedio probably not, but Menell and Hartman would be under team control.

 

[Spurgeon]

BG just needs to tell Parise that the only way he’s staying in Minnesota is if he waives his NMC. If Parise doesn’t want to oblige, buy him out. Protecting Parise shouldn’t even be a scenario under consideration, regardless of his NMC.

 

[TaLoN]

BG just needs to tell Parise that the only way he’s staying in Minnesota is if he waives his NMC. If Parise doesn’t want to oblige, buy him out. Protecting Parise shouldn’t even be a scenario under consideration, regardless of his NMC.

Not much incentive for Parise to waive then if he can expect a big cash payout for not waiving.

 

[Spurgeon]

Not much incentive for Parise to waive then if he can expect a big cash payout for not waiving.

Not really a huge cash payout. Only $10M left over 4 years, so he’ll get $6.7M of that. He was going to get $6M this upcoming season, so he’s really not getting a big payout.

I guess you could make the argument that gets him the majority of his remaining contract and the ability to sign with a new team, but he’s not going to get a very big contract. That’s why it comes down to if he really wants to stay in Minnesota or not.

 

[TaLoN]

Not really a huge cash payout. Only $10M left over 4 years, so he’ll get $6.7M of that. He was going to get $6M this upcoming season, so he’s really not getting a big payout.

I guess you could make the argument that gets him the majority of his remaining contract and the ability to sign with a new team, but he’s not going to get a very big contract. That’s why it comes down to if he really wants to stay in Minnesota or not.

Getting more per year gone than if he was here... it's incentive to not waive and then get bought out.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Not really a huge cash payout. Only $10M left over 4 years, so he’ll get $6.7M of that. He was going to get $6M this upcoming season, so he’s really not getting a big payout.

I guess you could make the argument that gets him the majority of his remaining contract and the ability to sign with a new team, but he’s not going to get a very big contract. That’s why it comes down to if he really wants to stay in Minnesota or not.

Speculating here, but Guerin might have had a 1-on-1 conversation with Parise after not trading him to the Islanders, where the two agreed to keep Parise on the roster for next season and maybe the 22/23 season, but after that Parise would go quietly into the LTIR night. Because if they didn't have that agreement, it would have made sense to buyout Parise last off-season, as the Wild get penalized more the longer they wait on buying him out, to the point where it doesn't make much sense during the final years of his contract.

At some point, Parise's cap hit will be too punitive on the Wild, likely when it is trying to re-sign Greenway and Sturm, then Rossi, Boldy, Addison, etc.

If Parise is a team player, Guerin can use the expansion draft to drop some salary, acquire a center, re-sign Kap, Fiala, and JEE, and maybe go some deep runs over the next couple of seasons.

But if that happens, it will be very hard for Parise to live up to that agreement if the Wild are contenders during the 23/24 period.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Parise won't waive and I'm sure the players association and union aren't too excited about the idea either. I think the only player to agree to waive ahead of the Las Vegas expansion draft was Fleury who waived only for Vegas and then went there. The union won't be happy fighting so hard for no movement deals just to have players start giving back that leverage for free. It sucks but that is pretty much what we can expect. Hope I am wrong.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Parise won't waive and I'm sure the players association and union aren't too excited about the idea either. I think the only player to agree to waive ahead of the Las Vegas expansion draft was Fleury who waived only for Vegas and then went there. The union won't be happy fighting so hard for no movement deals just to have players start giving back that leverage for free. It sucks but that is pretty much what we can expect. Hope I am wrong.

Union won't care in the slightest. There is zero difference in Parise waiving to be exposed for Seattle, and Hall waiving to go to Boston.

For the union, what's important about NMCs is giving control to the player. In Hall's case, he's using that control to dictate his landing spot. In Parise's spot, he'd be using that control to ensure he's playing on a better team next year (assuming he accepts the reality there is zero chance he'd be picked).

Although I tend to agree Parise won't waive for expansion.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Union won't care in the slightest. There is zero difference in Parise waiving to be exposed for Seattle, and Hall waiving to go to Boston.

For the union, what's important about NMCs is giving control to the player. In Hall's case, he's using that control to dictate his landing spot. In Parise's spot, he'd be using that control to ensure he's playing on a better team next year (assuming he accepts the reality there is zero chance he'd be picked).

Although I tend to agree Parise won't waive for expansion.

Agree to disagree.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Agree to disagree.

What part?

What in your point of view is the point of a NMC if not to give the player some control to do what in their opinion is their best interest?

 

[HotDish]

Parise won't waive and I'm sure the players association and union aren't too excited about the idea either. I think the only player to agree to waive ahead of the Las Vegas expansion draft was Fleury who waived only for Vegas and then went there. The union won't be happy fighting so hard for no movement deals just to have players start giving back that leverage for free. It sucks but that is pretty much what we can expect. Hope I am wrong.

