Mike Babcock

[The Winter Soldier]

It's amazing how your opinion changes about Toronto if it looks like some Leafs fans want Babcock fired. In the past you have bashed him for not making out of the 1st round since 2013 and have said how much better a coach Barry Trotz is. The way you are talking about how great Babcock is sounds like how you talked up Mark Hunter after he decided to quit his job with the Maple Leafs and I wonder what the reason for that is?

Let's not forget this poll you created last June asking who is better between Babcock and Trotz, which also included Dubas and Lamoriello.

Lamoriello/Trotz vs Dubas/Babcock

Not sure why bumping a poll from the summer is relevant to this Babcock discussion thread after The Leafs were eliminated in the 1st rd for a 3rd straight time. Are you going off topic again?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Not sure why bumping a poll from the summer is relevant to this Babcock discussion thread after The Leafs were eliminated in the 1st rd for a 3rd straight time. Are you going off topic again?

I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy about Babcock because if he did get fired and hired by another NHL team your opinion about him would change instantly. We saw it when Lamoriello was hired by the Islanders since you called him a dinosaur when he was the Leafs GM and how much you started to like Mark Hunter when he quit his job with Toronto, which lead you to create the Mark Hunter job search watch thread when he could have been hired by any NHL team.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy about Babcock because if he did get fired and hired by another NHL team your opinion about him would change instantly. We saw it when Lamoriello was hired by the Islanders since you called him a dinosaur when he was the Leafs GM and how much you started to like Mark Hunter when he quit his job with Toronto, which lead you to create the Mark Hunter job search watch thread when he could have been hired by any NHL team.

Babcock is not fired, and you are already making up imaginary narratives? As a fan of the Leafs. You should concern yourself with another 1st rd exit. Not what others think about Babcock.

Nope, always said Babcock was a good coach. A very good one in fact, but I also pointed out he has only won 1 cup in his coaching career so he is not as good as his salary indicates.

Shanahan signed him to 8 years at 6.25 for 50M. He will have to wear this, if he is fired. This is the topic incase you forgot.

 

[CartographerNo611]

He's overrated too...Nolan's teams looked good because of Hasek.

Overrated, cheaper, and would get the same results. Already better than Babs lol.

 

[DanM]

I think the point missing here is Shanahan is going to have to do some explaining here. Throwing away 25M and deciding to fire Babcock when he was the one that made a case to the Board to hire him for 8 years at 6.25M per with 4 years left will require a masterpiece misdirection presentation of how he messed this up.

I do know one thing. Had Lou been extended, another Shanahan decision. I doubt there would be a disconnect of GM and Coach as there is now. The board will probably re- visit this too. So I would not want to be too sure, to pass this off as the Board will just sign a blank cheque and not weigh the circumstances that brought them to this point.

Retaining Lou would have been the worst thing, because him and Babs would be on the same page, and I don't believe Babs is the best coach for this team going foward.

Dubas is green, but he is SUPER bright, and will be a stud. I have every bit of confidence in him, and the people around him, and I am happy with the drafts we have had, and it will only get better. Players like Patty and Zeitsev were Lou contracts, and they can hinder teams (but I have to admit Zeitsev was much better the last few weeks of the season and playoffs)

Sure, Shanny would have explaining to do, but I bet it would do nothing to endanger his standing, and we can swallow the money.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Retaining Lou would have been the worst thing, because him and Babs would be on the same page, and I don't believe Babs is the best coach for this team going foward.

Dubas is green, but he is SUPER bright, and will be a stud. I have every bit of confidence in him, and the people around him, and I am happy with the drafts we have had, and it will only get better. Players like Patty and Zeitsev were Lou contracts, and they can hinder teams (but I have to admit Zeitsev was much better the last few weeks of the season and playoffs)

Sure, Shanny would have explaining to do, but I bet it would do nothing to endanger his standing, and we can swallow the money.

I bet Lou re-signing Roman Polak during the start of last season is something Babcock wanted to see happen and I remember a lot of Leafs fans said why would Lou even bring him back?

