Player Discussion Mikko Koivu (Part II)

[57special]

I want his jersey retired.

 

[HotDish]

I think if he was Canadian or American (like Parise) and had the career like that there would be no people speaking against his number's retirement. Just funny.

His number will be retired. Don't worry about it. Nothing you can do against it or to change it. And it will be a great moment for him and even greater for the Minnesota Wild organization.

eh, i'm team retire Koivu.

I don't think it has anything to do with nationality. For instance down the road there might be talk of retiring Parise/ Suter i think the same arguments used against Koivu will be used against them.

No cups, not HoF players, no big team success like multiple division banners and etc.(saying that if Suter plays out his career he might be a HoF since it seems to be getting easier to get into each year.)

I think Koivu sits in a unique situation that warrants his number in the rafters, but if there was a copy of him that started with the Wild next year and had a copy of his career. I wouldn't be wanting his number retired.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

eh, i'm team retire Koivu.

I don't think it has anything to do with nationality. For instance down the road there might be talk of retiring Parise/ Suter i think the same arguments used against Koivu will be used against them.

No cups, not HoF players, no big team success like multiple division banners and etc.(saying that if Suter plays out his career he might be a HoF since it seems to be getting easier to get into each year.)

I think Koivu sits in a unique situation that warrants his number in the rafters, but if there was a copy of him that started with the Wild next year and had a copy of his career. I wouldn't be wanting his number retired.

And this is a lot of my issue it. It's an honor based almost solely around circumstance, not achievement.

 

[HotDish]

And this is a lot of my issue it. It's an honor based almost solely around circumstance, not achievement.

And i think that is the root of the disagreement on both sides. I think he is worthy because of the rare circumstance he sits in. being the first true captain. first and only player to play 1000 games for Wild, the face of the franchise for both casual Wild fans and non Wild fans.

I do understand the other side though since I was on that side till this season.

I just hope Koivu is a 1 time exception.

I think it is a foregone conclusion that this point though, and mostly I'm hoping that 1 WILD FANS comes down once they put 9 up.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

And i think that is the root of the disagreement on both sides. I think he is worthy because of the rare circumstance he sits in. being the first true captain. first and only player to play 1000 games for Wild, the face of the franchise for both casual Wild fans and non Wild fans.

I do understand the other side though since I was on that side till this season.

I just hope Koivu is a 1 time exception.

I think it is a foregone conclusion that this point though, and mostly I'm hoping that 1 WILD FANS comes down once they put 9 up.

Yeah, I'm fully expecting it to happen. Just not a huge of it.

Maybe an ok compromise would be to have his number replace the #1.

Regarding the 1 time exception, if Spurgeon plays out his contract with us, he'll be a pretty interesting discussion if you use Koivu as any kind of a "standard".

 

[57special]

Would be kind of cool if we drafted Lundell at #9, and he asked Koivu if he could wear #9.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

If you retire 9, when it’s all said and done you better also retire 20. And if we’re retiring 20...

 

[a79krgm]

I attended most of his home games those 15 years. I don't call them "failures." He was a great captain and so much more. In about 90 percent of his career he played against the top lines and played well. I loved to watch that shootout move. He was also a class guy that never had issues with coaches, management or media like so many do today. When his number is hanging from the rafters, future Wild players can look up and be reminded to strive to live up to the standard he set.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I attended most of his home games those 15 years. I don't call them "failures." He was a great captain and so much more. In about 90 percent of his career he played against the top lines and played well. I loved to watch that shootout move. He was also a class guy that never had issues with coaches, management or media like so many do today. When his number is hanging from the rafters, future Wild players can look up and be reminded to strive to live up to the standard he set.

2nd round and not a game further.

 

[a79krgm]

2nd round and not a game further.

Please explain the faults of Mikko's play and/or character that prohibited the Wild advancing to the conference finals. Please be specific.

 

[AKL]

I think if he was Canadian or American (like Parise) and had the career like that there would be no people speaking against his number's retirement. Just funny.

His number will be retired. Don't worry about it. Nothing you can do against it or to change it. And it will be a great moment for him and even greater for the Minnesota Wild organization.

Well this is one of the stupider things I've read in a while.

 

[AKL]

I attended most of his home games those 15 years. I don't call them "failures." He was a great captain and so much more. In about 90 percent of his career he played against the top lines and played well. I loved to watch that shootout move. He was also a class guy that never had issues with coaches, management or media like so many do today. When his number is hanging from the rafters, future Wild players can look up and be reminded to strive to live up to the standard he set.

I would prefer they aim higher than the mediocrity this franchise has been stuck in for his entire tenure.

 

[AKL]

Admittedly, if he was #52 or #26 or something, I would be more open to it. I still wouldn't agree with it, but I probably wouldn't care.

But you don't retire an iconic hockey number like #9 for Mikko Koivu.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Please explain the faults of Mikko's play and/or character that prohibited the Wild advancing to the conference finals. Please be specific.

Nothing in the character (unless the waitress rumors are true), but I'm not in favor of retiring jerseys for character unless you're Jackie Robinson or something.

As for the play, the 39 points per 82 games in 59 playoff games would probably be a flashing red light to me. He's a career 57 point per 82 game player in the regular season, so we're talking about a pretty drastic decrease there. I don't know if that's specific enough though.

