Michigan Sports Thread 2018-2019

[Konnan511]

Trying to get some team to trade up and give them all the picks?

 

[Konnan511]

Dude is going to be a stud:

 

[Winger98]

Dude is going to be a stud:

And hopefully the Tigers add another big bat in the next draft. The Tigers have been hard to watch, but there's finally some hope coming up through the system.

 

[Bondurant]

Trying to get some team to trade up and give them all the picks?

Anything is possible. If the source was local I'd give it more thought. With almost zero chance at Chase Young trading down makes sense. Stafford's back is key. If there's doubt in Allen Park about his health then it wouldn't shock if they drafted a QB. Problem is the anticipated pick, Tua, also has injury issues.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

More eager than on the Tigers.

I think the real question is if someone will give enough incentives to take on a bad contract. Unless we're getting a first or a really good prospect, I'm not sure it's worth helping another team that much.

The 100m tigers that are losing plenty of money? Less is spent on the wings and theyre making a profit.

Not trying to start a debate or argument here. But your ignorant comment wasnt needed.

It's worth being patient, after this season the only big money commitment is miggy. About 50m in dead money comes off the books. If they dont spend after 2020, I agree with you.

 

[Winger98]

The 100m tigers that are losing plenty of money? Less is spent on the wings and theyre making a profit.

Not trying to start a debate or argument here. But your ignorant comment wasnt needed.

It's worth being patient, after this season the only big money commitment is miggy. About 50m in dead money comes off the books. If they dont spend after 2020, I agree with you.

From this Detroit News Article:

With a team payroll estimated to be about half of the $200 million it spent in 2016, it's even possible the Tigers are more profitable today than they were when fans packed the seats in a playoff run.

The Tigers pull down $34.5m (after revenue sharing is taken out) a year just from their FSD contract. I'm trying to find a number for what they get as a share of national broadcast rights. And they have started qualifying to receive revenue sharing from the league. In 2018, their player payroll was covered before they sold a single season ticket because of various TV deals and revenue sharing.

This is a Tigers team that has also seen its value climb to $1.3 billion. For a comparison, the Wings are valued at $800 million.

Go back through this and other Michigan Sports threads and you will see me defending the Tigers and how they have operated. But the very minor signings Avila has made this year has been a big departure from how tight the Tigers have been holding the purse strings the past few years. And these are signings only meant to help the rebuild by acquiring assets to likely deal off at the TDL. Assets that should help shorten the rebuild.

I'm not against building through the draft, restocking the farm system, etc. And I've defended Avila a lot. But not spending on just competent, legit ball players is not something being driven by the Tigers hemorrhaging money. Could they have turned as big of a profit in 2018 or 2019 if they had made similar signings as they did this winter? Maybe not, but maybe their ticket sales wouldn't have fallen as hard if the team wasn't a total disaster. And maybe they could have made more deals to bring in more prospects from other systems.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

From this Detroit News Article:



The Tigers pull down $34.5m (after revenue sharing is taken out) a year just from their FSD contract. I'm trying to find a number for what they get as a share of national broadcast rights. And they have started qualifying to receive revenue sharing from the league. In 2018, their player payroll was covered before they sold a single season ticket because of various TV deals and revenue sharing.

This is a Tigers team that has also seen its value climb to $1.3 billion. For a comparison, the Wings are valued at $800 million.

Go back through this and other Michigan Sports threads and you will see me defending the Tigers and how they have operated. But the very minor signings Avila has made this year has been a big departure from how tight the Tigers have been holding the purse strings the past few years. And these are signings only meant to help the rebuild by acquiring assets to likely deal off at the TDL. Assets that should help shorten the rebuild.

I'm not against building through the draft, restocking the farm system, etc. And I've defended Avila a lot. But not spending on just competent, legit ball players is not something being driven by the Tigers hemorrhaging money. Could they have turned as big of a profit in 2018 or 2019 if they had made similar signings as they did this winter? Maybe not, but maybe their ticket sales wouldn't have fallen as hard if the team wasn't a total disaster. And maybe they could have made more deals to bring in more prospects from other systems.

