Player Discussion Mikko Koivu (Part II)

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TaLoN

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It’s going to be an absolutely awful look when 9, 11, and 20 are all hanging in the rafter next to the MNWild fans flag
Only 1 of those even has a shot in the first place.

You guys assume it sets a mark based on the stat sheet, what I'm saying is the stat sheet doesn't even come close to the mark he has left on the franchise.

Suter, Parise... zero chance IMO.
 

MuckOG

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Only 1 of those even has a shot in the first place.

You guys assume it sets a mark based on the stat sheet, what I'm saying is the stat sheet doesn't even come close to the mark he has left on the franchise.

Suter, Parise... zero chance IMO.

What mark did Koivu leave on this franchise? The Wild have only made it past the 1st round in the playoffs twice since he's been here.

Sure, he's been a fan favorite, but that's only because we haven't had many other options who could fill that role of fan favorite.
 

thestonedkoala

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What mark did Koivu leave on this franchise? The Wild have only made it past the 1st round in the playoffs twice since he's been here.

Why is it when I bring up these points I'm dismissed. When you bring them up, they are legitimate questions?
 

AKL

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Only 1 of those even has a shot in the first place.

You guys assume it sets a mark based on the stat sheet, what I'm saying is the stat sheet doesn't even come close to the mark he has left on the franchise.

Suter, Parise... zero chance IMO.

He hasn't really left that big a mark on the franchise. He's never been past the second round in the playoffs, he hasn't won any individual awards. He hasn't even been honored or awarded for humanitarian efforts in the area.

He spent his whole career with us and he was captain for a long time. That's not worth retiring a jersey.

If this was a 40-50 year old franchise, this wouldn't even be a discussion. There would be no question that his jersey doesn't get retired. He doesn't get that honor just because of circumstance.
 

DemidovSaveUs

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Only 1 of those even has a shot in the first place.

You guys assume it sets a mark based on the stat sheet, what I'm saying is the stat sheet doesn't even come close to the mark he has left on the franchise.

Suter, Parise... zero chance IMO.
If Suter and Parise play their full contracts here I have no confidence in Leopold’s ability to not retire those numbers. Even Lapanta was talking about it on the last podcast.
 

TaLoN

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What mark did Koivu leave on this franchise? The Wild have only made it past the 1st round in the playoffs twice since he's been here.

Sure, he's been a fan favorite, but that's only because we haven't had many other options who could fill that role of fan favorite.
First true captain, face of the franchise, consummate professional.

You keep going back to the stat sheet with playoff games etc.

Even bad teams that don't make the playoffs much have players that elevate themselves within the franchise. Look at Arizona and Shane Doan
 
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Bazeek

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If Suter and Parise play their full contracts here I have no confidence in Leopold’s ability to not retire those numbers. Even Lapanta was talking about it on the last podcast.
Sometimes while listening to him I feel like Lapanta has brainwashed himself into genuinely adoring everything about this team. The Wild PBP job should come with hazard pay.
 

HotDish

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Aug 17, 2020
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It’s going to be an absolutely awful look when 9, 11, and 20 are all hanging in the rafter next to the MNWild fans flag
How dare you miss the most important number retired.:sarcasm:

upload_2020-9-18_11-40-34.png
 

TaLoN

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If Suter and Parise play their full contracts here I have no confidence in Leopold’s ability to not retire those numbers. Even Lapanta was talking about it on the last podcast.
That to me would lessen the meaning more than anything. Koivu has meaning here, Zach and Ryan came in as mercenaries and played well for a time (Suter still is), but also seemed to bring in some locker room conflict from time to time as well.

I'd want neither in the rafters with how things have gone to this point.
 
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AKL

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First true captain, face of the franchise, consummate professional.

You keep going back to the stat sheet with playoff games etc.

Even bad teams that don't make the playoffs much have players that elevate themselves within the franchise. Look at Arizona and Shane Doan

This just isn't good enough. This is more a testament to our naivete as a franchise and the circumstance that he happened to fall into than it is about Koivu meriting jersey retirement.
 

MuckOG

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First true captain, face of the franchise, consummate professional.

That's all fine and good. But I think you need more than just those three qualities to be worthy of a jersey retirement.

You keep going back to the stat sheet with playoff games etc.

Even bad teams that don't make the playoffs much have players that elevate themselves within the franchise. Look at Arizona and Shane Doan

Because that's ultimately what players and franchises are evaluated by.

Shane Doan has played 500 games more than Koivu and scored 200 goals more than him. On top of that he has some regular season awards as well. Their playoff production is nearly identical.
 

