Player Discussion Max Pacioretty discussion part VII: Maximus Decimus Tradius Valus

[montreal]

if he signs before the season, I would be shocked if he got more then say 49M (7 * 7), if he waits till next summer and has a good year maybe he gets 64M depending on how good of a season he has. The guy can flat out score goals but I hate the thought of the Habs signing him for 7 or 8 years. It actually makes me ill to think of it. Just not a fan of the way he plays.

 

[vokiel]

I don't think anyone around the league would want to sign a 31 years old Pacioretty to a longer term than 5 years. I wouldn't want cap recapture in trying to extend this term just to lower his cap hit either. I think he'll get 5 x 7 from a couple of teams no problem, I just don't see Montreal on the short list.

 

[Genesis76]

The Patio was ready afterall.

Max Pacioretty is looking to score big with $3.45M U.S. mansion sale

 

[Schwang]

I doubt that happens. Pacioretty isn't signing anything below what he and his agent believe is fair value. That means Bergevin could get stuck with a contract he doesn't want (salary and modified NMC) and the same possibility for teams who aren't convinced Pacioretty has a bounce back season.

Best case scenario is that he starts the season hot and ameliorates the doubts circling around him. Otherwise he just bides his time and goes UFA.

They won't get nearly enough if he's considered a rental. I believe they'll sign him.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Can't wait too see the shitty return we get for him... MB won one major trade, the "Petry for a 2nd and a 5th" one.

Subban, Galchenyuk, Shaw, Sergachev.

 

[HOPE]

They won't get nearly enough if he's considered a rental. I believe they'll sign him.

nah this whole thing got out of control and we reached a point of no return.

 

[groovejuice]

They won't get nearly enough if he's considered a rental. I believe they'll sign him.

It's not impossible. But Pacioretty holds the cards now. He can say FU, and go right to UFA. The Habs blew yet another opportunity to negotiate a mutually beneficial contract with a top player.

 

[overlords]

Can't wait too see the ****ty return we get for him... MB won one major trade, the "Petry for a 2nd and a 5th" one.

Subban, Galchenyuk, Shaw, Sergachev.

The cole/ryder trade was pretty good, too.

 

[Bacchus1]

At this point, their best bet is sign him to a contract, hope that he has some sort of rebound, and trade him near the deadline. That way, he’s not a rental. Plus, there are always teams looking to shore up for a playoff run so that’s how they’ll get the best return.

I’m almost certain that any new Habs contract sign by Paccio will include a no-movement or a no trade clause. He will want to control his destiny — knowing full well of all the trade rumors surrounding his name, and that won’t necessarily stop after he signs.

Still, a good option for the Habs, especially if the Habs have the right to move him to a short list of teams. Just hope that if he stays he does a good job, and scores lots of goals.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I really don’t like the idea of another 30+ contract. I was good with Radulov because I think his game will age well and at the time I thought there were options for this team to be competitive but I just don’t see Pacioretty aging well and with the direction the team currently looks to be trending, it makes no sense to take the risk. Get a decent return if you can and move on.

I'm good either way... with or without Patch. I just won't be upset that we re-sign him cause we don't get the return we want for him.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He doesn’t fit into any window we have.

Poile forbid that a team looking to win a Cup in 3-5 years from now have a 32-34 year old veteran scoring winger on it. No team has ever won a Cup with any over-30 vets on it.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't think anyone around the league would want to sign a 31 years old Pacioretty to a longer term than 5 years. I wouldn't want cap recapture in trying to extend this term just to lower his cap hit either. I think he'll get 5 x 7 from a couple of teams no problem, I just don't see Montreal on the short list.

If the team's system didn't AIM FOR shots from far out, and if Pacioretty had a decent centreman, I would not be surprised if he could still average 25-30 goals per year for 4-5 more years.

Julien is a deadweight and won't last longer than this season if we are still losing. Pretty soon, we will have a coach with a different approach, and in 2-3 years we will have two more good centreman options for Patches.