Again....

Forbes: Tigers ran $46 million loss last season while franchise growth has slowed

The FACT they're losing money, is why they're cutting payroll to dump their crap contracts. Now once theyre gone if they refuse to pay up I'll agree with you. But they're a mid market team which means when they're attendance rises(with success obviously) they can break even with about 130-150m payroll.

But they needed a major transition after losing 50m a year for multiple years. It's sort of common sense that you cant run a business in the negative. Hopefully you understand that.

Also from 2008-2018 they ran in the red for 7 of the 10 seasons.

 

[Winger98]

Again....

Forbes: Tigers ran $46 million loss last season while franchise growth has slowed

The FACT they're losing money, is why they're cutting payroll to dump their crap contracts. Now once theyre gone if they refuse to pay up I'll agree with you. But they're a mid market team which means when they're attendance rises(with success obviously) they can break even with about 130-150m payroll.

But they needed a major transition after losing 50m a year for multiple years. It's sort of common sense that you cant run a business in the negative. Hopefully you understand that.

Also from 2008-2017 they ran in the red for 7 of the 10 seasons.

You know what else happened betgween 2008 and 2019? Their franchise value more than tripled.

They lost $46m in 2017 when they still had a $188m payroll. They had a $130m payroll in 2018. $114m in 2019. Right now they have $92m, I thought they were projected to be around $100m when it's all said and done. Going from your Craine's/forbes article, it has to be pointed out that they also mention the Tigers had record revenue in 2017, despite their average attendance falling by nearly 3000 people. The Tigers don't need massive attendance figures to make money, as we can see if their revenue is climbing while their attendance is slipping. And attendance wouldn't slip so much, and franchise value would climb a bit faster, if they didn't allow the club to become historically awful.

And this doesn't go near what sort of benefits the Ilitch empire as a whole could see from having one of their assets recording a loss while raking in others areas (Wings, entertainment, pizza) or the leverage they'll have going into their next negotiations with FSD in looking to take part ownership of the sports network or even starting their own regional sports channel.

No one is saying the Tigers have to spend $200m every year, but they could go $130m right now and break even, or more likely make (more) money.

 

[Bondurant]

Again....

Forbes: Tigers ran $46 million loss last season while franchise growth has slowed

The FACT they're losing money, is why they're cutting payroll to dump their crap contracts. Now once theyre gone if they refuse to pay up I'll agree with you. But they're a mid market team which means when they're attendance rises(with success obviously) they can break even with about 130-150m payroll.

But they needed a major transition after losing 50m a year for multiple years. It's sort of common sense that you cant run a business in the negative. Hopefully you understand that.

Also from 2008-2018 they ran in the red for 7 of the 10 seasons.

Ilitch's are not paupers. Attendance has been dropping because it's clear this team is headed in the wrong direction. Every viable player has been traded except for Miggy with his albatross contract. There's no reason for people to pay to watch this hot garbage dumpster fire. Detroit has fielded 2 of the worst teams in MLB history in under 20 years.

Junior needs to drop the Tigers, Wings or both.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

You know what else happened betgween 2008 and 2019? Their franchise value more than tripled.

They lost $46m in 2017 when they still had a $188m payroll. They had a $130m payroll in 2018. $114m in 2019. Right now they have $92m, I thought they were projected to be around $100m when it's all said and done. Going from your Craine's/forbes article, it has to be pointed out that they also mention the Tigers had record revenue in 2017, despite their average attendance falling by nearly 3000 people. The Tigers don't need massive attendance figures to make money, as we can see if their revenue is climbing while their attendance is slipping. And attendance wouldn't slip so much, and franchise value would climb a bit faster, if they didn't allow the club to become historically awful.

And this doesn't go near what sort of benefits the Ilitch empire as a whole could see from having one of their assets recording a loss while raking in others areas (Wings, entertainment, pizza) or the leverage they'll have going into their next negotiations with FSD in looking to take part ownership of the sports network or even starting their own regional sports channel.

