Minnesota Wild General Discussion XV

[Lapa]

Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIV

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[16thOverallSaveUs]

Alright, I’m caught up now. I agree with @2Pair that Guerin’s worst move was far and away the Spurgeon deal. He should’ve just traded Spurgeon at the time for what he could get and built around a younger pair in Brodin/Dumba. I don’t think he’s off the hook for his failure to acquire a center, either. At the time I was fine not trading Brodin for Trocheck, but when we saw what he went for, it looked like a total failure by Guerin.

I guess what I see Guerin’s thought processes being is that, once he locked himself into spurgeon, he realized he could keep one of Brodin/Dumba, so he chose to keep the one that was less replaceable.

The one thing that really bugs me with some fans on this board is the recency bias. People are down on Fiala after a 14 game season where he’s scoring at a goal ever other game? He’s top 10 in goals/60 among wingers since the start of last year. We absolutely need him long term and it’s almost perfect that dean isn’t giving him the PP time he needs so we can get his AAV down. (Dean is also a noted idiot).

 

[Val]

How many times has Wild won the Stanley Cup? I don't know ^^

 

[grimmel95]

Alright, I’m caught up now. I agree with @2Pair that Guerin’s worst move was far and away the Spurgeon deal. He should’ve just traded Spurgeon at the time for what he could get and built around a younger pair in Brodin/Dumba. I don’t think he’s off the hook for his failure to acquire a center, either. At the time I was fine not trading Brodin for Trocheck, but when we saw what he went for, it looked like a total failure by Guerin.

I guess what I see Guerin’s thought processes being is that, once he locked himself into spurgeon, he realized he could keep one of Brodin/Dumba, so he chose to keep the one that was less replaceable.

The one thing that really bugs me with some fans on this board is the recency bias. People are down on Fiala after a 14 game season where he’s scoring at a goal ever other game? He’s top 10 in goals/60 among wingers since the start of last year. We absolutely need him long term and it’s almost perfect that dean isn’t giving him the PP time he needs so we can get his AAV down. (Dean is also a noted idiot).

What is everyone's fascination with Dumba? He's not a great defender, doesn't provide as much offense as he should and doesn't move the puck as well as he should. Spurg is better in every phase of hockey vs dumba and to be honest i'm glad Guerin signed Spurgeon long term. You don't build around guys like Dumba (you use them to aquire players of need) but you for sure build around player like Spurgeon and Brodin which is what Guerin is doing.

 

[Lapa]

How many times has Wild won the Stanley Cup? I don't know ^^

Zero so far.

 

[Victorious Secret]

How many times has Wild won the Stanley Cup? I don't know ^^

Here's your answer.

 

[HotDish]

What is everyone's fascination with Dumba? He's not a great defender, doesn't provide as much offense as he should and doesn't move the puck as well as he should. Spurg is better in every phase of hockey vs dumba and to be honest i'm glad Guerin signed Spurgeon long term. You don't build around guys like Dumba (you use them to aquire players of need) but you for sure build around player like Spurgeon and Brodin which is what Guerin is doing.

So i take it you don't watch the games right?

 

[Minnewildsota]

So i take it you don't watch the games right?

I would agree he's not a great defender. He's average at best, imho. You ice him for his offense from the blue line and accept the risks that occur defensively.

If he's not producing offensively, the risks become greater

 

[HotDish]

I would agree he's not a great defender. He's average at best, imho. You ice him for his offense from the blue line and accept the risks that occur defensively.

Sure he isn't the shutdown guy, but their statement feels like to me Dumba is a detriment and liability on the Blue line. I think Dumba is average to even slightly above average.

I rather have Dumba than Spurgeon for instance and it isn't even close.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

What is everyone's fascination with Dumba? He's not a great defender, doesn't provide as much offense as he should and doesn't move the puck as well as he should. Spurg is better in every phase of hockey vs dumba and to be honest i'm glad Guerin signed Spurgeon long term. You don't build around guys like Dumba (you use them to aquire players of need) but you for sure build around player like Spurgeon and Brodin which is what Guerin is doing.

Spurgeon is not better than Dumba in every phase of the game. the two players are relatively similar levels of player. I think they're both #2 defenseman, so keep the younger one. Instead, he signed the older one for too long and a million too much.

 

[2Pair]

Alright, I’m caught up now. I agree with @2Pair that Guerin’s worst move was far and away the Spurgeon deal. He should’ve just traded Spurgeon at the time for what he could get and built around a younger pair in Brodin/Dumba. I don’t think he’s off the hook for his failure to acquire a center, either. At the time I was fine not trading Brodin for Trocheck, but when we saw what he went for, it looked like a total failure by Guerin.

