Player Discussion Max Domi - Maximus Dominatus Edition

[Deebs]

I'd like to see the Mad Max we had last year. This year's version doesn't seem to be playing with an edge/mean streak.

 

[Runner77]

Domi probably prefers to play center, but the angle flicked by the toxic media you quote is that his motivation is economical. You don't know, he and his source doesn't know. plain and simple and to claim otherwise is dishonest and creates a snowball effect (which I quoted) to show my point. Don't you think Domi would like to find his groove and start putting numbers no matter where he plays ?

another point is that if Julien's objective given by his boss is to make the playoffs, then you understand KK is not getting into the top 6 as a C and domi might end up on suzuki's wing but will most likely stay at center. That has hardly anything to do with him pouting and more to do with the refusal of management to prioritize developing players instead of short term results.

so that's my point, sorry if you were offended, I meant no disrespect and wanted to show where a ''report'' like that can have a snowball effect on the general narrative. My apologies if it was received as anything else than a warning about trusting one 3rd hand witness to build a narrative.

I remember the day Hossa got traded to Montreal. So do you.

I think it hinges on the reporter's credibility. You can choose not to believe him.

The other stuff he cites is his analysis and what it represents for Domi to be negotiating his next contract as a winger as opposed to a center -- it's quite a significant drop in salary, especially on a long term deal. Now, that part, as I read it, is the reporter's own take. He's not saying that this is the principal motivation behind the move to center by Domi -- he's not saying that he has any facts about that. I think this part of the piece should have been in a different article altogether as it makes interesting points for whichever players are using positions as a means of securing a better contract.

The only part that really matters and jumped at me, is how Domi is said to have put pressure on the team for him to go back to center. I don't see how that is not plausible. He is struggling relative to last year's production but beyond that, his defensive play has visibly eroded and he's getting called on it. Perhaps if he were more productive, I suspect there might be less arrows thrown his way.

While I get your point about KK to an extent, I don't see a parallel. KK made no demands, at least none that were reported or that I've seen. At most, he might have expressed a preference but as he always does, he ends up deferring to his coach.

Second, Domi retaking the center spot is relegating Suzuki to the wing and every indication we've had from the games Suzuki was playing at center, is that he looked more comfortable and better than Domi on several facets. If management was really serious about prioritizing the devlopment of players instead of short term results as you argue, then Suzuki is the one who should have remained at center as he did nothing to justify losing the spot -- he was productive and in his element.

 

[azcanuck]

You should read some behavioral biology. Everything is development. From birth to the league, from reflex to spatial analysis, to "character". No one is born with talent, just predisposotions that get catalyzed or not.

This is hockey Einstein.

 

[THE HOFF]

I think it hinges on the reporter's credibility. You can choose not to believe him.

The other stuff he cites is his analysis and what it represents for Domi to be negotiating his next contract as a winger as opposed to a center -- it's quite a significant drop in salary, especially on a long term deal. Now, that part, as I read it, is the reporter's own take. He's not saying that this is the principal motivation behind the move to center by Domi -- he's not saying that he has any facts about that. I think this part of the piece should have been in a different article altogether as it makes interesting points for whichever players are using positions as a means of securing a better contract.

The only part that really matters and jumped at me, is how Domi is said to have put pressure on the team for him to go back to center. I don't see how that is not plausible. He is struggling relative to last year's production but beyond that, his defensive play has visibly eroded and he's getting called on it. Perhaps if he were more productive, I suspect there might be less arrows thrown his way.

While I get your point about KK to an extent, I don't see a parallel. KK made no demands, at least none that were reported or that I've seen. At most, he might have expressed a preference but as he always does, he ends up deferring to his coach.

Second, Domi retaking the center spot is relegating Suzuki to the wing and every indication we've had from the games Suzuki was playing at center, is that he looked more comfortable and better than Domi on several facets. If management was really serious about prioritizing the devlopment of players instead of short term results as you argue, then Suzuki is the one who should have remained at center as he did nothing to justify losing the spot -- he was productive and in his element.

