Player Discussion Mikko Koivu (Part II)

[TheeNorthStar]

It'd be super cringe but understandable.

(i really hope they don't but knowing the org, they will)

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Both Linden and Alfredsson at least made it to the Cup finals.

 

[MuckOG]

Trevor Linden in Vancouver.

Linden had more post season success and production than Koivu.

 

[TaLoN]

Linden had more post season success and production than Koivu.

That's because he didn't play for an expansion team.

 

[MuckOG]

That's because he didn't play for an expansion team.

That might excuse the first half of his career. The Wild have been around for 20 years now.

The Ottawa Senators were a young franchise and Alfredsson still had more post season success. In fact, the Senators only missed the playoffs 3 years while he was with them

 

[LOFIN]

I fail to see how it is a requirement to be a huge star or a champion for a team to get his jersey retired. Koivu was the face of your franchise for the majority of your existence, your first captain. Most games played for your team. If that does not get your jersey retired then I'm sorry, your NA sports culture is a JOKE. No wonder you have so little tradition in sports compared to Europe when you have fans with this attitude.

 

[TaLoN]

That might excuse the first half of his career. The Wild have been around for 20 years now.

Linden played more than 300 more games than Koivu, but their production is only a little over 100pts different. Koivu even has more assists. Their production is pretty even actually in terms of points or game.

 

[MuckOG]

I fail to see how it is a requirement to be a huge star or a champion for a team to get his jersey retired. Koivu was the face of your franchise for the majority of your existence, your first captain. Most games played for your team. If that does not get your jersey retired then I'm sorry, your NA sports culture is a JOKE. No wonder you have so little tradition in sports compared to Europe when you have fans with this attitude.

Nobody said it was requirement. I was just asking if there was any precedent, that's all.

 

[AKL]

I fail to see how it is a requirement to be a huge star or a champion for a team to get his jersey retired. Koivu was the face of your franchise for the majority of your existence, your first captain. Most games played for your team. If that does not get your jersey retired then I'm sorry, your NA sports culture is a JOKE. No wonder you have so little tradition in sports compared to Europe when you have fans with this attitude.

Hot take, tell us more

 

[MuckOG]

Linden played more than 300 more games than Koivu, but their production is only a little over 100pts different. Koivu even has more assists. Their production is pretty even actually in terms of points or game.

Linden's post season totals: 124 games 99 points
Koivu's post season totals: 59 games 28 points

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I mean, can we say that Linden's jersey probably shouldn't be retired either?

 

[TaLoN]

Linden's post season totals: 124 games 99 points
Koivu's post season totals: 59 games 28 points

You can't blame Koivu for Risebrough's failures as a GM.

It's not Koivu's fault that when he was at his peak, he had Brunette and Miettinen as his wingers.

 

[milesfj]

This really is not a surprise. the 1000 game celebration felt like a sendoff

 

[AKL]

You can't blame Koivu for Risebrough's failures as a GM.

It's not Koivu's fault that when he was at his peak, he had Brunette and Miettinen as his wingers.

But neither should his jersey be retired for it.

 

[IHaveNoCreativity]

I think you retire it because he was here his whole career, was the captain and a fan favourite. You have to set the bar, you can raise it afterwards.

 

[MuckOG]

You can't blame Koivu for Risebrough's failures as a GM.

It's not Koivu's fault that when he was at his peak, he had Brunette and Miettinen as his wingers.

Risebrough has been gone for a while now. Koivu hasn't led the Wild past the 1st round of the playoffs in the last 5 years. Can't blame Risebrough for that.

 

[AKL]

I think you retire it because he was here his whole career, was the captain and a fan favourite. You have to set the bar, you can raise it afterwards.

Set the bar higher

 

[TaLoN]

I mean, can we say that Linden's jersey probably shouldn't be retired either?

Some players stature with a franchise far surpasses their overall level as a player.

Koivu and Linden both meant far more to their franchises than stat sheets show imo.

It's why IMO, Koivu is a no brainer for jersey retirement, yet Parise and Suter have virtually no shot.

 

[Bazeek]

Some players stature with a franchise far surpasses their overall level as a player.

Koivu and Linden both meant far more to their franchises than stat sheets show imo.

It's why IMO, Koivu is a no brainer for jersey retirement, yet Parise and Suter have virtually no shot.

I rescind what I said. Retiring Parise's number would summarize this team in the worse possible way.

 

[TaLoN]

Risebrough has been gone for a while now. Koivu hasn't led the Wild past the 1st round of the playoffs in the last 6 years. Can't blame Risebrough for that.

Was or wasn't Koivu at his peak at that time?

That was when he was a clear top line center. Yes, teams got better around him later, but he wasn't as good of a player later and was miscast as a top line center at that point, the team needed more.

The NHL is not a league where 1 player carries a team. The failings are not all on him like you're implying.

 

[AKL]

I rescind what I said. Retiring Parise's number would summarize this team in the worse possible way.

The fact that you have "retiring" "Parise's" and "number" consecutively in a sentence in an unironic way is a cardinal sin.

 

[HotDish]

I fail to see how it is a requirement to be a huge star or a champion for a team to get his jersey retired. Koivu was the face of your franchise for the majority of your existence, your first captain. Most games played for your team. If that does not get your jersey retired then I'm sorry, your NA sports culture is a JOKE. No wonder you have so little tradition in sports compared to Europe when you have fans with this attitude.

As in for the Wild or NA sports as a whole?

Yes the Wild had have very little tradition. We have been mediocre for our whole existence. Never good enough to win a cup, never bad enough to draft game breakers.

Now as NA as a whole this is a brutally false take. American sport trump any European league except for Soccer. Many average Europeans can name at least one American sports team while the average Americans wouldn't be able to name a single European sport league.

The NY Yankees are one of the largest brands in the entire world and I mean all brands not even sports brands.

people around the world know who Micheal jordan was. I can't tell you who the greatest european player every to play in the Spanish basketball league was.

Europeans dream about being about to play in North American leagues. North Americans don't dream about playing in Italy.

Soccer is a different beast. Unfortunately NA doesn't care to watch cross country with a ball.*

*The last statement is a complete joke, I actually love MNUFC. Come on you Loons!

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

It’s going to be an absolutely awful look when 9, 11, and 20 are all hanging in the rafter next to the MNWild fans flag

 

[AKL]

It’s going to be an absolutely awful look when 9, 11, and 20 are all hanging in the rafter next to the MNWild fans flag

Don't forget 25 when he retires. He played his whole career here, so his number should be retired.

 

[Bazeek]

The fact that you have "retiring" "Parise's" and "number" consecutively in a sentence in an unironic way is a cardinal sin.

Yeah, I'm burning some incense to get rid of the smell.