McDavid Right Now vs. Crosby at His Peak

[daver]

what's his "peak"? is it 2010-13 when he only played 99 games?

His peak is when he was playing his best hockey. At his best, Crosby was on a level above McDavid's best.

I take it you aren't going to agree because it goes against your narrative of McDavid being better at ES, as compelling as that argument is to begin with.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

McDavid is currently better and will cement it in the next couple of seasons.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

His peak is when he was playing his best hockey. At his best, Crosby was on a level above McDavid's best.

I take it you aren't going to agree because it goes against your narrative of McDavid being better at ES, as compelling as that argument is to begin with.

so you have no evidence then.

Crosby has led the league in ES points once (2013-14) and has never led the league in 5-on-5 points

McDavid has led the league in ES 3 years running and 5-on-5 points in 2 of the past 3 years
...and is 22 years old

but Crosby was a "level above" cause you say so...compelling argument

 

[McRpro]

Why do people still insist on having any kind of discussion with daver when it comes to Crosby?

 

[Regal]

so you have no evidence then.

Crosby has led the league in ES points once (2013-14) and has never led the league in 5-on-5 points

McDavid has led the league in ES 3 years running and 5-on-5 points in 2 of the past 3 years
...and is 22 years old

but Crosby was a "level above" cause you say so...compelling argument

This is because of those injuries. Crosby blew away the field when he was playing in those seasons 5v5. From 2010-11 to 12-13, Crosby had 100 5v5 points and 111 ES points in those 99 games. No one else was close to a PPG. He had a 4.18 5v5 P/60 those years. The next closest was Malkin with 2.76. You can criticize him for not staying healthy but the quality of play was obvious

 

[bambamcam4ever]

seriously? points/60 is a massively flawed stat...especially considering that Crosby played the 312th most 5 on 5 TOI during that time frame (10-13)
small sample size is small

Because he got hurt, obviously. He played 99 games in that timespan, which is obviously over a season's worth of games. And shows that his peak level of play dwarfs McDavid.

 

[Regal]

seriously? points/60 is a massively flawed stat...especially considering that Crosby played the 312th most 5 on 5 TOI during that time frame (10-13)
small sample size is small

It's a bigger sample size than a single season...

 

[daver]

so you have no evidence then.

Crosby has led the league in ES points once (2013-14) and has never led the league in 5-on-5 points

McDavid has led the league in ES 3 years running and 5-on-5 points in 2 of the past 3 years
...and is 22 years old

but Crosby was a "level above" cause you say so...compelling argument

Until McDavid wins the Art Ross by 17 points, Crosby is a level above offensively.

As a complete hockey player (2-way, winning, leadership etc...) , McDavid likely needs to clearly surpass Crosby offensively.

 

[Future GOAT]

Because he got hurt, obviously. He played 99 games in that timespan, which is obviously over a season's worth of games. And shows that his peak level of play dwarfs McDavid.

Plenty of rest in between. You have guys in here trying to lump small sample sizes together to make it seem like he sustained that over one long 99 game season, he did not, and had he played full seasons it would have dropped like a stone. It's nothing more than a conveniently skewed stat for Crosby fans to use as a feather in their caps.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

nope...9th in the league from 2010-13
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

I clicked your link and he was first by 3% lol. You sure got us though.

 

[daver]

Why do people still insist on having any kind of discussion with daver when it comes to Crosby?

I guess 52% of HF is also not worth getting into a discussion with given they choose Crosby.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Plenty of rest in between. You have guys in here trying to lump small sample sizes together to make it seem like he sustained that over one long 99 game season, he did not, and had he played full seasons it would have dropped like a stone. It's nothing more than a conveniently skewed stat for Crosby fans to use as a feather in their caps.

Recovering from injuries is not "rest." I really doubt players production increases as they return from injury.

He maintained a 130 point pace over 160 consecutive games in a lower scoring period. Sorry if that bothers Mcfans.

