Player Discussion Mikko Koivu (Part II)

[57special]

Retire his jersey. He represents MN Wild hockey, and has carried himself with class on top of it. It's not about the numbers, in his case.

 

[TaLoN]

This is what the Islanders do, probably other teams as well. It's an excellent compromise.

I don't know, you look at the list of guys with their numbers retired across the league, most of them all hall of famers.

Guys like Nick Lidstrom, Joe Sakic, Ron Francis just to name a few. Koivu doesn't belong with these names.

Like I said, players like Doan, Linden, Broten, Koivu are rare. They get their jerseys retired for reasons that are not measurable for the most part. It's not common, and retiring Koivu's number won't suddenly make it common.

 

[TaLoN]

But that impact clearly isn't felt by everyone, as it seems a majority of people in this thread don't agree his number should be retired.

Pretty sure the majority of Wild fans would absolutely be in favor of it despite what the numbers are one way or another in this thread.

 

[AKL]

Pretty sure the majority of Wild fans would absolutely be in favor of it despite what the numbers are one way or another in this thread.

The majority of casual sports fans are dumb.

Like I said, players like Doan, Linden, Broten, Koivu are rare. They get their jerseys retired for reasons that are not measurable for the most part. It's not common, and retiring Koivu's number won't suddenly make it common.

They're not rare. And frankly, Koivu doesn't belong with those other players. Koivu was an average 2C for most of his career that received elevated status because he played on an expansion team.
Put him on virtually any other team in the league and retiring his jersey isn't a consideration.

 

[HotDish]

Start a Minnesta Wild Ring of Honor/Hall of Fame.

Make Koivu the first inductee and make a HUGE deal about it.

Please don't open up the possibility that we miss out on a key player because he's attached to the number 9 (hockey players are weird sometimes) and we made it off-limits because a guy we drafted early on didn't leave, made the 2nd round a couple of times, and had a Selke nomination.

Yeah i don't ever see this happening. Has this ever happened? I can't find one example of this. Plus if a player is this petty, I don't know if i'd want him on my team. What's next a player refuses to board a plane because someone took his seat?

I grew up playing basketball always wearing 32. When I got into travelling basketball I was told I couldn't wear 32 since that was a forward number and I was a guard. I switched to 10. I actually ended up liking 10 more since it was a more rare number in Basketball.

These guys are big boys, they can survive not wearing their number most that are attached to it just flip the number around like 17 becomes 71. maybe you could wear 90 instead of 9 or flip it upside down as 6.

 

[TaLoN]

The majority of casual sports fans are dumb.



They're not rare. And frankly, Koivu doesn't belong with those other players. Koivu was an average 2C for most of his career that received elevated status because he played on an expansion team.
Put him on virtually any other team in the league and retiring his jersey isn't a consideration.

Koivu produced at a higher rate than most mentioned. Was as or more complete player, was a consummate leader like 2 of the 3....

None of those players are guys you'd want as the best player on your team if you plan on winning the cup, but that doesn't change the fact that they meant a lot and more to their teams either way.

And yes, the connection those guys made, for the caliber players they were... it's rare.

 

[HotDish]

They're not rare. And frankly, Koivu doesn't belong with those other players. Koivu was an average 2C for most of his career that received elevated status because he played on an expansion team.
Put him on virtually any other team in the league and retiring his jersey isn't a consideration.

Isn't that the point. If Mikko 2.0 was drafted next year and had the same career i wouldn't expect him to have his numnber retired. But Mikko was the face of the Wild for so long. Reddit had a poll last year(I think it was last year) where fans throughtout the league voted on what player old or new represents each team. Mikko won overwhelmingly for the Wild. I am not in favor of Suter or Parise being in the rafters, but Koviu is Minnesota.

I use to be to be on the other side of this fence and was even recently. (before this season) However, now I think it would be a shame for someone that loved Minnesota and was our first captain, and leds Minnesota in: Games Played, Assists, Points, Goal created, Plus/Minus, and second in goals.

He was the first Wild player to play 1000 games for Minnesota.

