Messi vs. Ronaldo

[Edo]

LOL My favourite poster not named SEPH...

Messi has 4 CL wins and never lost a CL final + olympic gold.

Ronaldo also lost in 2004 Euro final... but you know **** facts and let's just count Messi's losses and Ronaldo's wins. because I like this narrative more.

Olympic gold? Why even bring that up? That's even lower than a domestic cup. It's more like Luis Figo lost a Euro Final. Ronaldo was 19.

Again, trophy wise, Ronaldo takes the cake. You can't even argue it. I'm not sure why you are attempting to.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Olympic gold? Why even bring that up? That's even lower than a domestic cup. It's more like Luis Figo lost a Euro Final. Ronaldo was 19.

Again, trophy wise, Ronaldo takes the cake. You can't even argue it. I'm not sure why you are attempting to.

So, anytime he wins something it's insignificant got it. If he won the Copa in 2015, you'd be claiming it was a fake tournament. Since, he lost you'll count it.

... and Messi just turned 20 in the middle of the tournament.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Messi, by far

 

[Goodbahd]

Messi. Ronaldo isn’t even the best Ronaldo of all time. Ronaldo from Brazil was more dominant!

 

[Hadoop]

Ronaldo isn’t even the best Ronaldo of all time. Ronaldo from Brazil was more dominant!

No. Just no.

 

[Hadoop]

Ronaldinho was better at tricks and ball control. But not better overall than Brazil Ronaldo. But better than both messi and c.ronaldo

Similar to my previous response no, Ronaldinho was not better than both Messi and C. Ronaldo.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

If not for injuries, the Brazilian Ronaldo definitely had the ability to be better than Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. But if you just look at the career stats then he obviously fell a bit short. But at his best before the injuries, dude was insane and dominating in a way I've never seen another guy do.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Him and Drogba

What about Wenger?

 

[Asiantuntija]

LOL. No, it doesn't. That's a fact. I gave you plenty of examples, including multiple CL Finals, where that wasn't true. So it isn't "every single time" and therefore you are wrong, again.

We can always cross the i's and dot the t's. I mean every single season, of course there is bad games that happens to everyone. Ronaldo has 4 goals in 5 final games. And even if Ronaldo wouldn't score it doesn't mean he had bad game like he didn't have in neither of these finals.

Messi has been more clutch in past, but that time has passed way ago and these days it Ronaldo all night long.

 

[les Habs]

We can always cross the i's and dot the t's. I mean every single season, of course there is bad games that happens to everyone. Ronaldo has 4 goals in 5 final games. And even if Ronaldo wouldn't score it doesn't mean he had bad game like he didn't have in neither of these finals.

Messi has been more clutch in past, but that time has passed way ago and these days it Ronaldo all night long.

You said "every single time". So you were wrong as I pointed out.

Yeah, he scored those four goals, but it was in six matches and not five. On top of that, one goal was a penalty when the score was already 3-1 and the match effectively over. Another, as I've already noted, was a deflected shot. As for his performances, he didn't show up much in almost half of those finals including this year. In fact he was only officially Man of the Match once.

Wrong, again. He showed up in this year's Copa Final, he showed up in both Clasicos this year, he showed up in the Copa Final, etc. That's just this past season and not to mention getting Argentina to the World Cup or today.

So you're wrong about Ronaldo AND Messi now, but then the regulars of this forum have known that since the first day you decided to post here.

 

[Live in the Now]

C. Ronaldo has been more dominant than Ronaldo.

And C. Ronaldo is the best striker ever even though he doesn't necessarily play that position, but he's always so close to goal he might as well be. Still not the best player ever though.

 

[Corto]

If not for injuries, the Brazilian Ronaldo definitely had the ability to be better than Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. But if you just look at the career stats then he obviously fell a bit short. But at his best before the injuries, dude was insane and dominating in a way I've never seen another guy do.

I still don't understand how people don't see this.
I watched R9 throughout his career. I taped the Brazil-Sweden group game when he was 17 because he was supposed to play (he didn't).
It's not like I'm just looking up stats etc., he was an amazing player.... BUT....

Ronaldo's (by far) best season was the one at Barca. 47 goals in all competitions... And came second to Suker-Mijatovic led Madrid that season.
None of his other season come remotely close to that one (34 goals is his second).
Cristiano had 6 (SIX) seasons in which he scored (significantly, two 60+ goal seasons) more goals than R9, and pretty much every one of his seasons is better then R9's second best season.
Not to mention all the team trophies (key player and MVP on teams that won the CL 5 times... which R9 never won).

It really isn't lose. Longevity, peak, individual success, team success.
Messi and Cristiano are in a league of their own compared to everyone, including Ronaldo de Lima.

 

[JJ68]

C. Ronaldo has been more dominant than Ronaldo.

And C. Ronaldo is the best striker ever even though he doesn't necessarily play that position, but he's always so close to goal he might as well be. Still not the best player ever though.

Not on the biggest stages. I still havent seen anyone since top his performances from the world cups in 02 and 98 combined.

 

[Corto]

Not on the biggest stages. I still havent seen anyone since top his performances from the world cups in 02 and 98 combined.

Again, comparing international achievements is silly because neither Cristiano nor Messi can hand out birth certificates to someone like Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, R. Carlos, etc etc.
And even so, they were part of teams with significant success (CR EURO 2016, Messi WC 2014).

