McDavid in the 80s

[sharkhawk]

Do you guys think that in other competitive fields there are super heroes that were way ahead the field today 25 years ago? Surely it sounds ridiculous if you work at any competitive field?

Yes. Jordan in basketball Wozniak and Jobs, Bill Gates in tech. No director compares to Spielberg or scorcese.

 

[talitintti]

Yes. Jordan in basketball Wozniak and Jobs, Bill Gates in tech. No director compares to Spielberg or scorcese.

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates against 2018 smartphones?

 

[Thenameless]

Do you guys think that in other competitive fields there are super heroes that were way ahead the field today 25 years ago? Surely it sounds ridiculous if you work at any competitive field?

I believe Secretariat (1973) is still considered to be the best/fastest race horse of all time. So, there are certainly examples of "super heroes" of the past that are better than any modern day example.

 

[authentic]

You're really way off with your hyperbole man. Lemieux is a lot closer to a modern player than you think. From the 01-02 to 03-04 seasons, Lemieux played a total of 101 games - he scored 131 points in those games. That's a broken down, 35 to 38 year old Lemieux scoring 131 points in 101 games less than 15 years ago in the modern era of hockey, not the 80's. This is a scoring pace that a young, in-his-prime McDavid is basically scoring at, in the same modern era of hockey. A younger, prime Lemieux is much better than a 35 to 38 year old Lemieux (who was approximating McDavid's current scoring ability). That should make things much clearer to you.

I watched his comeback it was amazing. I think Lemieux would be the best offensive player today if he was younger and adapted with the game, but let's not forget he was outscored by Jagr during his comeback. There is no way he would've put up full seasons at that pace in today's NHL. I just don't see how you are equating this with McDavid not being able to go back to 1980 as he is and outscoring Gretzky from there on out. Just don't get it.

 

[authentic]

Mario had 22 in 26 in 2005-06, at 40 years old, post-cancer, with no back to speak of, after they took the redline out, on an awful team.

That should put to rest that they couldn't hang today. Lemieux literally did hang today.

And Gretzky was better.

Who said he couldn't hang today? You're entire arguments are based off of strawmen.

 

[talitintti]

I watched his comeback it was amazing. I think Lemieux would be the best offensive player today if he was younger and adapted with the game, but let's not forget he was outscored by Jagr during his comeback. There is no way he would've put up full seasons at that pace in today's NHL. I don't see how you are equating this with McDavid not being able to go back to 1980 as he is and outscoring Gretzky from there on out. Just don't get it.

There was a lot of talk in 2002 that Lemieux was in the best shape of his career, and you can find a clip of Lemieux vs Sharks in 2003 when the announcers say that Lemieux clearly has the best jump ever in his career - he tried training like a professional then.

 

[Machinehead]

Who said he couldn't hang today? You're entire arguments are based off of strawmen.

You said Lemieux would struggle with the pace of the game

 

[authentic]

Gretzky is obviously the GOAT and McDavid is obviously more skilled than him. Hockey skills are completely the product of environment - McD has had the advantage of getting repetitions at twice the game speed as Gretzky at every level.

It's seriously so obvious but whatever lol.

 

[authentic]

You said Lemieux would struggle with the pace of the game

Struggle to outscore McDavid? Absolutely, if he came here in a time machine from the 80s/early 90s.

 

[talitintti]

Struggle to outscore McDavid? Absolutely, if he came here in a time machine from the 80s/early 90s.

Lemieux has more skill than most players today - but come on, McDavid is clearly two steps ahead of the game right now. He's the same Mario was 25 years ago. He can do practically everything Mario did with twice the speed.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Really, what is the point of this thread? How would McDavid perform in the 80s with modern equipment, training and nutrition against players with 80s equipment, training and nutrition? What an asinine question? It's really nothing more than a fishing expedition from the OP attempting to downplay the quality of the players of the past with a ridiculous proposition.

Hey, how would today's Japanese army/navy/airforce fare if you transported them back in time with their current technology and knowledge to WW2 and had them face the US army/navy airforce with their 1930s/40s tech?

 

[Thenameless]

I watched his comeback it was amazing. I think Lemieux would be the best offensive player today if he was younger and adapted with the game, but let's not forget he was outscored by Jagr during his comeback. There is no way he would've put up full seasons at that pace in today's NHL. I just don't see how you are equating this with McDavid not being able to go back to 1980 as he is and outscoring Gretzky from there on out. Just don't get it.