That first paragraph you wrote changes absolutely everything for me. I did not like the way the article was presented I thought it had an unnecessary negative spin on it. Opens the door to a lot of speculation, and provides very few facts. I'm happy you understand where I was coming from.

second paragraph : Define putting pressure. Is it saying you can be as good as last year? you feel more comfortable ? you would prefer playing at center giving the choice ? Knowing MB and Julien, personally I highly doubt there was some kind of ultimatum that was issued. Say what you want about those two, but their egos are too big to bend the knee to a guy they took out of a dumpster a year ago. So that's my second problem with the article. Putting pressure huh ? I'd like to know the exact words used here before I get my pitchfork. its 2019, people get offended too quickly for my personal taste.

your last two paragraphs : If Julien was told to win now and squeeze in the playoffs, then say moving KK in the top 6 and putting domi on the wing is a lot less likely to happen. as far as Suzuki, if he keeps it up he might twist management's arm and send Domi on his wing. Domi has played there before, he says time and time again he likes playing here and what his team mates and coach will think of him when the season ends will have just as much if not more weight in the balance than the position he plays. Having a top 6 winger with energy that can be a top 6 center when you need is not like having a guy that just can't play center at all. in that regard, the presentation of data in the article doesn't take that into account. He won't be signed as a winger, he'll be signed as a guy that can play both. So if you see Domi at center and KK on the 3rd line, its not because Domi is pouting its because julien is trying to win hockey games instead of developing.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This is hockey Einstein.

This is human behavior and adaptation. It's everything, including hockey development in players.

 

[ECWHSWI]

This is human behavior and adaptation. It's everything, including hockey development in players.

you're using too many words in your replys!

 

[peate]

Maybe he's just not the player we saw last year, but more the player Arizona had.
Either that or he's turning into his father.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

you're using too many words in your replys!

Oyvay!

 

[Runner77]

second paragraph : Define putting pressure. Is it saying you can be as good as last year? you feel more comfortable ? you would prefer playing at center giving the choice ? Knowing MB and Julien, personally I highly doubt there was some kind of ultimatum that was issued. Say what you want about those two, but their egos are too big to bend the knee to a guy they took out of a dumpster a year ago. So that's my second problem with the article. Putting pressure huh ? I'd like to know the exact words used here before I get my pitchfork. its 2019, people get offended too quickly for my personal taste.

your last two paragraphs : If Julien was told to win now and squeeze in the playoffs, then say moving KK in the top 6 and putting domi on the wing is a lot less likely to happen. as far as Suzuki, if he keeps it up he might twist management's arm and send Domi on his wing. Domi has played there before, he says time and time again he likes playing here and what his team mates and coach will think of him when the season ends will have just as much if not more weight in the balance than the position he plays. Having a top 6 winger with energy that can be a top 6 center when you need is not like having a guy that just can't play center at all. in that regard, the presentation of data in the article doesn't take that into account. He won't be signed as a winger, he'll be signed as a guy that can play both. So if you see Domi at center and KK on the 3rd line, its not because Domi is pouting its because julien is trying to win hockey games instead of developing.

Your first paragraph: the original text in French said on dit qu'il fait pression pour revenir au centre de façon permanente. L'entraîneur-chef a d'ailleurs cédé ce weekend dernier,

I translated the above text literally by rendering the word "pression" as "pressure". I never stated however, that an ultimatum was involved -- I mean, how could an ultimatum even be evoked or inferred -- that would be completely absurd. Quite obviously, no player has that kind of pull unless they're named McDavid. Looking at it now, the literal translation may be at the basis of your contention. Google translates "faire pression" as "to lobby". I've thus amended the original post.

My translation was too literal but the act of lobbying does involve the act of seeking to persuade, to influence. So, it evokes a modicum of effort on his part, it wasn't a simple demand.

If you want to argue semantics, this is as close as it gets to what was meant by the French expression. My only oversight -- I did the translation on a literal, word-for-word basis. I'm usually more thorough than that, I have good command of both languages and sometimes I'll take minor liberties by not looking up a formal definition. Reason is simple -- this damn job doesn't pay one shilling. But there you have it -- he lobbied the team to go back at center.

Your second paragraph: Domi only has one season at center and was not a center in Zona. Meantime, Suzuki has mostly played center and has excelled in that capacity in juniors. He showed this season that his pedigree was translating. He exhibited great vision and playmaking skills. He was on a good run. There was absolutely no reason to move him to the wing. Ultimately, he was only moved there to accommodate Domi's lobbying and not because Suzuki failed at center -- that's an important distinction. Yes, Domi put up stats last year while playing center but it appears to a lot of us in here FWIW, that his style of play is more suited to the wing and he has mostly played the wing before last season. Can most of us be wrong? Could well be. But, we weren't wrong about Suzuki showing good early returns and not having done anything to justify being moved to the wing.

As for the presentation of data in the article, that part is just the reporter's opinion and should be distinguished as such. If the higher salary from playing center is Domi's motivation, we don't have any evidence of it nor is the reporter saying that this is in fact the case. Hence, we don't need to extrapolate any more other than to state that yeah, you play center, you get paid more. Considerably more. That's it in a vacuum. Good to know but no evidence that this line of thinking was behind Domi's lobbying.