 

[DanM]

Does someone else 100% make them a cup finals team? They don’t just knee jerk react and make it to finals because people are looking for someone to blame.
The 11 million dollar super star was a no show, the guy that carried them all year and was the teams top scorer was a no show, the goalie fell apart and blew chunks in game 7 and the GM never addressed the hole they had in the D.
Silly Willy also had a bad year, there is plenty of things that held the team back and all must be weighed before anyone flushes any type of money down the toilet.

I was literally only talking about Babcock and his contract cost outside the cap.

Matty was actually great this playoffs, Anderson was fine and can only do so much, we gave him zero support in game 7, and JT was dealing with the top line of Boston (but yes he could have scored more)

Willy just never got his game going, and for sure it was all the time missing. He was also thrust into the C role in the middle of a series against the Bruins, not the best time.

I don't believe this team will always be this way, players will get better, drafts will happen, players will get developed, and the cap will only increase.

It will be fine.

 

[DanM]

I bet Lou re-signing Roman Polak during the start of last season is something Babcock wanted to see happen and I remember a lot of Leafs fans said why would Lou even bring him back?

Yep

Lou would not been the right choice.

I will laugh so damn hard when the cap keeps increasing, and the next wave of players sign for way more than ours, I bet Dubas and his people have forecasted this.

Would I have liked to see a bit better cost control, sure, but I also think the game is getter stronger, and the cap will as well.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yep

Lou would not been the right choice.

I will laugh so damn hard when the cap keeps increasing, and the next wave of players sign for way more than ours, I bet Dubas and his people have forecasted this.

Would I have liked to see a bit better cost control, sure, but I also think the game is getter stronger, and the cap will as well.

Even if Shanahan decided to extend Lamoriello as the GM or give the job to Mark Hunter instead, I guarantee there would be others who said how could they let Dubas get away and become the GM of another team. Let's not forget how it was reported the Coyotes, Sabres, Avalanche and I think the Hurricanes wanted to interview him to become their GM, where as with Mark Hunter not once was his name brought up among other teams to become a GM when he worked in Toronto.

 

[DanM]

These post mortums are always interesting. If Andersen could stop a beach ball or the Knights PK had any kind of pulse a different tune would sung.

This whole Anderson hate is misplaced.

He actually played well this series, he gave our team many chances to either go up to 3-1 or win the series, and our team didn't give him enough run support, but we outplayed the Bruins for most of the series.

But, when our D made mistakes, we paid, and when special teams let us down, we paid.

But Andy gave us plenty of time to win.

 

[LeafsNation75]

This whole Anderson hate is misplaced.

He actually played well this series, he gave our team many chances to either go up to 3-1 or win the series, and our team didn't give him enough run support, but we outplayed the Bruins for most of the series.

But, when our D made mistakes, we paid, and when special teams let us down, we paid.

But Andy gave us plenty of time to win.

I guess for some people it's easy to bash Andersen because of the first goal he allowed last night, which was a bad goal no matter how you look at it. However he's not the reason they lost the series.

 

[DanM]

Even if Shanahan decided to extend Lamoriello as the GM or give the job to Mark Hunter instead, I guarantee there would be others who said how could they let Dubas get away and become the GM of another team. Let's not forget how it was reported the Coyotes, Sabres, Avalanche and I think the Hurricanes wanted to interview him to become their GM, where as with Mark Hunter not once was his name brought up among other teams to become a GM when he worked in Toronto.

Dubas was just fine, this was prob the hardest negotiation period he could have went through, with a whole new breed of RFA's who are changing the pay landscape.

His moves overall have been more than fine, we have a good farm system, and another 50 million invested in new scouting and analytics. He his a very bright young GM,

He will continue to be a very bright GM and keep gaining experience.

 

[DanM]

I guess for some people it's easy to bash Andersen because of the first goal he allowed last night, which was a bad goal no matter how you look at it. However he's not the reason they lost the series.

Agreed, game 7 has not been his friend, but have played overall very very well.

It's not that people find it easy, people are just ignorant.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Dubas was just fine, this was prob the hardest negotiation period he could have went through, with a whole new breed of RFA's who are changing the pay landscape.