TaLoN

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This just isn't good enough. This is more a testament to our naivete as a franchise and the circumstance that he happened to fall into than it is about Koivu meriting jersey retirement.
I disagree. Koivu wouldn't be the first, nor the last of his "caliber" of player to have his jersey retired due to impact beyond just the stat sheet, and it has never seemed to open the flood gates for others who just happen to have similar stats.

Players like Koivu and the impact he's had here are pretty rare.
 
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AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
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That's all fine and good. But I think you need more than just those three qualities to be worthy of a jersey retirement.



Because that's ultimately what players and franchises are judged on.

Shane Doan has played 500 games more than Koivu and scored 200 goals more than him. On top of that he has some regular season awards as well. Their playoff production is nearly identical.

Shane Doan won the Clancy once and the Messier once. If Koivu had won those I would be down to retire his jersey because that shows he had an impact. As it is, he's never come close to winning those.
 

MuckOG

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I disagree. Koivu wouldn't be the first, nor the last of his "caliber" of player to have his jersey retired due to impact beyond just the stat sheet, and it has never seemed to open the flood gates for others who just happen to have similar stats.

Players like Koivu and the impact he's had here are pretty rare.

Not trying to be a ****......but what impact has he had? Certainly not any sort of individual or team success.
 

AKL

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I disagree. Koivu wouldn't be the first, nor the last of his "caliber" of player to have his jersey retired due to impact beyond just the stat sheet, and it had never seemed to open the flood gates for others who just happen to have similar stats.

Players like Koivu and the impact he's had here are pretty rare.

I disagree with the impact you think he's had beyond the stat sheet. Being named the first captain and being a fan favorite is not an impact. Impact is making a difference, having success.
Like I've said, if Koivu had won a Clancy for humanitarian work like Linden and Doan, Messier award for leadership like Doan, then it's a different conversation.
His only impact is being the first captain, and that's not enough.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Start a Minnesta Wild Ring of Honor/Hall of Fame.

Make Koivu the first inductee and make a HUGE deal about it.

Please don't open up the possibility that we miss out on a key player because he's attached to the number 9 (hockey players are weird sometimes) and we made it off-limits because a guy we drafted early on didn't leave, made the 2nd round a couple of times, and had a Selke nomination.
 

Caior89

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I fail to see how it is a requirement to be a huge star or a champion for a team to get his jersey retired. Koivu was the face of your franchise for the majority of your existence, your first captain. Most games played for your team. If that does not get your jersey retired then I'm sorry, your NA sports culture is a JOKE. No wonder you have so little tradition in sports compared to Europe when you have fans with this attitude.

This, there is more about just putting numbers. For years Koivu was the face of this franchise, for good or for the bad. He as done a lot for this organization in every possible way you can think, offense/defense, leadership, selling jerseys, staff treatment, media exposition, charity and social works and many other things that we have no idea how to measure. It could be better, of course it could, but that's what we had, how our history was written. Most important thing that ppl seen to forget, he did bring a lot of pleasure to watch this sport and for this team, even with all the mediocrity, failure and the bad cast of player support. Sports and entertainment is not only about winning the cup and ending it, it's about your everyday game and the good stuff that comes through it to bring some joy in our lives.
 
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TaLoN

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Shane Doan has played 500 games more than Koivu and scored 200 goals more than him. On top of that he has some regular season awards as well. Their playoff production is nearly identical.
500 more games, yet Koivu has only 200 some fewer points. Both with 500 since assists. Koivu produced a bit higher again in points per game.

My point is, Koivu has had every bit the meaning to the Wild that Shane Doan and Trevor Linden have had for the Coyotes and the Canucks. That level of connection for players that are not likely for the HoF isn't common. It's rare, and it should be applauded and generally results in jersey retirement.

It's the same connection that would've had Broten's number in our rafters instead of in Dallas. His number was retired there for the impact on the franchise while they were here.
 
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AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
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Start a Minnesta Wild Ring of Honor/Hall of Fame.

Make Koivu the first inductee and make a HUGE deal about it.

Please don't open up the possibility that we miss out on a key player because he's attached to the number 9 (hockey players are weird sometimes) and we made it off-limits because a guy we drafted early on didn't leave, made the 2nd round a couple of times, and had a Selke nomination.

This is what the Islanders do, probably other teams as well. It's an excellent compromise.

I don't know, you look at the list of guys with their numbers retired across the league, most of them all hall of famers.

Guys like Nick Lidstrom, Joe Sakic, Ron Francis just to name a few. Koivu doesn't belong with these names.
 

AKL

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It's impact beyond tangibles. You want a measurement, but the impact isn't strictly measurable, it's "felt" so to speak.

But that impact clearly isn't felt by everyone, as it seems a majority of people in this thread don't agree his number should be retired.
 
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