Mike Babcock discussion part 3.

[as Pure as Evil]

Ceci was the cost of dumping Zaitsev. AND let's not forget we got Harpur

No matter how you cut it 1 year of ceci will always be a hell of a lot better the 5 years of watching zatz powder the puck around for icing every other shift

Back to Babcock.

I think with him its just his system has been systematically picked apart and the world adjusted and adaptes over the last 15 years .

Not just in the nhl but in the world of hockey . What he did in those years was remarkable hell making the wings get to the playoffs over the last 5 years with him at the helm was a feet as well.

The world adapted to his coaching style and he has yet to evolve his system

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Rielly and Ceci are terrible. They aren’t better than Rielly Hainsey. We haven’t felt this level of defensive insecurity from a top pair for a number of years dating back to the Carlyle era now for the ineptitude of that duo. And I’m a huge Rielly fan.

2018-2019 (5v5 Rielly Hainsey):
Rielly: 65 CA/60 (7.40 CA/60 Rel), 2.72 GA/60 (0.30 Relative), 2.80 xGA/60 (0.5 Relative), 12.7 HDCA/60 (2.94 Relative)
Hainsey: 65 CA/60 (7.40 CA/60 Rel), 2.56 GA/60 (0.13 Relative), 2.71 xGA/60 (0.38 Relative), 12.7 HDCA/60 (2.38 Relative)

2019-2020 (5v5 Rielly Ceci):
Rielly: 59 CA/60 (5.90 CA/60 Rel), 3.05 GA/60 (0.35 Relative), 2.14 xGA/60 (-0.13 Relative), 9.8 HDCA/60 (-1.02 Relative)
Ceci: 58 CA/60 (4.20 CA/60 Rel), 2.29 GA/60 (-0.86 Relative), 2.16 xGA/60 (-0.10 Relative), 9.7 HDCA/60 (-1.28 Relative)

I remember last year hating the Rielly-Hainsey pairing, even while a lot on here loved them. IMO the Tavares line was dominant and covered up their mistakes a LOT (That Tavares line was just a tier below the Bergeron and MacKinnon line last year). This year they're nowhere to be found, and Rielly-xxx find themselves exposed.

I don't like Ceci. He shouldn't be anywhere near a top-pairing IMO, but there's no questioning he's done a much better job than Hainsey did. This is without being paired to a dominant 1st line either. We can agree to disagree on this I guess ... till the Tavares line turns it around and we see how clearly better the Rielly-Ceci looks

 

[hector morrison]

This is tin-foil hat, black helicopter flying over my house quality stuff.

So,you don't think teams play differently with the lead? Or ,just not the Leafs? Cause they do...really obvious even.

 

[crump]

What would it take for Babcock to be fired at this point? A 5 game losing streak? Out of the playoff at the Christmas break? or if they make the playoffs a 1st or second, third round exit?

 

[Teeder Keon]

What every one else said at one time or another is true to some extent
He just needs to go , it’s time !

 

[Mess]

Maybe down the line Dubas should get fired, but before Babcock? That would be lunacy. Babcock should be able to piece something together with the talent he has, even if let's say one pairing isn't perfect. Or one line is still iffy. He should still be able to make something out of it. Does he need 20 of the perfect players handed to him on a silver platter for it work? If that's the case, he's not a good coach.

Babcock has delivered at such a high level of success for so long that the fans seems to have become immune to his achievements as ordinary and expected.

I think people forget that Babcock has delivered 3 straight playoff season and 100 point team finishes on average (95, 105 and 100 points).. With something that people neglect is that only a handful of NHL teams each year finish above a Mike Babcock coach/lead team with more points in the regular season. 100 points over 82 games is a .610 points % rate.

The 1st year he took a Leafs team that was rock bottom 30th overall after just drafting Matthews #1OA as a result, to a playoff birth against Washington the very next year which was a +26 improvement in the standings. He was runner up to the Jack Adams as best coach of the year nomination for those accomplishments.

In 2017-18 he coached the Leafs to an all-time 100 year franchise record 105 points and a new record 49 wins in a season just 1 and 1/2 years ago. No Leafs coach in 100 years has ever done that previously and this is done in a cap era where a salary cap guarantees parity in the league, unlike previously when money was not limiting rosters decisions.

He hasn't had perfect players to deliver playoff births year after year, far from it. Just look at all the recent players that fans have wanted run out of town as being far from perfect and far too many to mention by name, but still despite that Babcock coached what was provided warts an all to the playoffs.

He is now 7th all time in NHL coaching wins and he is the only coach to hold the triple crown of NHL Stanley Cup , Olympic Gold and World Hockey Champion Gold leading his teams to championships and that doesn't even include World Cup winner and WJC gold championships..

Babcock wins at all levels and is asked to lead Canada's team because he is considered the best man for the job and he delivered on those beliefs.