I guess what I see Guerin’s thought processes being is that, once he locked himself into spurgeon, he realized he could keep one of Brodin/Dumba, so he chose to keep the one that was less replaceable.

The one thing that really bugs me with some fans on this board is the recency bias. People are down on Fiala after a 14 game season where he’s scoring at a goal ever other game? He’s top 10 in goals/60 among wingers since the start of last year. We absolutely need him long term and it’s almost perfect that dean isn’t giving him the PP time he needs so we can get his AAV down. (Dean is also a noted idiot).

For me, the biggest problem is that Guerin can't decide to lock up the vets like Spurgeon and the rest, but then sit and wait on the centers. It's a one or the other type of plan.

Just like I don't have a major problem with choosing Brodin over Dumba, but it makes zero sense to lock into that decision until you have a deal made for Dumba.

 

[2Pair]

What is everyone's fascination with Dumba? He's not a great defender, doesn't provide as much offense as he should and doesn't move the puck as well as he should. Spurg is better in every phase of hockey vs dumba and to be honest i'm glad Guerin signed Spurgeon long term. You don't build around guys like Dumba (you use them to aquire players of need) but you for sure build around player like Spurgeon and Brodin which is what Guerin is doing.

Dumba is the better player on the offensive end. He's much better on the PP. He's even been the better player in their own end so far this season as well.

 

[Spurgeon]

I know Spurgeon has had a slow start to the season, but he crushes Dumba in pretty much every advanced analytic over the past 5 seasons. I think the only season Dumba might have had better underlying statistics was the 17-18 season.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Probably the wrong 14 game stretch to do the ‘Spurgeon is better at everything’ thing.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

That Spurgeon deal happened so fast after he was hired that I still think he honored a previously negotiated deal that Leipold approved.

ETA: doesn't make it any better but I don't hang that one on GMBG's neck.

 

[Spurgeon]

Probably the wrong 14 game stretch to do the ‘Spurgeon is better at everything’ thing.

Never made the claim he was better at everything. His advanced analytics do show that that he’s been a consistently better defenseman than Dumba though. I just don’t think recency bias and a 14-game sample size is enough to put Dumba on the same level of defenseman as Spurgeon.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Never made the claim he was better at everything. His advanced analytics do show that that he’s been a consistently better defenseman than Dumba though. I just don’t think recency bias and a 14-game sample size is enough to put Dumba on the same level of defenseman as Spurgeon.

Somebody else did.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Unless Eichel is incoming, keep the D intact at this point. If you trade one of the top-4 like Dumba, odds are you are going to lose Soucy in the expansion, and now Ian Cole is the team's #4D.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Unless Eichel is incoming, keep the D intact at this point. If you trade one of the top-4 like Dumba, odds are you are going to lose Soucy in the expansion, and now Ian Cole is the team's #4D.

Actually one of Menell or Addison would be the #4.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I know Spurgeon has had a slow start to the season, but he crushes Dumba in pretty much every advanced analytic over the past 5 seasons. I think the only season Dumba might have had better underlying statistics was the 17-18 season.

I think there’s a legit argument for who is going to be the better player in the next five years though. That’s more important than who was better the last five years IMO.

 

[57special]

Ever since Evason took over the team our PP has been terrible. It seems to me that is his biggest failing so far as a coach. Considering that he more or less has the same personnel as Boudreau at his disposal, it's hard to excuse this. Boudreau had Staal, yes, but no Kap, and little Fiala. He has the same dmen at his disposal, more or less. Yet BB was able to produce at least a middle of the pack PP, if not higher during his time here, while Evason has us down near the worst in the league this year, and even last year after he took over the PP took a nosedive during the 12 regular season games he coached.

If we want to be competitive, we don't have to have the best PP in the league, but it sure as hell has to be better.

 

[TaLoN]

He's a worse PP coach than Yeo was.

 

[57special]

He's a worse PP coach than Yeo was.

That's pretty bad...was it Bruno who was the PP guy under Yeo?

Anyway, Evason needs to fix this problem or it's going to cost him his job. I see him flailing out there, just throwing guys out there and hoping things work. I mean, i can do that.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I’m sure Deano gives input, but shouldn’t this fall more on the shoulders of our PP coach?

 

[Minnesnota]

I’m sure Deano gives input, but shouldn’t this fall more on the shoulders of our PP coach?

Evason needs to fire whoever is in charge of the PP if that's the case.