Messi vs. Ronaldo

[cgf]

Stop posting such sarcastic responses if you want to continue debating with me. I won't continue this if all you're going to do is post sarcastic nonsense.

Does this imply that you are serious when posting about CR7 “being a European champion” having any relevance to this discussion?

 

[Elliman]

Does this imply that you are serious when posting about CR7 “being a European champion” having any relevance to this discussion?

Yes it is. English isn’t my first language. I don’t always get sarcastic remarks. In the context of our convo yes it did matter and no I wasn’t being sarcastic.

 

[illpucks]

hes not even the Ronaldo in Brazil. Ronaldinho was better and would have had a better career if he wasnt such a man ****e

Ronaldinho was better at tricks and ball control. But not better overall than Brazil Ronaldo. But better than both messi and c.ronaldo

 

[KJS14]

Are you ok? You seem very aggressive over this. Its just a discussion and a simple disagreement.
I was simply pointing out he started and played. So in 10-30 years he can say he started. He can say he played. He won't be telling a white lie like the man you quoted.

I'm really not being aggressive, that might be a language/tone misunderstanding. I'm just using logic and a comparison.

I obviously know that Ronaldo started the final. It's not a direct comparison, but rather a perception of how Ronaldo supporters (not Ronaldo himself) view his Euro 2016 achievements compared to what actually happened. We're only 2 years out from the tournament and there are examples littered in this thread of people saying that Ronaldo's speech to the team won them that game.

 

[cgf]

Yes it is. English isn’t my first language. I don’t always get sarcastic remarks. In the context of our convo yes it did matter and no I wasn’t being sarcastic.

Then yeah, we should just not discuss this cause that is hilarious to me. That Messi dragging his team to ET of the World Cup final is somehow less impressive than CR7 cheerleading from the bench as his team won the euro final without him, is a joke whether you mean it that way or not. If you are serious about saying it that just makes the joke funnier.


And I hear you, English is my third language so I have that problem sometimes as well.

 

[Stray Wasp]

I mean. Regarding national team tournaments...
Are people really just dense, or deliberately ignoring the actual events in order to further their agenda?

Let's make something clear... Portugal had no business winning the EURO, and Argentina had no business being in the final in 2014.

But before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, while both Ronaldo and Messi did their part and were integral in those runs, neither was THE reason why their side made it that far (nor was Messi the reason why Argentina lost).

Argentina scored a grand total of TWO goals in 4 knockout matches. Messi assisted on one and that was it - but he was far from some sort of a non-factor.
He did what he could under the circumstances.
Thing is, they conceded ONE goal in those 4 games (the ET Götze winner).
They had some luck in the draw (an ordinary Swiss side, a horribly-coached Belgium squad, and the aging Holland who barely scraped by Costa Rica).

Portugal conceded ZERO goals in the 4 knockout matches in EURO 2016.
They scored 4 goals, and Ronaldo helped decide two games (vs Croatia and vs Wales). He did what he could under the circumstances, and was integral to the Portugal squad. But like with Messi in 2014, had Portugal lost the final, only fools would be blaming Ronaldo.
They had some luck with the draw (horribly-coached Croatia, ordinary Poland, a one-off Welsh squad).

Both of these teams grinded their way to the finals with defensive football, looking for moments of brilliance from Cristiano and Messi.
They were their teams best players, and they were the biggest contributors, but they are not why their teams won.
They conceded a combined 1 goal in 8 games. That's why both those two teams were in the finals in 2014 and 2016 (and Cristiano and Messi did their part to help their teams get there).

Regarding the bolded part, I think we have to work on a poster-by-poster basis.

Unfortunately, this post is so balanced and so accurate that we'll have to have you burned at the stake in case such qualities spread.

 

[YEM]

they're both now even on missed penalties for this tournament
could be huge, as portugal now get urugay instead of russia in the next round...

 

[Havre]

I’m guessing after that game Messi will soon be in the lead again

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah I had Ronaldo ahead of Messi until that game, now I definitely don’t. Messi’s better.

 

[Elliman]

Then yeah, we should just not discuss this cause that is hilarious to me. That Messi dragging his team to ET of the World Cup final is somehow less impressive than CR7 cheerleading from the bench as his team won the euro final without him, is a joke whether you mean it that way or not. If you are serious about saying it that just makes the joke funnier.


And I hear you, English is my third language so I have that problem sometimes as well.

But I didn’t say any of this? Perhaps English is your 4th language.

 

[Panteras]

Messi is about 1 or 2 penalties away from being at Ronaldo's level

 

[cgf]

But I didn’t say any of this? Perhaps English is your 4th language.

Nah, my spanish has fallen way out of practice, it's definitely my 4th language & I never took to mandarin

...on which point I have to say "f*** you" to the difference between 1st- & 3rd-tone "Wu"! My ears are far too white to hear that shit

At the end of the day Portugal won. Ronaldo plays for Portugal. He's a European champion.

Yeah except Ronaldo did start and Ronaldo did play in the game.

Does this imply that you are serious when posting about CR7 “being a European champion” having any relevance to this discussion?

Yes it is.

If you'd like to explain how the implication of these statements isn't that CR7's "victory" is somehow more valuable an accomplishment than Messi's "failure" I'm listening. As, to me, it would have to be for it to be relevant to this discussion. So if I'm misunderstanding your point in bringing CR7's Euros, please set me straight.

 

[Asiantuntija]

FFS, Argentina is not a much better team than Portugal. I must repeat it again. Messi is the only player that has scored for the team in WC Qualy or WC games for a year and a half. Let that sink in.