People that believe he doesn't know how to coach and win seem to have formed opinions that the facts in evidence simply don't support and in fact outright contradict as false.

 

[Fogelhund]

I disagree with your Hainsey points (Hainsey was especially bad in the last half of the season).

But I do agree the search for a partner for Rielly has been going on forever. I like that dubas has addressed the D by going after Muzzin, Barrie, Ceci. But we need a long-term stable partner for Rielly. Tanev is a UFA this season but he's getting older and is injury prone.

Yes, I'm not sure Tanev is someone you can rely on... but it was talked about a lot, what three, four years ago, as someone we should target... I'm just saying that RHD Defensive rock, has been a need forever, and neither Lou, nor Dubas has delivered it, as of yet.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Yes, I'm not sure Tanev is someone you can rely on... but it was talked about a lot, what three, four years ago, as someone we should target... I'm just saying that RHD Defensive rock, has been a need forever, and neither Lou, nor Dubas has delivered it, as of yet.

Yup agreed. But I do give credit to Dubas for being the most active on helping the D out (Muzzin, Barrie, Ceci, developing Dermott and Holl in the AHL).

I really wanted Colin Miller (signed for 3.8 million at 4 years) but oh well. We'll see how the season progresses.

 

[666]

How do you know the President or GM that have never coached a single game know more about winning and coaching than the coach that is 7th NHL ALL-time in wins with 700?

Are you aware that Babcock has a losing record in the playoffs going back 11 years? He is 47 wins 50 loses in the last 11 years. He's .432 in playoffs over the last 10 years.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Not sure where to put this but we need to get more movement on the PP. Florida had a similar setup as us last year but all 5 guys were moving all the time. Seems like we stand still way too much. watch the video and you'll see.

 

[DopeyFish]

Babcock has delivered at such a high level of success for so long that the fans seems to have become immune to his achievements as ordinary and expected.

I think people forget that Babcock has delivered 3 straight playoff season and 100 point team finishes on average (95, 105 and 100 points).. With something that people neglect is that only a handful of NHL teams each year finish above a Mike Babcock coach/lead team with more points in the regular season. 100 points over 82 games is a .610 points % rate.

The 1st year he took a Leafs team that was rock bottom 30th overall after just drafting Matthews #1OA as a result, to a playoff birth against Washington the very next year which was a +26 improvement in the standings. He was runner up to the Jack Adams as best coach of the year nomination for those accomplishments.

In 2017-18 he coached the Leafs to an all-time 100 year franchise record 105 points and a new record 49 wins in a season just 1 and 1/2 years ago. No Leafs coach in 100 years has ever done that previously and this is done in a cap era where a salary cap guarantees parity in the league, unlike previously when money was not limiting rosters decisions.

He hasn't had perfect players to deliver playoff births year after year, far from it. Just look at all the recent players that fans have wanted run out of town as being far from perfect and far too many to mention by name, but still despite that Babcock coached what was provided warts an all to the playoffs.

He is now 7th all time in NHL coaching wins and he is the only coach to hold the triple crown of NHL Stanley Cup , Olympic Gold and World Hockey Champion Gold leading his teams to championships and that doesn't even include World Cup winner and WJC gold championships..

Babcock wins at all levels and is asked to lead Canada's team because he is considered the best man for the job and he delivered on those beliefs.

People that believe he doesn't know how to coach and win seem to have formed opinions that the facts in evidence simply don't support and in fact outright contradict as false.

Is this satire?

I can't read it without laughing

 

[stickty111]

Carlyle got a lot of criticism which is accurate, but one thing he didn't do is make his team play a different style they weren't capable of. It was run and gun. The problem is that team wasn't talented enough to play that all skill game.
This team is skilled enough.
Ask yourselves, is Babcock an upgrade on Carlyle? In terms of culture yes, but in game adjustments, nope.

 

[IPS]

Carlyle got a lot of criticism which is accurate, but one thing he didn't do is make his team play a different style they weren't capable of. It was run and gun. The problem is that team wasn't talented enough to play that all skill game.
This team is skilled enough.
Ask yourselves, is Babcock an upgrade on Carlyle? In terms of culture yes, but in game adjustments, nope.

By all acounts, no he's not.

Believe it or not Caryle got that garbage 2013 team closer to beating Boston (a better Boston team at that) than Babock has with the current squad.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

By all acounts, no he's not.

Believe it or not Caryle got that garbage 2013 team closer to beating Boston (a better Boston team at that) than Babock has with the current squad.

Carlyle actually played his stars to a fault almost. I would almost welcome him back at this point.

 

[Ashdown2]

Well, you were watching Rielly - Hainsey play with one of the top elite lines in the league. This year you're seeing Rielly - Ceci play with a 3rd/4th line caliber line (Tavares line has struggled that bad). So sorry if I don't trust your eyes

i dont understand this post ...... your saying reilly ceci only suck because they play with tavares ?
defenders usually play with all forward lines so are you blaming tavares when he isnt even on the ice or in the press box because he missed 9 games ? ?