His moves overall have been more than fine, we have a good farm system, and another 50 million invested in new scouting and analytics. He his a very bright young GM,

He will continue to be a very bright GM and keep gaining experience.

I completely agree and I'm sure he learned a lot from the Nylander contract to know what things to do with Marner so he can re-sign him before July 1, 2019 and this way he never becomes an RFA.

 

[DanM]

I completely agree and I'm sure he learned a lot from the Nylander contract to know what things to do with Marner so he can re-sign him before July 1, 2019 and this way he never becomes an RFA.

Agreed

When we keep churning out gems in the draft, and Dubas keeps gaining experience, people on here will be eating so much crow, and I will laugh all day long.

 

[biotk]

The MLSE Board will want reasons. And why Shanahan is now basically admitting it was a mistake signing. I am not sure how he will sell that to the Board.

He could show them the playoff games over the past two season where Babcock has been completely outcoached and made stupid decision after stupid decision. The money arguments make zero sense. Sunk costs are sunk costs whether or not you keep the terrible coach and in doing so reduce your chances of winning to zero.

 

[biotk]

I completely agree and I'm sure he learned a lot from the Nylander contract to know what things to do with Marner so he can re-sign him before July 1, 2019 and this way he never becomes an RFA.

If it was possible to have signed Nylander to a better contract and to have done so earlier then Lou would have done so. Lou had a lot more time to sign Nylander than Dubas had and Lou got nowhere with him.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Agreed

When we keep churning out gems in the draft, and Dubas keeps gaining experience, people on here will be eating so much crow, and I will laugh all day long.

The one thing Dubas did which surprised others was when he traded their 1st round pick in 2019 for Jake Muzzin. Everyone assumed he liked to keep 1st round picks the way he traded down at the 2015 draft when they had an additional 1st round selection and he did the same thing in 2018 when he traded down and still selected Rasmus Sandin.

1 Year earlier prior to the 2018 trade deadline some Leafs fans were upset that Lamoriello did not at least trade their 1st round pick in 2018 to the Rangers for Ryan McDonagh.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If it was possible to have signed Nylander to a better contract and to have done so earlier then Lou would have done so. Lou had a lot more time to sign Nylander than Dubas had and Lou got nowhere with him.

That's correct because Nylander was eligible to sign a contract extension starting on July 1, 2017 and Lou never got that done, despite this notion that no one tells him no.

 

[DanM]

That's correct because Nylander was eligible to sign a contract extension starting on July 1, 2017 and Lou never got that done, despite this notion that no one tells him no.

Posters are just ignorant, they seem to think paying stars this much is a "LEAF" problem, when in fact this is a new pay RFA landscape.

I will laugh when their own teams are bent over the barrel, pants down, with no lube.

They will see

 

[LeafsNation75]

Posters are just ignorant, they seem to think paying stars this much is a "LEAF" problem, when in fact this is a new pay RFA landscape.

I will laugh when their own teams are bent over the barrel, pants down, with no lube.

They will see

Exactly because what are other non Leaf RFA's such as Rantanen, Laine, Connor, Trouba and Point going to want on their next contracts?

 

[DanM]

Exactly because what are other non Leaf RFA's such as Rantanen, Laine, Connor, Trouba and Point going to want on their next contracts?

Only discounts

Players not on the Leafs like to take discounts LOL

Give me a break

 

[LeafsNation75]

Only discounts

Players not on the Leafs like to take discounts LOL

Give me a break

Yeah because it seems the Leafs have different rules for re-signing their RFA's and other teams won't have any problems.

 

[DanM]

Yeah because it seems the Leafs have different rules for re-signing their RFA's and other teams won't have any problems.

Yep, their players don't want to be paid a lot, only us.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yep, their players don't want to be paid a lot, only us.

Now that Steve Yzerman is no longer the Tampa Bay GM, let's see if Julien BriseBois can talk Brayden Point to accept less than Kucherov or because of the no state tax in Florida, which Yzerman used with their other players.

At least the no state tax advantage is one less thing Yzerman has now that he's the Red Wings GM, lol.