 

[AKL]

Isn't that the point. If Mikko 2.0 was drafted next year and had the same career i wouldn't expect him to have his numnber retired. But Mikko was the face of the Wild for so long. Reddit had a poll last year(I think it was last year) where fans throughtout the league voted on what player old or new represents each team. Mikko won overwhelmingly for the Wild. I am not in favor of Suter or Parise being in the rafters, but Koviu is Minnesota.

I use to be to be on the other side of this fence and was even recently. (before this season) However, now I think it would be a shame for someone that loved Minnesota and was our first captain, and leds Minnesota in: Games Played, Assists, Points, Goal created, Plus/Minus, and second in goals.

He was the first Wild player to play 1000 games for Minnesota.

All of this is Koivu being a "victim" of circumstance. He didn't do anything special to deserve jersey retirement. It just so happens that because we are a new franchise, and he played here his entire career, he stumbled into them.

It's not hard to be the franchise leader in all those categories when they were all set at 0 when you got here. That doesn't speak to Koivu's impact or his success here, it speaks to being the longest tenured player on a brand new franchise.

 

[Bruce Granville]

Many average Europeans can name at least one American sports team while the average Americans wouldn't be able to name a single European sport league.

83% of the Americans cannot find the US on a world map...

 

[MuckOG]

For the first 9 years of the Wild's existence, wasn't Gaborik the face of the franchise? Koivu has only filled that role since Gaborik left.

 

[thestonedkoala]

For the first 9 years of the Wild's existence, wasn't Gaborik the face of the franchise? Koivu has only filled that role since Gaborik left.

Lemaire was the face of the franchise oddly enough.

 

[TaLoN]

For the first 9 years of the Wild's existence, wasn't Gaborik the face of the franchise? Koivu has only filled that role since Gaborik left.

Gaborik was never loved in Minnesota as Koivu was. He didn't embrace the fans and team as Koivu did.

There was a big split in the fanbase, many loved Gaborik for the player he was, many wanted him run out of town for the mercenary they thought he wanted to be.

Koivu embraced the state, the franchise, the fans, everyone embraced him back.

Don't get me wrong, I was a big Gaborik fan myself, but that was just my observation.

 

[MuckOG]

Gaborik was never loved in Minnesota as Koivu was. He didn't embrace the fans and team as Koivu did.

There was a big split in the fanbase, many loved Gaborik for the player he was, many wanted him run out of town for the mercenary they thought he wanted to be.

Koivu embraced the state, the franchise, the fans, everyone embraced him back.

Don't get me wrong, I was a big Gaborik fan myself, but that was just my observation.

I 100% disagree with this statement. I know its only anecdotal, but I saw way more kids wearing Gaborik jerseys than Koivu jerseys back in those days.

 

[TaLoN]

I 100% disagree with this statement.

You don't recall the amount of fans spitting venom at Gaborik back in the day on the official wild forum back in the day? People were begging for him to be traded annually because they wanted him gone since "he thought he'd perform better in the east".

I was having to defend Gaborik daily in those days... and when he came back in a rangers uniform, the amount of boos from Wild fans was sickening!

 

[HotDish]

All of this is Koivu being a "victim" of circumstance. He didn't do anything special to deserve jersey retirement. It just so happens that because we are a new franchise, and he played here his entire career, he stumbled into them.

It's not hard to be the franchise leader in all those categories when they were all set at 0 when you got here. That doesn't speak to Koivu's impact or his success here, it speaks to being the longest tenured player on a brand new franchise.

Which is the point I'm trying to say. Koivu is a special situation. He was a the face of a expansion franchise. You can't give a history lesson on the Wild without talking about him in about every era of Wild history.

Hell pretty much every team has retired a number of a player that you would probably say doesn't deserve it.

Neal Broten was retired by North Stars - Not in HoF
Wendel Clark retired by Maple Leafs - Not in HoF
Danny Gare retired by Sabres - Not in HoF
Dale Hunter retired by Caps - Not in HoF

Mikko has way better stats than Dale Hunter you could argue he had a better career than Wendel Clark in Toronto. Why are they more deserving?