The chances that we can get a better player than him by trading him for a draft pick are low.

Stop denigrating the asset, stop losing trades, sign the guy, there is room.

 

[Schooner Guy]

If the team's system didn't AIM FOR shots from far out, and if Pacioretty had a decent centreman, I would not be surprised if he could still average 25-30 goals per year for 4-5 more years.

Julien is a deadweight and won't last longer than this season if we are still losing. Pretty soon, we will have a coach with a different approach, and in 2-3 years we will have two more good centreman options for Patches.

The chances that we can get a better player than him by trading him for a draft pick are low.

Stop denigrating the asset, stop losing trades, sign the guy, there is room.

Like it or not, I don’t think Julien’s going anywhere. His contract is massive and we’re still paying Therrien. Julien will outlast MB.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The cole/ryder trade was pretty good, too.

Vanek would of been a better example

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's not impossible. But Pacioretty holds the cards now. He can say FU, and go right to UFA. The Habs blew yet another opportunity to negotiate a mutually beneficial contract with a top player.

I disagree with the bolded part. Patch was not signing a deal that worked for the Habs under any circumstance. Not going to happen. Especially not after how he was underpaid in his current contract and the circus ride he is going through in Montreal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Like it or not, I don’t think Julien’s going anywhere. His contract is massive and we’re still paying Therrien. Julien will outlast MB.

Both Julien and Bergevin have 4 years in term left. Anybody know what Bergevin's yearly salary is? I believe Julien is around $5M

 

[nhlfan9191]

Poile forbid that a team looking to win a Cup in 3-5 years from now have a 32-34 year old veteran scoring winger on it. No team has ever won a Cup with any over-30 vets on it.

That’s not the point. We’ll already have Price and Weber eating up $18 million in cap in years past their prime. Once the team hopefully gets good again in a couple years, I’d rather not have a fortune invested in overpaid veterans. Pacioretty should’ve been dealt already. Now we’re going to try and resign him because Bergevin missed his window for a big haul? It’s time to move on from Pacioretty and go in another direction. His trade value being low because we hung onto him to long doesn’t change that.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Like it or not, I don’t think Julien’s going anywhere. His contract is massive and we’re still paying Therrien. Julien will outlast MB.

As I said, Julien won't last past this season, of course if the roster, as mediocre as it is, still massively underperforms.

Contract or not, the team owners can't afford the massive hemmorage they are starting to get on the revenue side, and it will only get worse if the team continues to offer uninspired play.

Now, if you tell me that MB is gone mid-season then the new GM might be told by Molson that he has to give Julien until the rest of the year. However, if nothing good happens, we could BOTH be right. Julien would outlast MB, but still be gone by year's end.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That’s not the point. We’ll already have Price and Weber eating up $18 million in cap in years past their prime. Once the team hopefully gets good again in a couple years, I’d rather not have a fortune invested in overpaid veterans. Pacioretty should’ve been dealt already. Now we’re going to try and resign him because Bergevin missed his window for a big haul? It’s time to move on from Pacioretty and go in another direction. His trade value being low because we hung onto him to long doesn’t change that.

Price at $10.5M for 8 more years is a massively worse problem than Pacioretty at market value. Perhaps Price retires due to what I suspect is a physical ailment and the team catches a break. In addition, Shaw likely retires within two years.

At any rate, it is premature to worry about that now. We have plenty of space now and we don't know for sure at this time, which if any of the three marquee players will have declined, and how much, if any, we will be over cap at that time, by which surely another $9.4 M in Petry and Shaw will be off the books one way or the other.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Price at $10.5M for 8 more years is a massively worse problem than Pacioretty at market value. Perhaps Price retires due to what I suspect is a physical ailment and the team catches a break.

