McDavid in the 80s

[authentic]

Inferior goaltending in the 80's, does not make McDavid better than Lemieux. Lemieux is better than McDavid.

No, him being a more skilled player does though, if he went back in time to 1980.

 

[Machinehead]

You clearly don't know as much about hockey as you think you do if you don't agree that goaltending has improved since the 90s.

Every technical goaltender around today is just a Roy ripoff.

Roy re-invented the position. Hasek broke the record book in terms of single-season success. Brodeur re-wrote it in terms of career success.

Today's goalies don't hold a candle.

 

[authentic]

Every technical goaltender around today is just a Roy ripoff.

Roy re-invented the position. Hasek broke the record book in terms of single-season success. Brodeur re-wrote it in terms of career success.

Today's goalies don't hold a candle.

In terms of skill they do though partly because they learned from them. They also have big advantages in skate technology which helps them keep their balance a lot easier and push from side to side quicker. Not to mention the lighter equipment. I would say Gibson if he went back to the mid-late 90s would easily give Hasek a run for his money as best goalie. Your average back up today is also as good as your average starting goalie from back then.

 

[Thenameless]

No, him being a more skilled player does though, if he went back in time to 1980.

1986 Lemieux (same age as McDavid is today) is better than McDavid of today. And he'd be quite a bit better.

 

[authentic]

1986 Lemieux (same age as McDavid is today) is better than McDavid of today. And he'd be quite a bit better.

We're going in circles. I disagree completely obviously.

 

[Machinehead]

In terms of skill they do though partly because they learned from them. They also have big advantages in skate technology which helps them keep their balance a lot easier and push from side to side quicker. Not to mention the lighter equipment. I would say Gibson if he went back to the mid-late 90s would easily give Hasek a run for his money as best goalie. Your average back up today is also as good as your average starting goalie from back then.

Besides Lundqvist, what goaltender who joined since the lockout is a Hall of Famer?

It hasn't been a particularly good generation for goaltenders at all.

It's starting to feel like you started watching a few years ago.

 

[Thenameless]

Besides Lundqvist, what goaltender who joined since the lockout is a Hall of Famer?

It hasn't been a particularly good generation for goaltenders at all.

It's starting to feel like you started watching a few years ago.

Yes, there's no way Price, Lundqvist, Rinne can compare to Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. This guy's out to lunch.

 

[puckIuck]

No you don't understand, you cannot hit McDavid because he is the fastest. Read above Oilers fanboy posts. Nobody can hit McDavid. Becuz' Speed.

Paul Kariya was pretty fast too but that didn't stop Stevens from making him breathe into his visor

 

[authentic]

Besides Lundqvist, what goaltender who joined since the lockout is a Hall of Famer?

It hasn't been a particularly good generation for goaltenders at all.

It's starting to feel like you started watching a few years ago.

It's starting to feel like you aren't comprehending a single thing I'm saying to be honest. Hall of fame careers are built up over a long period of time, by individuals. You keep focusing on these three goalies as if that proves your point, and it possibly would if Gretzky had faced only those 3 goalies every game. Half the goalies before 2000 still played an unorthodox style, lots of hybrids of stand up and butterfly goalies who weren't overly skilled or big enough to compare to the larger and more technical goalies today. Gibson, Lundqvist, Price at his peak, Thomas, Holtby, Andersen, etc. are better than any other goalie from back then. Your average goalie is a lot better than the average of the late 90s, on average Gretzky faced the average goalie. it shouldn't be hard to figure out.

 

[talitintti]

Every technical goaltender around today is just a Roy ripoff.

Roy re-invented the position. Hasek broke the record book in terms of single-season success. Brodeur re-wrote it in terms of career success.

Today's goalies don't hold a candle.

Every physician today is just a Newton and Einstein rip off - but I understand general relativity better than Einstein ever did. And I'm no-one.

 

[talitintti]

I've literally heard a coach that is coaching a high level professional team state that back when they played in the early 1990s they were clearly less skilled than Junior A players today. That completely matches my eye-test.

 

[authentic]

Yes, there's no way Price, Lundqvist, Rinne can compare to Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. This guy's out to lunch.

Says the guy who thinks McDavid couldn't average 3 points per game if he went back to 1980. 1980!

 

[authentic]

McDavid would easily outscore Gretzky if he went back to 1980 as he is. Fact.

 

[Machinehead]

Every physician today is just a Newton and Einstein rip off - but I understand general relativity better than Einstein ever did. And I'm no-one.

Nobody is denying that athletics get better over generations. I said in this thread that McDavid would be the clear #2.

But we're talking about Gretzky. Had a scientist ever dominated their field the way Gretzky dominated his, we'd be time traveling. He put up numbers that were and are virtually impossible.

 

[talitintti]

McDavid would easily outscore Gretzky if he went back to 1980 as he is. Fact.

I've tried watching Lemieuc highlights and full games back from when he came to the league up to the 2004 World Cup - his hands would still be elite but he would really struggle with the pace of the game today. Everything progresses and goes forward and Mario even stated that Crosby is obviously better than he ever was and there's just no comparison because the league is so much better.

 

[Thenameless]

Says the guy who thinks McDavid couldn't average 3 points per game if he went back to 1980. 1980!