 

[Regal]

It's pretty bizarre that you think he doesn't. He's constantly occupying defenders in front of the net.

Not nearly the the extent of someone like Crosby. And that's not a criticism. He will forecheck to gain possession and battle to the net when the puck is close or drive the net himself. But he's a shooter so he also needs to find soft areas for shooting lanes. He's a different player than Crosby who plays a different game. But anyone who thinks someone who regularly works defenders down low behind the net like Crosby does is weak is just talking out their ass

 

[Future GOAT]

Recovering from injuries is not "rest." I really doubt players production increases as they return from injury.

He maintained a 130 point pace over 160 consecutive games in a lower scoring period. Sorry if that bothers Mcfans.

Recovering from injuries is indeed rest. You don't recover from injuries by "not resting".

Basically, Crosby fans are getting threatened, because they know McDavid is better, and they just can't admit it, this bothers them greatly, some more than others, so they try to find every skewed stat they can to prop their guy up as a form of therapy.

 

[McRpro]

I guess 52% of HF is also not worth getting into a discussion with given they choose Crosby.

Nope. Just you. We're all familiar with your shtick in multiple Crosby threads throughout the years.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

It's a bigger sample size than a single season...

Because he got hurt, obviously. He played 99 games in that timespan, which is obviously over a season's worth of games. And shows that his peak level of play dwarfs McDavid.

so what? it's still far behind the scoring leaders at that time

"dominance" isn't big production for 41 games in 2010-11, 22 games in 2011-12 and 36 games in 2013...he played in 46% of the Pens games during that span

 

[Coffey]

Going by era toughness for assessing why a player is better is silly.

Lucic is the greatest player of our era.

 

[Regal]

Plenty of rest in between. You have guys in here trying to lump small sample sizes together to make it seem like he sustained that over one long 99 game season, he did not, and had he played full seasons it would have dropped like a stone. It's nothing more than a conveniently skewed stat for Crosby fans to use as a feather in their caps.

His 5v5 production was 1.5 times the next best in the league. Whatever factors you want to use to drop it aren't going to hurt it that much.

 

[Albatros]

Crosby and it's not close. McDavid is the better skater but that's about it.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Until McDavid wins the Art Ross by 17 points, Crosby is a level above offensively.

As a complete hockey player (2-way, winning, leadership etc...) , McDavid likely needs to clearly surpass Crosby offensively.

Toews > Crosby then

 

[Regal]

so what? it's still far behind the scoring leaders at that time

"dominance" isn't big production for 41 games in 2010-11, 22 games in 2011-12 and 36 games in 2013...he played in 46% of the Pens games during that span

And people are saying that they're assessing the quality of play, not individual seasons. This isn't difficult.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And people are saying that they're assessing the quality of play, not individual seasons. This isn't difficult.

so Crosby being "dominant" in very small sample sizes is proof he was better at his peak?

Sam Gagner had an 8 point game once....no one has his "peak" then

 

[daver]

Nope. Just you. We're all familiar with your shtick in multiple Crosby threads throughout the years.

So what have I said in this thread that prompted your response? Other than not agreeing that McDavid is better.

My shtick is proving statistical arguments in the face of subjective narrative. You may want to give it a try.

 

[Regal]

so Crosby being "dominant" in very small sample sizes is proof he was better at his peak?

Sam Gagner had an 8 point game once....no one has his "peak" then

It's 99 games, not 8. But dynamite strawman. Big numbers over small samples happen, but these are 3 streaks without regression in between that add up to a fairly significant sample. So are we to believe that Crosby conveniently was hurt at just the right time or came back at the right time every time to benefit and avoid any regression? And that the time in between was always a benefit due to lack of wear and tear and had no ill effects of rust or being out of shape? Seems like a stretch

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I clicked your link and he was first by 3% lol. You sure got us though.

I was reading xGF%

in any case, it's a pretty silly stat when players like Josh Manson lead the league and Adam Pelech are near the top