Do you even read what you're typing? There's nothing to adapt to. Lemieux played with Crosby, who is still playing at a high level today. You weaken your argument when you compare the old, broken version of Lemieux to a Jagr in his prime.

McDavid today, is nowhere near Gretzky of the 80's even with the advantage of modern equipment and training. Note, that I do agree there is an advantage, it's just not enough to cover the difference in ability.

 

[Mbraunm]

There was a lot of talk in 2002 that Lemieux was in the best shape of his career, and you can find a clip of Lemieux vs Sharks in 2003 when the announcers say that Lemieux clearly has the best jump ever in his career - he tried training like a professional then.

Yes....and at that point in his career it was well known that he literally could not tie his own skates...that’s how broken down he was!

 

[authentic]

Yes....and at that point in his career it was well known that he literally could not tie his own skates...that’s how broken down he was!

Not after his comeback, that was in the early 90s. He was far from broken after he trained for 6 months to get into the best shape of his life. Do you think a "broken down old man" would come out of retirement? Come on.

 

[authentic]

Do you even read what you're typing? There's nothing to adapt to. Lemieux played with Crosby, who is still playing at a high level today. You weaken your argument when you compare the old, broken version of Lemieux to a Jagr in his prime.

McDavid today, is nowhere near Gretzky of the 80's even with the advantage of modern equipment and training. Note, that I do agree there is an advantage, it's just not enough to cover the difference in ability.

Seriously, you're wrong. I'm sorry. I'm not going around in circles again. Broken...jesus, you guys can believe what you want.

 

[authentic]

Just so you're all aware too, it's almost 2019 now. That was 16-18 years ago when Lemieux was last a good player. Forsberg said he noticed a big change in the pace of the game from the mid 2000s to when he made his brief comeback in 2011. No version of Lemieux that actually existed would step into the NHL today and dominate McDavid.

 

[Mbraunm]

Not after his comeback, that was in the early 90s. He was far from broken after he trained for 6 months to get into the best shape of his life. Do you think a "broken down old man" would come out of retirement? Come on.

Sorry-but that is the truth. His cardio may have been in top shape but his back was shot even in his second comeback. He was not able to tie his own skates until his final retirement.

 

[Machinehead]

Just so you're all aware too, it's almost 2019 now. That was 16-18 years ago when Lemieux was last a good player. Forsberg said he noticed a big change in the pace of the game from the mid 2000s to when he made his brief comeback in 2011. No version of Lemieux that actually existed would step into the NHL today and dominate McDavid.

So we're not counting the version that was 40 years old and physically broken down who was almost a PPG player in today's game? Are we just choosing to ignore that?

 

[The Panther]

I humbly request that the Mods henceforth ban all these ridiculous "How would so-and-so do if time-traveled back to ___" threads, which are an embarrassment.

We get it. You watch hockey now, admire the speed and skill, and want to convince yourself that everyone now is better so even though Auston Matthews will never score 93 goals, you need confirmation from your peers who watched hockey for all of 4 years that he's better than Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux. This will help you sleep at night.

Here's the thing: It doesn't work like that. To be the best individual player, you have to be dominant at a level above your peers, not dominant at a level above your predecessors from 40 years ago.

I agree that it's unfortunate that today's players can't match scoring feats from the past, but that's what happens in a salary-capped League that's over-expanded, forcing parity on franchises which then strategize by emphasizing team defence across the board.

 

[authentic]

Yes. Jordan in basketball Wozniak and Jobs, Bill Gates in tech. No director compares to Spielberg or scorcese.

Film making is more subjective though.

 

[authentic]

Sorry-but that is the truth. His cardio may have been in top shape but his back was shot even in his second comeback. He was not able to tie his own skates until his final retirement.

No, it's not. You are thinking of when he came back after missing 1994-95 and earlier after radiation.

 

[authentic]

So we're not counting the version that was 40 years old and physically broken down who was almost a PPG player in today's game? Are we just choosing to ignore that?

Ignore it? Explain to me how that proves McDavid wouldn't be better if he went back in time. That was 14 years ago, he lived on the powerplay, he's Mario Lemieux. If he had 0 points it wouldn't really make a lot of sense. I think he is the most talented offensive player of all time more than likely, but McDavid would literally destroy the NHL if he went back to 1980. He would more than double Gretzky in points.