 

[Rapala]

Haha. have you seen Alex play with his other two teams?
Low hockey I.Q. that is a quality nothing to do with "development".
He a blur of speed and a heavy shot with a hockey brain the size of a pebble.
Yet it's the management and coach's fault in Montreal.
continues to be an oft repeated joke.

... And who was it that drafted him to begin with? That is the joke we don't hear nearly enough.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Oyvay!

wakey wakey Einstein!!

 

[THE HOFF]

Your first paragraph: the original text in French said on dit qu'il fait pression pour revenir au centre de façon permanente. L'entraîneur-chef a d'ailleurs cédé ce weekend dernier,

I translated the above text literally by rendering the word "pression" as "pressure". I never stated however, that an ultimatum was involved -- I mean, how could an ultimatum even be evoked or inferred -- that would be completely absurd. Quite obviously, no player has that kind of pull unless they're named McDavid. Looking at it now, the literal translation may be at the basis of your contention. Google translates "faire pression" as "to lobby". I've thus amended the original post.

My translation was too literal but the act of lobbying does involve the act of seeking to persuade, to influence. So, it evokes a modicum of effort on his part, it wasn't a simple demand.

If you want to argue semantics, this is as close as it gets to what was meant by the French expression. My only oversight -- I did the translation on a literal, word-for-word basis. I'm usually more thorough than that, I have good command of both languages and sometimes I'll take minor liberties by not looking up a formal definition. Reason is simple -- this damn job doesn't pay one shilling. But there you have it -- he lobbied the team to go back at center.

Your second paragraph: Domi only has one season at center and was not a center in Zona. Meantime, Suzuki has mostly played center and has excelled in that capacity in juniors. He showed this season that his pedigree was translating. He exhibited great vision and playmaking skills. He was on a good run. There was absolutely no reason to move him to the wing. Ultimately, he was only moved there to accommodate Domi's lobbying and not because Suzuki failed at center -- that's an important distinction. Yes, Domi put up stats last year while playing center but it appears to a lot of us in here FWIW, that his style of play is more suited to the wing and he has mostly played the wing before last season. Can most of us be wrong? Could well be. But, we weren't wrong about Suzuki showing good early returns and not having done anything to justify being moved to the wing.

As for the presentation of data in the article, that part is just the reporter's opinion and should be distinguished as such. If the higher salary from playing center is Domi's motivation, we don't have any evidence of it nor is the reporter saying that this is in fact the case. Hence, we don't need to extrapolate any more other than to state that yeah, you play center, you get paid more. Considerably more. That's it in a vacuum. Good to know but no evidence that this line of thinking was behind Domi's lobbying.

I think when Drouin will return the ''real'' puzzle will start, but for the time being given their objectives (making the playoffs) I think they are right to think Domi will turn it around at center. they can play suzuki up and down the lineup depending on opposition and I think if this team has anything its versatility and a guy like Suzuki helps that tremendously.Also, maybe I'm wrong and you were right all along. I will tip my hat with a smile but I will not accept this kind of journalism. (your translation was fine. it was the direction it went that had me disgusted.). we all good. really enjoyed your post.

 

[Runner77]

I think when Drouin will return the ''real'' puzzle will start, but for the time being given their objectives (making the playoffs) I think they are right to think Domi will turn it around at center. they can play suzuki up and down the lineup depending on opposition and I think if this team has anything its versatility and a guy like Suzuki helps that tremendously.Also, maybe I'm wrong and you were right all along. I will tip my hat with a smile but I will not accept this kind of journalism. (your translation was fine. it was the direction it went that had me disgusted.). we all good. really enjoyed your post.

I don't have any inkling or evidence that they do in fact think that that Domi will turn it around at center. Maybe you have your own source for this, I don't know.

What is clear is that it wasn't in the plans for him to play there. Proof is in the pudding -- he only regained the position after lobbying for it. He had not played any games at center from the beginning of the season until that point. If they were really thinking of playing Domi at center, they would have started him there from game 1.

As for the type of journalism involved, it was a mainstream reporter but his source regarding Domi's lobbying was unnamed. I usually frown upon unnamed sources but am more accepting of them if they come from mainstream media.

The rest of the article is a tangent the reporter chose to get into -- he never said this was Domi's motivation for lobbying -- however, as I mentioned, nor should he have included the comparative salary analysis by position within Domi's article at it could create an unfortunate inference -- which IMHO went beyond the scope.

Finally, my thanks to you as well for taking the time to answer and for keeping the discussion civil.

