Messi vs. Ronaldo

[Havre]

This doesn't get enough attention. That is ridiculous. It's been against some great teams too. No fluff.

Ronaldo has has the better career and his accomplishments are more impressive.

So the difference is Ronaldo´s 5 vs. Messi´s 4?

I guess this poll should be Ronaldo vs. Costacurta then?

I´m not sure if everyone in this thread understand football is a team game. Some might think Iceland qualified to the WC by having better individual players than Croatia, Ukraine and Turkey (who they beat in the qualifier). Saying Ronaldo is better than Messi because what the team has achieved is just lazy.

 

[cgf]

You are writing all this out of context. I never argued Ronaldo is better than Messi because he won the Euro cup. That was someone else. You are a very aggressive poster.

Yeah, I definitely can come off that way, though I don’t mean anything much by it. Just have this smartass-streak that it’s tough to suppress when discussing something as inconsequential as sports...especially when I’m back in Chicago around the day-1s.

And my bad about conflating your posts with the previous poster.

I’m being sincere when I say, please ignore the way that I am & help me understand your point. Why is CR7 being a European champion relevant to this discussion if you weren’t contrasting it to Messi’s international resume?

 

[cgf]

I'm fine with it if someone sees Messi as a better player. But if someone sees Ronaldo as a better player it seems to be way too much for most of Messi fans.

If we take look at numbers we can easily see that Ronaldo is better player against high quality teams like Bayern Munchen and Messi is better against low quality teams like Granada. I bet you won't find many managers who would pick Messi over Ronaldo against Bayern Munchen.

Many of us regulars who have posted in this thread aren’t Messi fans, we just think he’s decisively better than CR7 even though other-Ronaldo is himself an all time great

Which isn’t to say there aren’t aggressive Messi fans around (stares at les habs)...just that a lot of people who you might label Messi fans for posting in this thread, don’t actually have a horse in this race.

Like personally, I think both are great...but also over rated because their #s, consistency & durability aren’t put into the context of 1) the pro offense rule changes, 2) the further concentration of talent at the top clubs post-Bosman, 3) the greater # of games they play now a days in which to rack up goals, & 4) the innovations in medicine & sport science that might have kept Van Basten from exploding into a million little pieces, or may have given Gerd an extra couple of inches to make him even more lethal in the box, etc.

CR7’s heart would have kept him from ever even playing pro 40 years ago, so it’s hard not to imagine what some of the other all time greats would’ve done if they had the science to stay as durable as Messi n CR7 have, ya know?

That’s why I hate GOAT debates in general and mostly only get involved to tease Ronaldo fanboys because of some of the silly arguments they use, like him “inspiring” his teammates to victory 2 summers ago...

 

[Asiantuntija]

Absolute bull****. He did very little in this year's Final and he's also not showed up in other finals unless of course you fall into the "well he scored a penalty when it was all over and took his shirt off" category as you do. Sticking to this season alone, what did he do against Bayern? His first goal against Juventus in the 2017 took a deflection or very likely would have been saved. He didn't do much against Atleti in 2016 and the same in 2014 as I already noted. To say he's been clutch every single time is ridiculous and false, but this is Ronaldo we're talking about so I'm not surprised.

Not at all. In 2016 he went goal per game after group stage, scoring twice against Roma & hatrick against Wolfsburg. 2017 destroyed Bayern Munchen scoring hatrick at home & twice in away game, hatrick also against Atletico & scored twice at final against Juventus. Two goals per game, historical numbers. 2018 3 goals against PSG & Juventus. 1,20 goal per game. Haters can hate, but numbers don't lie.

 

[les Habs]

Not at all. In 2016 he went goal per game after group stage, scoring twice against Roma & hatrick against Wolfsburg. 2017 destroyed Bayern Munchen scoring hatrick at home & twice in away game, hatrick also against Atletico & scored twice at final against Juventus. Two goals per game, historical numbers. 2018 3 goals against PSG & Juventus. 1,20 goal per game. Haters can hate, but numbers don't lie.

None of that proves what you said: "playing extremely clutch every single time." So you're wrong, again.

 

[Asiantuntija]

None of that proves what you said: "playing extremely clutch every single time." So you're wrong, again.

Yes it does. I watched those games and it's very hard to forget his historical domination.

 

[Edo]

None of that proves what you said: "playing extremely clutch every single time." So you're wrong, again.

Messi is notoriously bad in finals. So why even bring up Ronaldo's in attempt to boost Messi up?

 

[Vasilevskiy]

So Messi sucks in big games.

 

[gary69]

As if Messi wasn't clutch in at least three of his Barca's CL wins, not to mention in the finals themselves. Well, granted, when injured, his leadership and pep talk from the bench in his first CL title didn't match Ronaldo's in EC 2016.

 

[les Habs]

Yes it does. I watched those games and it's very hard to forget his historical domination.

LOL. No, it doesn't. That's a fact. I gave you plenty of examples, including multiple CL Finals, where that wasn't true. So it isn't "every single time" and therefore you are wrong, again.