Tobias Enstrom waived for the Jets. He wanted to open another spot for the jets to protect since he knew he wasn't going to be picked. Plus he wanted to stay with the Jets, so he didn't do it in the hopes of leaving.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

What part?

What in your point of view is the point of a NMC if not to give the player some control to do what in their opinion is their best interest?

Obviously. But that's not what is happening here so the context matters. This is about the team asking vets to waive their NTC for the sole purpose of helping the team (not the player) so that another player can be exposed and thus protecting a better asset. I'm saying that the players union isn't a big fan of players using this negotiated clause not for themselves but for the team with no compensation.

It's the same as taking any hard fought win in a negotiation and then handing it back. But Hotdish found an example so although rare, I guess it happens. But I doubt the players union is happy about it.

 

[57special]

I think the best option is to get Parise to waive for the ED, perhaps sending a late pick to Seattle to assure ZP that he will not get taken.
Continue to play him until he until he is no longer able to contribute( IMO, he is a decent bottom six player right now, though obviously overpaid), then go the LTIR route,when it becomes obvious he can no longer contribute( a year or two from now?).With his history of back troubles, I'm sure it could be done. That way, the final 2 or 3 years of his contract don't affect the team cap, ZP still gets his money, and we avoid cap recapture penalties.

The only was this gets done is if both sides cooperate. Casting Parise aside, or treating him w/o respect, will backfire on the team.

 

[SomethingGeneric]

Obviously. But that's not what is happening here so the context matters. This is about the team asking vets to waive their NTC for the sole purpose of helping the team (not the player) so that another player can be exposed and thus protecting a better asset. I'm saying that the players union isn't a big fan of players using this negotiated clause not for themselves but for the team with no compensation.

It's the same as taking any hard fought win in a negotiation and then handing it back. But Hotdish found an example so although rare, I guess it happens. But I doubt the players union is happy about it.

It helps the player (Parise) by keeping the team around him stronger. He won't be picked and allows to protect one of Greenway or Dumba making the team next year better therefore benefiting Parise.

 

[57special]

It helps the player (Parise) by keeping the team around him stronger. He won't be picked and allows to protect one of Greenway or Dumba making the team next year better therefore benefiting Parise.

Mebbe, and maybe he thinks that Greenway out of the way will open up a spot for him. I mean, he'll never say it out loud, but he might well be thinking it.

 

[TaLoN]

Obviously. But that's not what is happening here so the context matters. This is about the team asking vets to waive their NTC for the sole purpose of helping the team (not the player) so that another player can be exposed and thus protecting a better asset. I'm saying that the players union isn't a big fan of players using this negotiated clause not for themselves but for the team with no compensation.

It's the same as taking any hard fought win in a negotiation and then handing it back. But Hotdish found an example so although rare, I guess it happens. But I doubt the players union is happy about it.

I don't think the NHLPA gives a damn one way or another what Parise does.

He earned the right to make a choice. That is what they fought for. It's his choice, not theirs.

They didn't fight for the players right to make a choice, only to then deny that choice when the players want to make it.

 

[2Pair]

Agree to disagree.

The union wouldn't care one bit about a player choosing to waive or enforce his NMC.

 

[2Pair]

Mebbe, and maybe he thinks that Greenway out of the way will open up a spot for him. I mean, he'll never say it out loud, but he might well be thinking it.

That's why you make it clear that the only way he's staying on the team is to waive his NMC. If he chooses not to, he will be bought out, or just flat out sent home.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

They didn't fight for the players right to make a choice, only to then deny that choice when the players want to make it.

They also didn't fight for that right for teams to simply take advantage of it or attempt to circumvent it. If Hall wants to waive to go to Boston, great, that's what the clause was intended for. But if Parise wants to waive so that MN can keep Greenway instead, and then move/buy out/etc Parise when it is more convenient after the expansion draft then that is not exactly the point. Again, I disagree but that's ok.

 

[TaLoN]

They also didn't fight for that right for teams to simply take advantage of it or attempt to circumvent it. If Hall wants to waive to go to Boston, great, that's what the clause was intended for. But if Parise wants to waive so that MN can keep Greenway instead, and then move/buy out/etc Parise when it is more convenient after the expansion draft then that is not exactly the point. Again, I disagree but that's ok.

If Zach waives for the expansion draft, that's all it's waived for. It doesn't remove the clause. It is just removed for the expansion draft only. Nothing more.

It has no effect on buyouts anyway... even if he doesn't waive he can be bought out later. What can't be done later if he waives for the expansion draft, is to trade him without his approval. The NMC being waived is for the ED only.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

If Zach waives for the expansion draft, that's all it's waived for. It doesn't remove the clause. It is just removed for the expansion draft only. Nothing more.

It has no effect on buyouts anyway... even if he doesn't waive he can be bought out later. What can't be done later if he waives for the expansion draft, is to trade him without his approval. The NMC being waived is for the ED only.

Do we know that for sure? And it can certainly have an effect on the timing of a buy out is my point.