 

[MuckOG]

You don't recall the amount of fans spitting venom at Gaborik back in the day on the official wild forum back in the day? People were begging for him to be traded annually because they wanted him gone since "he thought he'd perform better in the east".

I was having to defend Gaborik daily in those days... and when he came back in a rangers uniform, the amount of boos from Wild fans was sickening!

I remember more fans spitting venom at Doug Risebrough during Gaborik's last season because he didn't trade him when he had the chance, then were spitting venom at Gaborik, himself.

Up until that last season, Gaborik was the fan favorite because he was the only player on the roster than could get fans out of their seats.

 

[TaLoN]

I 100% disagree with this statement. I know its only anecdotal, but I saw way more kids wearing Gaborik jerseys than Koivu jerseys back in those days.

Gaborik had a 6 year head start in jersey sales.

I remember more fans spitting venom at Doug Risebrough during Gaborik's last season because he didn't trade him when he had the chance, then were spitting venom at Gaborik, himself.

Up until that last season, Gaborik was the fan favorite because he was the only player on the roster than could get fans out of their seats.

People were on the love/ hate train with Gaborik long before people were on the hate train with Risebrough.

It all started with Gaborik's hold out.

 

[Victorious Secret]

I fail to see how it is a requirement to be a huge star or a champion for a team to get his jersey retired. Koivu was the face of your franchise for the majority of your existence, your first captain. Most games played for your team. If that does not get your jersey retired then I'm sorry, your NA sports culture is a JOKE. No wonder you have so little tradition in sports compared to Europe when you have fans with this attitude.

I don't care if you have a european boner, but by the same argument David Legwand and Rick Nash should be having their jerseys retired. I don't want to reward that level of 'success'. Good players? yes. Jersey retirement worthy? No.

I don't see longevity and one time Selke Finalist as rafter worthy.

 

[OmazingGrace]

Grr. I was hoping he'd retire with the Wild. That said, wherever he signs, hopefully they win a cup. He deserves it.

 

[Prior]

If this team was something other than an expansion team, yes, maybe Koivu doesn’t get his number retired.

That’s not the reality though. The number will be getting retired and I don’t see too much of a reason to be all that upset about it given everything Koivu gave to the team and the market.

 

[AKL]

If this team was something other than an expansion team, yes, maybe Koivu doesn’t get his number retired.

That’s not the reality though. The number will be getting retired and I don’t see too much of a reason to be all that upset about it given everything Koivu gave to the team and the market.

What did he give?

 

[Wild11MN]

Grr. I was hoping he'd retire with the Wild. That said, wherever he signs, hopefully they win a cup. He deserves it.

I think the general thought is that he will retire or go play back in Finland.

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

Risbrough left this team is disarray, it took a while to turn around and then we had to go through Chicago.

how many times did we lose a series to the eventual champion or conference finalist ? Almost every year ? That’s not on Koivu, gotta start it somewhere and he’s fitting for it. I think 1000 games, longest tenured captain, holds a few franchise records. He’s earned it.

 

[OmazingGrace]

I think the general thought is that he will retire or go play back in Finland.

Hope so.

 

[MuckOG]

Risbrough left this team is disarray, it took a while to turn around and then we had to go through Chicago.

how many times did we lose a series to the eventual champion or conference finalist ? Almost every year ? That’s not on Koivu, gotta start it somewhere and he’s fitting for it. I think 1000 games, longest tenured captain, holds a few franchise records. He’s earned it.

NHL history is littered with good players who played on sucky teams and didn't get much recognition for it.

Longest tenured captain? That's only by default, because he is the first permanent captain in this franchise's history.

I like the idea of a ring of honor or a Wild hall of fame for players like Mikko. Just my personal opinion, but the honor of retiring a player's number should be reserved for special players like Hall of Famers, Cup champions, scoring leaders, multiple NHL awards (ie Selke), etc.

Just being a captain, playing 1000 games, and "intangibles" shouldn't be the standard, IMO.