 

[angusyoung]

you guys are quick on the draw and out of order. Unless ''reports'' are provided this is just a hot pile of ****.

Easy there cowboy, don't lump me in there,I said IF.Anyhow,it's not like the first time people got bent out of shape before the roosters came home to crow.

 

[azcanuck]

This is human behavior and adaptation. It's everything, including hockey development in players.

Innate ability. Gretzky had this "thing", it was a hockey I.Q. He had it in spades. Was it "developed" ? Of course. But you cant make chicken salad out of chicken sheet right? And Alex Garbage has very little of "hockey I.Q." floating through his DNA.

 

[Tabarouette]

just checking in to say he's still doing that one deke

you'll land that deke someday and hopefully it'll be out of your system, mr. Domi

 

[DangerDave]

Domi's play has been mediocre this year. I'm not seeing the intensity that he had last year. No emotion. Just going through the motions out there.

I don't see why we don't try him with Gally and Danault. Those 2 play a much higher intensity game which would hopefully inspire Domi. Especially Gally who loves to chirp. I know Domi loves that.

That would also allow Suzuki to center the second line with Tatar on his wing which looked really good when we tried it. Those two are obviously a great fit as they've connected on a few highlight reel plays already.

 

[Tighthead]

Anyone else reading between the lines and concerned about more than his play?

 

[DangerDave]

Anyone else reading between the lines and concerned about more than his play?

He's not himself lately. His body language is not good. I have no idea why but theirs something there.

 

[Habs]

Maybe he's just not the player we saw last year, but more the player Arizona had.
Either that or he's turning into his father.

His true colors are showing. The floating, uninterested hockey player with almost no hockey sense is the real Domi. He probably thought last year was his contract season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Innate ability. Gretzky had this "thing", it was a hockey I.Q. He had it in spades. Was it "developed" ? Of course. But you cant make chicken salad out of chicken sheet right? And Alex Garbage has very little of "hockey I.Q." floating through his DNA.

You're wrong. Gretzky got optimal cues really early in his development, snowballing an easier path, and imo, has more to do with motivation to get better, than anything else. Motivation at self-correction per se.

Whatever type of 'IQ' you're referring to is a neuronal process, which is malleable with experience. Spatial analysis starts really early and depending on environment, can keep being modulated.

Motivation/reward is the most damning though, as it is set really early on, but like the rest of the brain, it adapts for need. The immediate environment has a huge impact on day-to-day motivation.

And then, there's decision making. It takes hold between the ages of 15 to 25. Highly mediated by the environment, the genes associated with the prefrontal cortex, seat of desicion making, has the highest and most varied set of epigenetic transcription factors of all genes in our entire DNA, in other words, it's the least constrained by genes, most mediated by our environment and those circuits aren't complete until we're 25, and keep on adding experience even afterwards.

General behavior is genetic, while specific behavior is mostly environmentally driven. And intelligence is behavior.

 

[jiboy]

He had a great shift tonight where he stole the puck , deked out waited the pressure and fed a perfect cross ice pass to his open team mate..

 

[HuGo Sham]

he's not himself, but he also has a rookie and a plug playing with him. he loved playing with shaw last year, this year he has nothing. suzuki, while good, is still a 1st year player...he's missing drouin, and habs are missing top 6 talent in general

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's not himself lately. His body language is not good. I have no idea why but theirs something there.

Might have something to do with a contract year where they talked numbers before the season started and he decided to wait. Now that he has waited and we have so many young players in the mix, he's getting a bit frustrated with playing with lack of talent and how this is going to hurt him on his next contract.

Suzuki is the best skilled winger he has but he's still young and needs development. Drouin started with Kotkaniemi and Armia. They moved Drouin with Domi for a few games but it didn't work cause last year they had Shaw doing all the dirty work.

Also, make no mistake about it... he also knows what our fan base is saying on social media... "Domi is not a center and will be a winger once our young centers mature" Remember how quick Suzuki was moved back to wing when they tried Domi on Suzuki's wing?

Domi is a talent I would keep. The key is adding skill around guys like Domi, Drouin, Suzuki, Caufield, Kotkaniemi. Armia is a good physical piece but there are too many growing pain issues going on right now to deal with this in the short term.

 

[swimmer77]

New broom got tired of sweeping clean?

He's definitely off. Don't even see that smirk much anymore. Disconcerting that this is what he is bringing to the table while working for that new contract. Or maybe it's part of MAB master plan. Make 'em suck so they have to sign for cheap. Need to keep accumulating Cap Space.

Who is the real Max Domi?