 

[thestonedkoala]

As for the play, the 39 points per 82 games in 59 playoff games would probably be a blinking red light to me. He's a career 57 point per 82 game player in the regular season, so we're talking about a pretty drastic decrease there. I don't know if that's specific enough though.

The points is a big one for me; the lack of goals is another one.

 

[TheeNorthStar]

When his number is hanging from the rafters, future Wild players can look up and be reminded to strive to live up to the standard he set.

 

[BagHead]

If you retire 9, when it’s all said and done you better also retire 20. And if we’re retiring 20...

That is the danger of retiring a number based off of circumstances instead of achievements, but I think Koivu's got a lot better case for it so far than Suter does, much less Parise. Also, and this isn't really directed at you but, can we stop attaching Parise and Suter together like they're the Sedin twins? These guys signed identical contracts, but that doesn't mean that we have to look at them as a pair. Both have had their good moments in Minnesota, but one has obviously out performed the other.

Admittedly, if he was #52 or #26 or something, I would be more open to it. I still wouldn't agree with it, but I probably wouldn't care.

But you don't retire an iconic hockey number like #9 for Mikko Koivu.

Compromise and retire #21 for Koivu? Still too iconic?

But yeah, I'm against retiring Koivu's number, which is saying something, because I used to be for it. Back then I thought he might make it past 800 points, and play 1200 games for the Wild. If those things had happened, I'd probably still be for it, but they didn't.

 

[Aurinko]

Even tho I'm a huge fan of the defensive style Koivu plays, and started to follow NHL / followed MN closely almost a decade mostly thanks to him, I'm quite sure the plan is to get a fast and young team and this is the right way to go.

Ejecting Staal, Koivu, Niederreiter is the only way to get young and exciting team together. Rebuild will almost surely start with a slump, but at the same time it is exciting to see new young players develop.

 

[a79krgm]

Nothing in the character (unless the waitress rumors are true), but I'm not in favor of retiring jerseys for character unless you're Jackie Robinson or something.

As for the play, the 39 points per 82 games in 59 playoff games would probably be a flashing red light to me. He's a career 57 point per 82 game player in the regular season, so we're talking about a pretty drastic decrease there. I don't know if that's specific enough though.

No that doesn't prove that Koviu is specifically to blame for not advancing past the 2nd round.

Most years the Wild had little chance of reaching past the 2nd round. With this truth blaming Koivu doesn't make sense. I tend to blame injuries, coaching, management, ownership a team's lake of success. ​

Disparities in point production between regular and playoff seasons are common for teams that don't have playoff success. In 2018 the Wild were taken in 5 games by the Jets and Staal had only had two points. Is it Staal's fault the team didn't advance? BTW, in that series Koivu registered 4 points. Not bad for a 34 year old defensive specialist.

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How can hockey players be like Jackie Robinson?
And what "rumors" are you referring to?

 

[AKL]

Disparities in point production between regular and playoff seasons are common for teams that don't have playoff success. In 2018 the Wild were taken in 5 games by the Jets and Staal had only had two points. Is it Staal's fault the team didn't advance? BTW, in that series Koivu registered 4 points. Not bad for a 34 year old defensive specialist.

Bluntly, yes, he is one of the reasons. He needs to be better than that.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

No that doesn't prove that Koviu is specifically to blame for not advancing past the 2nd round.

Most years the Wild had little chance of reaching past the 2nd round. With this truth blaming Koivu doesn't make sense. I tend to blame injuries, coaching, management, ownership a team's lake of success. ​

Disparities in point production between regular and playoff seasons are common for teams that don't have playoff success. In 2018 the Wild were taken in 5 games by the Jets and Staal had only had two points. Is it Staal's fault the team didn't advance? BTW, in that series Koivu registered 4 points. Not bad for a 34 year old defensive specialist.

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How can hockey players be like Jackie Robinson?
And what "rumors" are you referring to?

Yeah, partly. 2 points in 5 games is substandard 1C production, so he didn’t do his job that year either.

 

[thestonedkoala]

BTW, in that series Koivu registered 4 points. Not bad for a 34 year old defensive specialist.

That's kind of misleading; he hasn't scored a goal in the playoffs since 2017. His last goal was on April 22, 2017. Over three years ago. That's two playoff series.

 

[AKL]

That's kind of misleading; he hasn't scored a goal in the playoffs since 2017. His last goal was on April 22, 2017. Over three years ago. That's two playoff series.

4 assists mean 4 goals happened that Koivu was a large part of.

 

[HotDish]

That's kind of misleading; he hasn't scored a goal in the playoffs since 2017. His last goal was on April 22, 2017. Over three years ago. That's two playoff series.

Assists are just as good as goalies in my eyes. Both end with the same outcome, a point goes on the score board for the good guys.

 

[Al Lagoon]

I want his jersey retired.

I don't like the whole concept of retiring jerseys. Having a team hall of fame should be sufficient.

That said, I could understand if a team decided to retire the number of a player who was outstanding, won trophies, Cups, and was like Crosby, a generational player.

Koivu was none of the above. He was a good player, and he managed to play his whole career of over 1,000 games with one team, and he was their first permanent captain, solid achievements to be sure. But what did he win? Nada.

Just because the Wild are a relatively young franchise doesn't mean they need to rush to fill the rafters with marginal banners.