Price isn’t retiring. The contract is structured in a way where there’s to much money left on the table in the final year for him to walk away. The only thing they could do is find a way to get him on IR. Pacioretty is coming off a sweetheart deal with this team. Do you think he’d be coming into negotiations without making sure Bergevin remembers that? No thank you.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Price isn’t retiring. The contract is structured in a way where there’s to much money left on the table in the final year for him to walk away. The only thing they could do is find a way to get him on IR. Pacioretty is coming off a sweetheart deal with this team. Do you think he’d be coming into negotiations without making sure Bergevin remembers that? No thank you.

No player, even Jesus Price, will stay active if he is too ill to play. All I said was that if that happens, which it might, the Habs will be out of that contract. If on the other hand, Price is healthy and playing well, the overpayment may not be crippling.

We have to stop running scared of paying proven players market value. There is a reason that most of the better 25% of players don't make it to UFA. It's because dumping them for a rental return rarely works for the team.

 

[nhlfan9191]

No player, even Jesus Price, will stay active if he is too ill to play. All I said was that if that happens, which it might, the Habs will be out of that contract. If on the other hand, Price is healthy and playing well, the overpayment may not be crippling.

We have to stop running scared of paying proven players market value. There is a reason that most of the better 25% of players don't make it to UFA. It's because dumping them for a rental return rarely works for the team.

Whose running scared of paying proven players? Not Bergevin. He threw $83 million at a 31 year old goalie, $5.5 million at Drouin who had a season and a half of experience, $4.6 million at a declining depth defenseman in Alzner, tried to throw $5 million at Bonino, and would’ve been the one to sign Lucic to that crippling contract the Oilers are now stuck with if he had the chance. Maybe he needs to start getting more scared.

 

[vokiel]

If the team's system didn't AIM FOR shots from far out, and if Pacioretty had a decent centreman, I would not be surprised if he could still average 25-30 goals per year for 4-5 more years.

Julien is a deadweight and won't last longer than this season if we are still losing. Pretty soon, we will have a coach with a different approach, and in 2-3 years we will have two more good centreman options for Patches.

The chances that we can get a better player than him by trading him for a draft pick are low.

Stop denigrating the asset, stop losing trades, sign the guy, there is room.

There's just too many gambles in your plan to my taste. You're gambling on Julien being relegated before his term and you're also gambling on the center crop we have to gain chemistry with a winger who arguably only ever had chemistry with DD. We've done a lot of gambling in recent years and I would rather put that effort in a good rebuilding session. A 1st at the deadline is enough for me, if not you'll have to wait until July 1st, because I seriously doubt that Alan Walsh will not push his client to UFA and that's when the habs are done with Patches.

I'm well aware that the draft is a gamble as well, but it's a gamble on a 17-18 years old.

 

[Censored Toad]

Can't wait too see the ****ty return we get for him... MB won one major trade, the "Petry for a 2nd and a 5th" one.

Subban, Galchenyuk, Shaw, Sergachev.

LOL!

OMG KS.... we are still waiting to see how more then half those trades will work out.. I mean we need to give webber at least 3 more seasons before we know if it was a bad trade for mtl... and like shawzee is a playoff warrior who has two rings... eller only has one so really shaw is still 2X the player that eller is.... and I mean I can totally see Domi ripping it up with drouin and potting 35 goals now that he is playing on the first line.... not buried on an offensively starved li........... team??.............

.....

hey wait a minute.......

 

[groovejuice]

I disagree with the bolded part. Patch was not signing a deal that worked for the Habs under any circumstance. Not going to happen. Especially not after how he was underpaid in his current contract and the circus ride he is going through in Montreal.

That's my point really. Why wasn't he happy to re-sign in Montreal? Bergevin and his henchmen have done a fine job of alienating, disrespecting and losing players. They have made the Habs a team to avoid. 7 years to get from the "Class of the NHL" to a goddam pariah.

When you treat people like **** and do it in public, people eventually catch on. Not to mention wallowing in the sewer of the league.

The following head shake isn't for you TLTQ. It's for the " le saboteur tout les jour" himself.