 

[Lightsol]

At the trade deadline last year the coach requests some size, & grit to play a bigger heavy game, as well as 4th line veteran centre good on FO/PK and depth on defense to be successful in the playoffs on his wish list and Dubas goes out and gets him Nic Petan that sits the entire playoffs in the pressbox almost to spite the coaches wishes.

Now Petan who has been waived unclaimed through the NHL 2 X already this past month and Babcock made a healthy scratch this year is the player he gets to help replace Marner, and along with Spezza another player that Babs can see is on his last legs and a healthy scratch, but GM insists be used in a 4th line checking role.

I guess you wish that Dubas would do what Babcock has been insisting on every f***ing trade deadline for the past few years and give up assets for f***ing Luke Glendening so Babcock can play HIM 30 minutes a game...

 

[LeafingTheWay]

i dont understand this post ...... your saying reilly ceci only suck because they play with tavares ?
defenders usually play with all forward lines so are you blaming tavares when he isnt even on the ice or in the press box because he missed 9 games ? ?

Let me explain it more clearly:

The Rielly line pairing has always been matched up with our top defensive line Hyman - Tavares - Marner. Defensemen play with all lines, but there's always one line they play the majority of the game with. You can check out the WOWYS stats if you want as well to confirm this. So for example, when Rielly-xxx are on the ice to face-off with the Bergeron line, the Hyman - Tavares - Marner line is always on with them.

Last year, the Hyman - Tavares - Marner line was absolutely dominant offensively and defensively. This helped cover a lot of the Rielly-Hainsey issues.

This year, Rielly-Ceci have no-one to be matched up with. They've been paired with Kapanen-Tavares-Marner and other combinations, including the ones without Tavares. Tavares-Marner have also struggled massively at 5v5 (at a 4th line rate this season). There is no-one to cover the Rielly-Ceci defensive gaps.

It's very easy to defend when you're paired with a line that has possession literally all the time.

 

[Ashdown2]

Let me explain it more clearly:

The Rielly line pairing has always been matched up with our top defensive line Hyman - Tavares - Marner. Defensemen play with all lines, but there's always one line they play the majority of the game with. You can check out the WOWYS stats if you want as well to confirm this. So for example, when Rielly-xxx are on the ice to face-off with the Bergeron line, the Hyman - Tavares - Marner line is always on with them.

Last year, the Hyman - Tavares - Marner line was absolutely dominant offensively and defensively. This helped cover a lot of the Rielly-Hainsey issues.

This year, Rielly-Ceci have no-one to be matched up with. They've been paired with Kapanen-Tavares-Marner and other combinations, including the ones without Tavares. Tavares-Marner have also struggled massively at 5v5 (at a 4th line rate this season). There is no-one to cover the Rielly-Ceci defensive gaps.

It's very easy to defend when you're paired with a line that has possession literally all the time.

right the chicken or the egg ... does the defense suck because the forwards suck or is the defense good because the forwards are good.
either way thats a stupid argument , i think ill blame the partner that plays 95% with reilly and not the forwards who might play 50% with him.

Ceci has been a goddamn joke out there on a nightly basis. Yes i would rather have hainsey. I would rather have my eyes because im not sure who your watching out there.


here watch this , might be my favorite dangle moment of the season .

go to 2:20

 

[LeafingTheWay]

right the chicken or the egg ... does the defense suck because the forwards suck or is the defense good because the forwards are good.
either way thats a stupid argument , i think ill blame the partner that plays 95% with reilly and not the forwards who might play 50% with him.

Ceci has been a goddamn joke out there on a nightly basis. Yes i would rather have hainsey. I would rather have my eyes because im not sure who your watching out there.


here watch this , might be my favorite dangle moment of the season .

go to 2:20

You don't think Rielly-Hainsey did that last year!? Recency bias at its finest.

Stop for a second and think about what I said lol. Rielly-xxx plays against the other team's top lines probably 60% of his time on the ice. Rielly-xxx is paired with our team's matchup line 60% of the time on the ice. If you watch carefully, you'll see that Rielly-xxx don't struggle against non-top lines (I.e the 40% of their time on the ice). They struggle the 60% of the time against the other team's top line.

 

[stickty111]

Change up the assistant coaches, and the special teams are still bad, the head coach has remained the same. It might be him.

 

[shaner8989]

Just fire this f***ing loser already

Or keep him and tank

Win-win

 

[stickty111]

 

[stickty111]

 

[34]

Are the Leafs tanking this season? Looks like an intentional tank.

 

[Mats13]

Can we fire him now? Or are we going to wait until he’s cost us the season?