McDavid in the 80s

[authentic]

This is incorrect. In hockey, intangible skill and sense comes into play, and it is why a guy like Gretzky is better than guys that are measurably faster and stronger than he is.

In a "pure" sport like sprinting, a modern guy with his equipment, track, and training beats any guy from around 80 years ago. The slowest man of the final 8 of the men's 100m Final at the London Olympics in 2012 is still faster than Jesse Owens, the 100m Olympic Gold Medalist from the 1936 Olympics. It's easier for a modern athlete to dominate a sport like sprinting or powerlifting if he were to be transported back in time, as much fewer soft skills come into play. You're basically measuring one thing.

Being faster and stronger than Gretzky using modern equipment and training, still won't make you a better hockey player than him.

It's not incorrect though because players today are better at those skills. Take McDavid vs. Gretzky and that intangible skill and hockey sense comes into play for McDavid today and is one of the main reasons why he's as dominant as he is. The only difference is McDavid is anticipating a much faster game in every way, less time and space, less open ice to navigate through, fewer offensive plays available and he has to make decisions and react far quicker.

If players back then had a hard time knowing which way Gretzky was going to turn or pass to they would be in over their heads with McDavid who would dominate with his intangible skill alone. I do not buy for one second that McDavid going back in time would lack in any skill compared to Gretzky, and that includes hockey sense, timing, passing or whatever. Give him the old stick and maybe he wouldn't put clappers bar down as easily, that's about it.

 

[authentic]

The funny thing is if a 16 year old McDavid went back to 1980 and was given the Gretzky treatment (protected) he would easily outscore him.

 

[Thenameless]

It's not incorrect though because players today are better at those skills.

No player today can finish a breakaway better than Mario Lemieux of the 1980's/90's. No player today would have a better chance of beating a defender one-on-one, and then the goalie with a near perfect shot than Mario Lemieux of the 1980's/90's. McDavid might be faster with the puck, but he doesn't deke better than Lemieux, he's not as big and strong as Lemieux, he doesn't have Lemieux's reach, and he most certainly can't shoot as well as Lemieux. So no, players today aren't necessarily better at those skills. It really wasn't that long ago (around early 2000's I think) that an older, broken bodied, past-his-prime Lemieux was still capable of putting up some pretty gaudy points per game numbers - I'd say this is a lot closer to modern hockey than you're making it out to be.

 

[Machinehead]

Lol @ 80’s hockey. It’s embarrassing just watching some of these clips. Crosby’s one handed backhand has more velocity & accuracy than Gretzky’s wrist shot. McDavid would absolutely destroy the league in the 80’s.

Lol Gretzky had one if the best shots ever. This is embarrassing.

 

[authentic]

No player today can finish a breakaway better than Mario Lemieux of the 1980's/90's. No player today would have a better chance of beating a defender one-on-one, and then the goalie with a near perfect shot than Mario Lemieux of the 1980's/90's. McDavid might be faster with the puck, but he doesn't deke better than Lemieux, he's not as big and strong as Lemieux, he doesn't have Lemieux's reach, and he most certainly can't shoot as well as Lemieux. So no, players today aren't necessarily better at those skills. It really wasn't that long ago (around early 2000's I think) that an older, broken bodied, past-his-prime Lemieux was still capable of putting up some pretty gaudy points per game numbers - I'd say this is a lot closer to modern hockey than you're making it out to be.

1980 is a different game than 2001-03, and Lemieux proved to be a much better goal scorer than Gretzky as time went on because he was simply far more skilled in that aspect once defenses and goalies caught up to the offense that took over in the 80s. McDavid would deke players out more easily and score more goals than Lemieux or Gretzky by far if he went back to the 80s.

 

[authentic]

Lol Gretzky had one if the best shots ever. This is embarrassing.

Not his wrist shot, which is what that poster you quoted specifically said.

 

[authentic]

Long story short though, we aren't agreeing here. It's to be expected though because I haven't seen one person change their minds yet in these discussions.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Lol Gretzky had one if the best shots ever. This is embarrassing.