Seriously Teemu Selanne was better at 43. Here's an idea, go back and watch some 1980s Lemieux and try to tell yourself with a straight face that McDavid today wouldn't be better.

 

[authentic]

I humbly request that the Mods henceforth ban all these ridiculous "How would so-and-so do if time-traveled back to ___" threads, which are an embarrassment.

We get it. You watch hockey now, admire the speed and skill, and want to convince yourself that everyone now is better so even though Auston Matthews will never score 93 goals, you need confirmation from your peers who watched hockey for all of 4 years that he's better than Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux. This will help you sleep at night.

Here's the thing: It doesn't work like that. To be the best individual player, you have to be dominant at a level above your peers, not dominant at a level above your predecessors from 40 years ago.

I agree that it's unfortunate that today's players can't match scoring feats from the past, but that's what happens in a salary-capped League that's over-expanded, forcing enforced-parity on franchises which then strategize by emphasizing team defence across the board.

Hey, I'm not the one who made the thread. I'm just responding to idiotic claims that current McDavid isn't better than 1982 Gretzky. It's too funny that people truly believe that, I feel bad for them.

 

[Machinehead]

Ignore it? Explain to me how that proves McDavid wouldn't be better if he went back in time. That was 14 years ago, he lived on the powerplay, he's Mario Lemieux. If he had 0 points it wouldn't really make a lot of sense. I think he is the most talented offensive player of all time more than likely, but McDavid would literally destroy the NHL if he went back to 1980. He would more than double Gretzky in points.

Seriously Teemu Selanne was better at 43. Here's an idea, go back and watch some 1980s Lemieux and try to tell yourself with a straight face that McDavid today wouldn't be better.

So McDavid would have 430 points?

 

[The Panther]

...McDavid would literally destroy the NHL if he went back to 1980. He would more than double Gretzky in points.

After I stopped laughing at your post (Selanne was better than Lemieux...? What?), I then wondered why it is so important to you to convince people that McDavid in a time machine would be 'better' than Lemieux/Gretzky, whoever.

Can you explain why it so important for you to convince other people of this? Obviously, a lot of people agree with you, a lot of people disagree with you, and neither can be proven correct, unless Back to the Future becomes a reality (and McDavid wants to take a trip to the 80s to play rough hockey for way less money, which he wouldn't). Why does this matter so much to you, especially when your opinion, among knowledgeable fans, is clearly not in any kind of strong majority? The definition of "insanity" is continuing to do something you know will fail.

As for the "he would more than double Gretzky in points" comment... Uh, no, he wouldn't.

McDavid would have to use what would feel like, to him, a lumbering, heavy piece of wood to play hockey with. This would slow him down and make his stickhandling appear much more deliberate than it appears now with the super-light, 'whippy' sticks. He might have an easier time slapping the puck with 1984's equipment than now, but as you know slapshots are far from his forte anyway. And the nimble deking and wrist-shots that are his forte would be much more difficult to do.

Getting back to the "would double Gretzky in points" comment, consider a few things:
-- Gretzky effectively doubled the next-best NHLer in points from 1980 to 1988, so what you're saying is that McDavid would score 4 times more than Stastny and Bossy
-- Gretzky easily outscored Mario Lemieux from 1984 to 1988, and again from 1989 to 1991.
-- Mario Lemieux was a teammate of Sidney Crosby
-- In the first 14 games they played together, Crosby had 18 points and Lemieux 17. Mario was 40 years old and days from retirement (again), and Crosby one year from his highest points' season.
-- McDavid has not hugely outscored Crosby in the 3.3 seasons they've overlapped thus far.
Given these factors, it's a laughably misinformed opinion to express, as you are doing with absolute authority, that McDavid would easily double Gretzky in points.

McDavid is one of the greatest hockey players I've ever seen. I think he's the best player I've seen since Mario Lemieux in the early-/mid-1990s. I don't think he's as skilled as Lemieux or Gretzky were in terms of overall hockey IQ and instinct -- that's hardly a put-down, as nobody else is either. McDavid is, in fact, my favorite hockey player for the past 20 years. But he's not at Gretzky or Lemieux's skill level.

Anyway, since you've long-since become entrenched in your opinion which you seem attached to for ego/emotional reasons more than accuracy, I have no doubt my words will have no influence on your thinking whatsoever.