And Messi is waking on the field in almost every game at some point, no matter if he plays good or bad, its his way of saving energy and I couldn't care less about it.

You must only turn on at the WC because if you were a RM fan you would know Messi shows up for the big games.


I just should stop alltogether replying to the ignorant posts.

Way better material and it's not even close. That's not true. Aguero scored against Iceland. Argentina would still be really good team without Messi but Portugal won't be nothing without Ronaldo.

I could and it gave really bad picture about his attitude against Croatia. He wasn't able to do anything with ball & walked 50 % of time without any kind of motivation for creating space for others with off-ball play. Coach should bench him against Croatia because he wasn't helping his team at all.

Messi shows up for the big games but he doesn't do it on same level than Ronaldo and it's not close. Numbers don't lie.

 

[Corto]

This thread just keeps reminding me we're on a hockey board, not a football forum.

Though tbh, the level of knowledge and/or ignorance isn't much different on a football forum.

 

[Asiantuntija]

I'm fine with it if someone sees Messi as a better player. But if someone sees Ronaldo as a better player it seems to be way too much for most of Messi fans.

If we take look at numbers we can easily see that Ronaldo is better player against high quality teams like Bayern Munchen and Messi is better against low quality teams like Granada. I bet you won't find many managers who would pick Messi over Ronaldo against Bayern Munchen.

 

[Havre]

That is the problem. You can’t compare the two based on the numbers.

Anyone with some knowledge of football would understand Messi is so much more than just goals. He could have scored 100 goals less and he still would have been the better player. Messi was and is always key to Barcelona’s build up play in a completely different way than Ronaldo ever was. That is not criticism of Ronaldo it is just that Messi is that unique. Ronaldo is arguably the best among “normal” football players - Messi is just different.

 

[KJS14]

This thread just keeps reminding me we're on a hockey board, not a football forum.

Though tbh, the level of knowledge and/or ignorance isn't much different on a football forum.

I was going to say that the hockey takes aren't all that much better around here.

 

[BahlDeep]

1 point i wanna make. You take Messi off Argentina its still a fairly good team you take CR7 of Portugal its Avg at best. In 4 yrs when players like fernandes Guedes and martins develop a little more itll be different but right now Avg.

LOL, so Messi has to be judged because the Argentinian team is run by dumbasses? And that narrative that Portugal has an average team is completely false. They beat France in the finals without him. Portugal have an excellent coach and they mesh well together.

 

[Asiantuntija]

Anyone with some knowledge of football would understand Messi is so much more than just goals. He could have scored 100 goals less and he still would have been the better player. Messi was and is always key to Barcelona’s build up play in a completely different way than Ronaldo ever was. That is not criticism of Ronaldo it is just that Messi is that unique. Ronaldo is arguably the best among “normal” football players - Messi is just different.

Well i'll respect your option but i'll see it completely different way. Messi has excellent playmaking abilities but the way Ronaldo creates space for others is just something else, his physical presence is on whole another level. Ronaldo lead his team to 3 Champions League victories in row scoring huge amount of goals at biggest games against world best defenders playing extremely clutch every single time. And even without that incredible goalscoring ability he would be one of world better players.

 

[Halladay]

I find it interesting that before that missed penalty Ronaldo was up by 2 votes, now he is down by 4.

 

[Asiantuntija]

I find it interesting that before that missed penalty Ronaldo was up by 2 votes, now he is down by 4.

Most people probably already forget what Messi did at first game.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Most people probably already forget what Messi did at first game.

That makes sense considering they forgot what he did in 2014,2015 and 2016.

 

[Edo]

Well i'll respect your option but i'll see it completely different way. Messi has excellent playmaking abilities but the way Ronaldo creates space for others is just something else, his physical presence is on whole another level. Ronaldo lead his team to 3 Champions League victories in row scoring huge amount of goals at biggest games against world best defenders playing extremely clutch every single time. And even without that incredible goalscoring ability he would be one of world better players.

This doesn't get enough attention. That is ridiculous. It's been against some great teams too. No fluff.

Ronaldo has has the better career and his accomplishments are more impressive.

 

[les Habs]

Well i'll respect your option but i'll see it completely different way. Messi has excellent playmaking abilities but the way Ronaldo creates space for others is just something else, his physical presence is on whole another level. Ronaldo lead his team to 3 Champions League victories in row scoring huge amount of goals at biggest games against world best defenders playing extremely clutch every single time. And even without that incredible goalscoring ability he would be one of world better players.

Absolute bullshit. He did very little in this year's Final and he's also not showed up in other finals unless of course you fall into the "well he scored a penalty when it was all over and took his shirt off" category as you do. Sticking to this season alone, what did he do against Bayern? His first goal against Juventus in the 2017 took a deflection or very likely would have been saved. He didn't do much against Atleti in 2016 and the same in 2014 as I already noted. To say he's been clutch every single time is ridiculous and false, but this is Ronaldo we're talking about so I'm not surprised.

 

[Elliman]

Nah, my spanish has fallen way out of practice, it's definitely my 4th language & I never took to mandarin

...on which point I have to say "**** you" to the difference between 1st- & 3rd-tone "Wu"! My ears are far too white to hear that ****



If you'd like to explain how the implication of these statements isn't that CR7's "victory" is somehow more valuable an accomplishment than Messi's "failure" I'm listening. As, to me, it would have to be for it to be relevant to this discussion. So if I'm misunderstanding your point in bringing CR7's Euros, please set me straight.

You are writing all this out of context. I never argued Ronaldo is better than Messi because he won the Euro cup. That was someone else. You are a very aggressive poster.