Messier comes down the wing and scores! “he lifts his leg up while shooting and fools the goalie again, to be able to wrist it on net and score from that distance is remarkable Bob” Lol. Gretzky had a good clapper but took 2 seconds to unload it, players get shots of in .3 seconds now (no time & space). Crosby’s one handed backhand > Gretzky’s wrister in velocity & accuracy.

 

[Machinehead]

Not his wrist shot, which is what that poster you quoted specifically said.

Messier comes down the wing and scores! “he lifts his leg up while shooting and fools the goalie again, to be able to wrist it on net and score from that distance is remarkable Bob” Lol. Gretzky had an okay clapper but took 3 seconds to unload it, players get shots of in .3 seconds now (no time & space). Crosby’s one handed backhand > Gretzky’s wrister in velocity & accuracy.

He only scored 92 goals in a season

 

[authentic]

Messier comes down the wing and scores! “he lifts his leg up while shooting and fools the goalie again, to be able to wrist it on net and score from that distance is remarkable Bob” Lol. Gretzky had an okay clapper but took 3 seconds to unload it, players get shots of in .3 seconds now (no time & space). Crosby’s one handed backhand > Gretzky’s wrister in velocity & accuracy.

1 second from when he receives the pass to when he claps it top shelf, his slapper was really quite awesome in every way except pure velocity. However, there was literally no one around him to stop it.

 

[authentic]

He only scored 92 goals in a season

On goalies that stood up halfway out of the net and stuck a leg out to make a save, yes.

 

[Thenameless]

1980 is a different game than 2001-03, and Lemieux proved to be a much better goal scorer than Gretzky as time went on because he was simply far more skilled in that aspect once defenses and goalies caught up to the offense that took over in the 80s. McDavid would deke players out more easily and score more goals than Lemieux or Gretzky by far if he went back to the 80s.

By far? Not a chance.

 

[authentic]

By far? Not a chance.

The only way he doesn't is if one of those slugs managed to get within 5 feet of him and hack his limbs off.

7:55 of this video. I've seen better goaltending from a house league kid.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

10 year old kids can do things with a stick today, that no one had ever even seen during the 80s.

 

[Machinehead]

On goalies that stood up halfway out of the net and stuck a leg out to make a save, yes.

And nobody else did. Not Mario, and not even Brett Hull who played in higher scoring seasons.

 

[authentic]

And nobody else did. Not Mario, and not even Brett Hull who played in higher scoring seasons.

Refer to post #488.

 

[Machinehead]

Mike Bossy and Jari Kurri were facing the same shitty goaltending. They broke 70 once between them.

 

[Machinehead]

A 36 and 37 year old Gretzky had 97 and 90 points in the DPE at the absolute peak of NHL goaltending.

 

[authentic]

A 36 and 37 year old Gretzky had 97 and 90 points in the DPE at the absolute peak of NHL goaltending.

Lol. Just no.

 

[Machinehead]

Lol. Just no.

Lol. Roy, Hasek, and Brodeur.

 

[authentic]

Lol. Roy, Hasek, and Brodeur.

Weird, I didn't know the league was made up of 3 goalies who technically weren't any better than the best today. Goaltending across the league is much better than in 1996-98.

 

[Machinehead]

People look at him putting up "only" 90-something points late in his career and look at it as an indictment of the era. Nobody realizes how impressive it is that an old man was putting up totals like that.

Scoring peaks around 23-25. Since the season Crosby turned 24 and Ovi turned 25, they've broken 90 points ONCE between them.

Gretzky was breaking 90 points in his late 30's in a lower-scoring league. Let's see McDavid in his late 30's. Can't wait.

 

[Machinehead]

Weird, I didn't know the league was made up of 3 goalies who technically weren't any better than the best today. Goaltending across the league is much better than in 1996-98.

 

[Thenameless]

The only way he doesn't is if one of those slugs managed to get within 5 feet of him and hack his limbs off.

7:55 of this video. I've seen better goaltending from a house league kid.

Inferior goaltending in the 80's, does not make McDavid better than Lemieux. Lemieux is better than McDavid.

 

[authentic]

You clearly don't know as much about hockey as you think you do if you don't agree that goaltending has improved since the 90s.