No one is saying the Tigers have to spend $200m every year, but they could go $130m right now and break even, or more likely make (more) money.

But what does spending 30m extra accomplish right now? It can get them 3 more decent players. That's not going to make you a good team AND now you may not even get a top 5-10 pick.

The tigers need talent and affordable contracts. That can be accomplished after 2020, I do not understand how as a fan you can not be patient for a 3 year rebuild, that's less time than the red wings. We see what happens when you hold onto mediocrity, you wanted that for the tigers?

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Ilitch's are not paupers. Attendance has been dropping because it's clear this team is headed in the wrong direction. Every viable player has been traded except for Miggy with his albatross contract. There's no reason for people to pay to watch this hot garbage dumpster fire. Detroit has fielded 2 of the worst teams in MLB history in under 20 years.

Junior needs to drop the Tigers, Wings or both.

Thatd be foolish. Both teams are setup to be able to go on 10 year long succesful streaks, after 1 more season each of tanking. They're both acquiring top talent, bringing in younger cheaper players, the only issue I have at the moment is I'm not a big Avila fan, but maybe in a few years I'll feel differently.

 

[Winger98]

But what does spending 30m extra accomplish right now? It can get them 3 more decent players. That's not going to make you a good team AND now you may not even get a top 5-10 pick.

The tigers need talent and affordable contracts. That can be accomplished after 2020, I do not understand how as a fan you can not be patient for a 3 year rebuild, that's less time than the red wings. We see what happens when you hold onto mediocrity, you wanted that for the tigers?

Here's one article that asks if tanking is worth it, and I'm still trying to find an article I read about how MLB teams return to contention quicker when not falling to the bottom of the league. You can also go here and start looking at where top players from throughout the years were drafted. MLB draft results don't resemble the NHL's at all, with big talent coming from all over the place. Is there talent at the top? Yeah, but the #1 guy doesn't show up at the top a lot in the HR or wins lists - especially when you start going nine or ten years out to allow for some guys to develop a bit longer before catching up with guys who may have been more developed at a younger age but plateaued.

For a comparison, let's go to a post @Ricelund has a page or two back where we shared unhappiness about the Tigers. The White Sox never bottomed out to the extent the Tigers have, but look at that list of players they have now and see where they came from. Now, part of it is that the Tigers just haven't had the same sort of talent to deal to get that type of return. But signing another decent player or two to flip for more prospects is just as valid of a way to bring in young talent.

And if the Tigers focus on more short term (1-2 year) deals, they would still maintain that flexible salary structure.

rebuilding in the MLB isn't necessarily the same as rebuilding in the NHL.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Here's one article that asks if tanking is worth it, and I'm still trying to find an article I read about how MLB teams return to contention quicker when not falling to the bottom of the league. You can also go here and start looking at where top players from throughout the years were drafted. MLB draft results don't resemble the NHL's at all, with big talent coming from all over the place. Is there talent at the top? Yeah, but the #1 guy doesn't show up at the top a lot in the HR or wins lists - especially when you start going nine or ten years out to allow for some guys to develop a bit longer before catching up with guys who may have been more developed at a younger age but plateaued.

For a comparison, let's go to a post @Ricelund has a page or two back where we shared unhappiness about the Tigers. The White Sox never bottomed out to the extent the Tigers have, but look at that list of players they have now and see where they came from. Now, part of it is that the Tigers just haven't had the same sort of talent to deal to get that type of return. But signing another decent player or two to flip for more prospects is just as valid of a way to bring in young talent.

And if the Tigers focus on more short term (1-2 year) deals, they would still maintain that flexible salary structure.

rebuilding in the MLB isn't necessarily the same as rebuilding in the NHL.

In recent history teams that tank to win and win a world series : nationals, astros.

Teams that spend to win: yankees, Dodgers.