Messi is notoriously bad in finals. So why even bring up Ronaldo's in attempt to boost Messi up?

LOL, clueless as ever. He's never had a bad CL Final, including the one he well overshadowed Ronaldo (who it should be said didn't bother to defend on a play that resulted in Messi scoring) and he's the King of the Copa del Rey.

 

[Live in the Now]

Messi never got shut down by Lovren in a CL Final. I do know that.

 

[Halladay]

One more win by both team, and we get this. But I think Uruguay will beat Portugal. Not sure aboug the other.

 

[KJS14]

Messi hasn't even won the treble since 3 years ago. And couldn't go invincible this year. Sad!

 

[Stray Wasp]

Many of us regulars who have posted in this thread aren’t Messi fans, we just think he’s decisively better than CR7 even though other-Ronaldo is himself an all time great

Which isn’t to say there aren’t aggressive Messi fans around (stares at les habs)...just that a lot of people who you might label Messi fans for posting in this thread, don’t actually have a horse in this race.

Like personally, I think both are great...but also over rated because their #s, consistency & durability aren’t put into the context of 1) the pro offense rule changes, 2) the further concentration of talent at the top clubs post-Bosman, 3) the greater # of games they play now a days in which to rack up goals, & 4) the innovations in medicine & sport science that might have kept Van Basten from exploding into a million little pieces, or may have given Gerd an extra couple of inches to make him even more lethal in the box, etc.

CR7’s heart would have kept him from ever even playing pro 40 years ago, so it’s hard not to imagine what some of the other all time greats would’ve done if they had the science to stay as durable as Messi n CR7 have, ya know?

That’s why I hate GOAT debates in general and mostly only get involved to tease Ronaldo fanboys because of some of the silly arguments they use, like him “inspiring” his teammates to victory 2 summers ago...

The other point to add to this excellent post is my usual reminder that Van Basten suffered injuries because the rules were lenient on defenders who kicked people. Pele was kicked out of the 66 World Cup, Maradona was kicked to pieces in 82- only to suffer a still worse fate at club level- and Puskas was hobbled in 1954. Simply put, modern football protects its stars on the field, particularly on the biggest stage (Neymar in 2014 excepted). Once upon a time, it didn't.

 

[Evilo]

If Germany doesn't thug France out of the 82 WC, it could be argued Platini would have won both a WC and EC and crowned as MVP of both. Imagine his legacy.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Messi is notoriously bad in finals.

Presumably this is 'bad' in some slang meaning of the word used by young people, similar to 'wicked' when I was a lad?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Physical play was simply part of the game then. Even the top sides had their fair share of hatchet men back then. I think there's a balance here, but football is not meant to be a contact-free sport.

 

[Evilo]

Physical play is still part of the game. Butchers aren't.

 

[Stray Wasp]

I find it interesting that before that missed penalty Ronaldo was up by 2 votes, now he is down by 4.

At the beginning of the weekend, I'm sure I saw Messi was ahead. So maybe people voted for Ronaldo while drunk out of their skulls, then repented when they sobered up.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Physical play was simply part of the game then. Even the top sides had their fair share of hatchet men back then. I think there's a balance here, but football is not meant to be a contact-free sport.

I agree with you on the point about balance. Where that balance is I find hard to judge.

Mind, there are so many checks and balances in every era. While I think life for the individual defender is harder now because of the rule changes since 1990, to what degree the greater attention to defensive organisation mitigates that is a moot point.

 

[robertmac43]

Messi is definitely the best at ripping Arsenal to shreds

 

[Live in the Now]

Physical play was simply part of the game then. Even the top sides had their fair share of hatchet men back then. I think there's a balance here, but football is not meant to be a contact-free sport.

It's not, but it also shouldn't be one where players can get fouled 10 times and kicked out of future games or break their back without anyone getting in trouble.

 

[Cassano]

Messi is definitely the best at ripping Arsenal to shreds

Him and Drogba

 

[Edo]

LOL, clueless as ever. He's never had a bad CL Final, including the one he well overshadowed Ronaldo (who it should be said didn't bother to defend on a play that resulted in Messi scoring) and he's the King of the Copa del Rey.

Messi has lost the 2007, 2015, and 2016 Copa America final. And the 2014 World Cup Final.

With the CL, Ronaldo is 5-1. And he has the Euro. Career wise, not sure you can say that Messi has had a better one.

Nobody cares about league cups.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Messi has lost the 2007, 2015, and 2016 Copa America final. And the 2014 World Cup Final.

With the CL, Ronaldo is 5-1. And he has the Euro. Career wise, not sure you can say that Messi has had a better one.

Nobody cares about league cups.

LOL My favourite poster not named SEPH...

Messi has 4 CL wins and never lost a CL final + olympic gold.

Ronaldo also lost in 2004 Euro final... but you know f*** facts and let's just count Messi's losses and Ronaldo's wins. because I like this narrative more.