You're really way off with your hyperbole man. Lemieux is a lot closer to a modern player than you think. From the 01-02 to 03-04 seasons, Lemieux played a total of 101 games - he scored 131 points in those games. That's a broken down, 35 to 38 year old Lemieux scoring 131 points in 101 games less than 15 years ago in the modern era of hockey, not the 80's. This is a scoring pace that a young, in-his-prime McDavid is basically scoring at, in the same modern era of hockey. A younger, prime Lemieux is much better than a 35 to 38 year old Lemieux (who was approximating McDavid's current scoring ability). That should make things much clearer to you.

 

[Machinehead]

Certain players transcend time.

Baseball players are bigger, faster, stronger, and more impressive than ever before, and nobody (except maybe Trout, who is also a transcendent talent) is even in the discussion of replicating Babe Ruth, and what he was doing to dead baseballs.

That's another thing. Everyone talks about the equipment advantage McDavid has and nobody is considering the equipment disadvantage Gretzky had.

If he scored 92 with useless hunks of wood, what would be doing with the metal whatever the f*** they use now?

 

[Machinehead]

You're really way off with your hyperbole man. Lemieux is a lot closer to a modern player than you think. From the 01-02 to 03-04 seasons, Lemieux played a total of 101 games - he scored 131 points in those games. That's a broken down, 35 to 38 year old Lemieux scoring 131 points in 101 games less than 15 years ago in the modern era of hockey, not the 80's. This is a scoring pace that a young, in-his-prime McDavid is basically scoring at, in the same modern era of hockey. A younger, prime Lemieux is much better than a 35 to 38 year old Lemieux (who was approximating McDavid's current scoring ability). That should make things much clearer to you.

Small sample, but Mario was close to PPG post-lockout. Not exactly ancient history.

40 years old.

 

[talitintti]

Certain players transcend time.

Baseball players are bigger, faster, stronger, and more impressive than ever before, and nobody (except maybe Trout, who is also a transcendent talent) is even in the discussion of replicating Babe Ruth, and what he was doing to dead baseballs.

That's another thing. Everyone talks about the equipment advantage McDavid has and nobody is considering the equipment disadvantage Gretzky had.

If he scored 92 with useless hunks of wood, what would be doing with the metal whatever the **** they use now?

Gretzky is obviously the GOAT and McDavid is obviously more skilled than him. Hockey skills are completely the product of environment - McD has had the advantage of getting repetitions at twice the game speed as Gretzky at every level.

 

[Passchendaele]

I've tried watching Lemieuc highlights and full games back from when he came to the league up to the 2004 World Cup - his hands would still be elite but he would really struggle with the pace of the game today. Everything progresses and goes forward and Mario even stated that Crosby is obviously better than he ever was and there's just no comparison because the league is so much better.

And Crosby claimed the opposite. What's your point?

If slowish Joe Thornton can be elite with size and hockey IQ alone, why couldn't Lemieux, who was a pretty good skater himself?

Lemieux in his prime would make Crosby his *****. He'd be a lock to win the Art Ross every year, and he'd have it locked down by game #70.

He most certainly wouldn't lose a scoring title to the likes of Henrik Sedin, or Jamie Benn.

 

[Machinehead]

Gretzky is obviously the GOAT and McDavid is obviously more skilled than him. Hockey skills are completely the product of environment - McD has had the advantage of getting repetitions at twice the game speed as Gretzky at every level.

You could turn the game up to x2.0 speed and Gretzky wouldn't blink. He pretty much thought the game at x3.0 speed.

 

[Machinehead]

Mario had 22 in 26 in 2005-06, at 40 years old, post-cancer, with no back to speak of, after they took the redline out, on an awful team.

That should put to rest that they couldn't hang today. Lemieux literally did hang today.

And Gretzky was better.

 

[Thenameless]

Lemieux in his prime would make Crosby his *****. He'd be a lock to win the Art Ross every year, and he'd have it locked down by game #70.

He most certainly wouldn't lose a scoring title to the likes of Henrik Sedin, or Jamie Benn.

In his prime, he might have locked it down even earlier. In the 92/93 season he missed 2 months of play or about 20 games. When he returned from cancer treatment, he was 12 points behind Lafontaine. He ended up winning the Art Ross, 12 points ahead of Lafontaine. McDavid might be better than Lafontaine, but he still doesn't have what it takes to go toe-to-toe with Lemieux.

 

[talitintti]

Do you guys think that in other competitive fields there are super heroes that were way ahead the field today 25 years ago? Surely it sounds ridiculous if you work at any competitive field?

 

[Thenameless]

Do you guys think that in other competitive fields there are super heroes that were way ahead the field today 25 years ago? Surely it sounds ridiculous if you work at any competitive field?

1962 Wilt Chamberlain. Over 50 years ago, over half a century ago. That version of Wilt Chamberlain, time transported into today's NBA, would be the league's best center instantly. The centers of today are not faster, stronger, or more skilled than him. He would be decidedly superior to players like Demarcus Cousins, Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis, or Rudy Gobert (today's best big men). He might have been a freak of nature, but you did want an example.

In Formula 1 racing, I'm also pretty sure that most experts would consider Ayrton Senna (who died around 25 years ago) to be better than any Formula 1 driver, before or after him.