Difference is the tanking teams have won world series in the last 5 years. Tanking to build your core is very succesful, then once your core hits the majors, a few free agency and trade acquisitions is what puts you over the top.

It's honestly pretty similar to hockey. You cant just do 1 or the other, you must do both. You're wanting the tigers to only spend, and frankly they DO NOT have the money to spend to win like we did under ilitch. If they spent 100m more this season, we would still miss the playoffs. They need that young, cheap core.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

In recent history teams that tank to win and win a world series : nationals, astros.

Teams that spend to win: yankees, Dodgers.

Difference is the tanking teams have won world series in the last 5 years. Tanking to build your core is very succesful, then once your core hits the majors, a few free agency and trade acquisitions is what puts you over the top.

It's honestly pretty similar to hockey. You cant just do 1 or the other, you must do both. You're wanting the tigers to only spend, and frankly they DO NOT have the money to spend to win like we did under ilitch. If they spent 100m more this season, we would still miss the playoffs. They need that young, cheap core.

I get that it is Mike vs Chris... But they still have Ilitch ownership and a billionaire ownership group.

Chris can do what he likes, but if the Tigers and Wings don't get turned around soon the narrative on the difference between him and his fathers ability to fund winners and find good people might be a bigger talking point. I am willing to admit the circumstances he inherited are different especially with us pushing hard to do different things with both teams in the twilight years of Mike Ilitch. Still they aren't poor and frankly their goal of creating an Ilitch network to replace FSD isn't going to be well received with two dead last place teams where they appear to have decided to get cheaper with both products.

 

[Ezekial]

I wonder who State will get to replace Dantonio...

 

[spintheblackcircle]

They should hire Fickel so tOSU could beat TTUM two times every year.

 

[MintBerryCrunch]

Any interest here in bringing Narduzzi back?

 

[FireBird71]

They should hire Fickel so tOSU could beat TTUM two times every year.

LMAO Fickel’s lost to Michigan as a head coach already

 

[Reality Check]

LMAO

Mark Dantonio Steps Down At Michigan State Weeks After Collecting $4M Bonus


This was the first time since D'antonio was hired that it seemed Sparty fans were becoming restless with MSU Football. At least more than the usual.

This is a pure scumbag, yet smart move on his part. Especially if sanctions are coming.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

My guess is Narduzzi and Fickel would want to see how bad the damage is. That is my feeling on why they installed Tressell for this part of the process.

 

[Reality Check]

Valenti is a clown in general but he isn't pulling any punches here:

Breaking News: Mark Dantonio Abrubtly Announces Retirement - The Valenti Show - Omny.fm

This is straight up shady on the surface.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He can say what he wants, I know family and whatnot is what they have said.

I am extremely disappointed as a Spartan fan.

But then again as a Spartan fan and Lion fan, I have come to know I am not supposed to have nice things in football. Tough way for the best coach in program history to go out, have a feeling we are going to find out a little more. Agree with Valenti going to town on them for the tweet, even while doing this abruptly they should have announced a press conference before the tweet, not after when they had gotten lambasted rightfully for an hour in the news cycle.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

He can say what he wants, I know family and whatnot is what they have said.

I am extremely disappointed as a Spartan fan.

But then again as a Spartan fan and Lion fan, I have come to know I am not supposed to have nice things in football. Tough way for the best coach in program history to go out, have a feeling we are going to find out a little more. Agree with Valenti going to town on them for the tweet, even while doing this abruptly they should have announced a press conference before the tweet, not after when they had gotten lambasted rightfully for an hour in the news cycle.

i am not a state fan but its kind of disappointing that he did it this way and left the school to scramble to find a coach at such a horrible time. i think they can get fickell but at this date i wouldn't take it if i were fickell. its such a horrible time to take the job, he has his recruiting class at cincy and has a recruiting class he doesn't want at state.

 

[FireBird71]

Torkelson with a couple bombs in his first preseason game...gonna look good in the Old English D

 

[Winger98]

Tigers sign Cam Maybin. Solid depth move.