But as you mentioned that, in 98 Ronaldo scored 4 goals. Surely nothing spectacular for a then-considered the best player on the best team.
And he was completely gone from the final, so much so, that his performance in that game has always been clouded with mystery, speculating an illness etc.
His one big moment was vs a real good Holland side in the semi, but other than that, his whole WC was rather pedestrian for a striker of his reputation and quality at the time.

And 2002... Credit where credit's due, Brazil won, and Ronaldo scored 8 goals.
They faced China and C. Rica in group, Belgium in the 2nd round and Turkey in group and semis (both times they won by 1 goal helped on by some hilarious reffing).
The only "tier 1" team they played in that whole mockery of a tournament was England (2-1 win with goals from Rivaldo and Ronaldinho).
In the final, the poor, Ballack-less German side with Kahn in goal.
They (Brazil) had the best bracket in the worst WC ever.

Again, credit where credit's due, they won while the other favorites disintegrated and failed (internal conflict, bad games, or just flat out got pushed out by the refs in case of Italy and Spain).
But at no point was there ever hardship and trial for Brazil in 2002, it felt like a routine win after routine win vs inferior teams.
Ronaldo got the goals, but he never looked "otherworldly" or special really... It was a better team knocking off inferior teams and he was just the target man for it.

For example, just last season Cristiano scored 10 goals in 5 games vs Bayern, Juve and Atletico to lead Real to the CL. 5 goals in 3 games vs Juve and Atleti alone (world's two best defensive teams).
Messi has countless examples of his own special feats.
Certainly more impressive than R9's 98 and 02 WC tournaments.

TLDR; No, I can't see why anyone would call R9 in 1998 and 2002 the pinnacle of football. Not even close.

 

[Ivan13]

Messi. Ronaldo isn’t even the best Ronaldo of all time. Ronaldo from Brazil was more dominant!

Oh boy.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't care what people say about stats. This isn't the NHL. I've been having these types of discussions for over 25 years. It's always been eye test and always will be eye test. Ronaldo vs Cristiano Ronaldo eye test isn't even close, it really isn't. Ronaldo was a combination of power, speed and skill that was unprecedented and hasn't been seen again.

Messi is harder to compare because he brings a different aspect and his game is going in a different direction. Eye test there is very, very close. But I prefer the Ronaldo style personally over Messi's small boy game, but that's personal preference obviously.

I will give Cristiano one compliment. Nobody's ever in the history of the game has been as good at manipulating the scoresheet in his favour so consistently.

 

[Havre]

I love Ronaldo and I fully agree that looking at stats the way you do in baseball (or NHL for that matter) isn't relevant in the same way for football, but I also believe Ronaldo the myth exceeds the Ronaldo we actually saw. Even Moussa Sissoko looked unplayable for those 45 mins in the European Championships. Ronaldo had spells and individual games where he was ridiculously good, but he was also invisible quite often (at least compared to peak Messi and C. Ronaldo).

 

[Corto]

I don't care what people say about stats.

You're comparing a striker to a winger-turned-striker.

If you're gonna ignore numbers, goals, trophies, awards, titles.... Just because they don't suit your POV, not sure there's any point talking about anything.

In the end, football isn't about dribbling, running past people, etc. It's about scoring goals, efficiency and winning as a team.
Or Robert Prosinecki would've been the GOAT.

Peak Ronaldo de Lima had more flair that the current Cristiano, sure (debatable whether he had more flair than Cristiano before he turned striker).
But efficiency wise? We're not judging dribbles and "power and speed", you judge efficiency.
And no players in history comes anywhere near to Ronaldo and Messi. Surreal numbers that absolutely dwarf other players' numbers, while being the best players on their teams and while winning countless team and individual trophies.

No, it's not close. It's just the other way around from what you're saying.

 

[Luigi Habs]

In their last games Ronaldo missed a penalty and Messi scored a great goal

Messi is back being the better player now

 

[Havre]

Ronaldo was very close to a goal a game before he busted his knee.

At that point in his career he has better "numbers" than C. Ronaldo and Messi.

 

[Suiteness]

Ronaldo was a combination of power, speed and skill that was unprecedented and hasn't been seen again.

The only comparable was Pele.



Just one that I picked but there's literally dozens more like that.

 

[Evilo]

Ronaldo was a combination of power, speed and skill that was unprecedented and hasn't been seen again.

Kylian Mbappe is the name you're looking for.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

R9 over CR7 and Messi is a bad take. Ronaldinho over CR7 and Messi is absolutely f***ing stupid.

 

[Corto]

Ronaldo was very close to a goal a game before he busted his knee.

At that point in his career he has better "numbers" than C. Ronaldo and Messi.

I mean, it's not hard to check, and it's not even close to being true.

His knee injury happened in November 199.
3 seasons until then:
Barca, 49 games, 47 goals (his best season)
Inter, 47 games, 34 goals (his 2nd best season ever)
Inter, 28 games, 15 goals (then the injury happened)

124 games, 96 goals is hardly a goal per game.

 

[Luigi Habs]

I mean, it's not hard to check, and it's not even close to being true.

His knee injury happened in November 199.
3 seasons until then:
Barca, 49 games, 47 goals (his best season)
Inter, 47 games, 34 goals (his 2nd best season ever)
Inter, 28 games, 15 goals (then the injury happened)

124 games, 96 goals is hardly a goal per game.

Yeah but even through the stats you could see how fkn difficult it was hard to score in a very defensive Serie A era. Also there were many teams that were very competitive back then. I still remember how much I would sweat my ass off whenever Ronaldo touched the ball. He was that dangerous.

Skill wise he is definitely behind Messi IMO, but ahead of Ronaldo. Both had a better career though.