Matthews vs Scheifele

[djpatm]

Why do some of you waste your time with someone who thinks Matthews is an average first line center? Obviously he doesn't watch him, just ignore him and move on.

As for the poll, Schiefele is better this year, but going forward I comfortably take Matthews.

"Why do you waste your time with people who don't blindly believe what you tell them even if you have no support for your claims".

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

ES stats for this year
Matthews: 24 GP/19 points / 3.11 P60 / 53 CF% / 74 GF% / 59.1 xGF% / 16.54 ICF60 / 7.66 ixgf
Scheifele: 27 GP/ 17 points / 2.32 P60 / 47 CF% / 60 GF% / 48 xGF% / 7.8 ICF60 / 3.89 ixgf

as you can see Matthews is quite a lot better at ES at putting up points and generating offense, but this is all more in depth than point rankings so it went over a certain someone's head

 

[djpatm]

ES stats for this year
Matthews: 24 GP/19 points / 3.11 P60 / 53 CF% / 74 GF% / 59.1 xGF% / 16.54 ICF60 / 7.66 ixgf
Scheifele: 27 GP/ 17 points / 2.32 P60 / 47 CF% / 60 GF% / 48 xGF% / 7.8 ICF60 / 3.89 ixgf

as you can see Matthews is quite a lot better at ES at putting up points and generating offense, but this is all more in depth than point rankings so it went over a certain someone's head

Matthews is 14th in Points Per Minute.

Actually Scheifele is tied with him in that regard.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews is 14th in Points Per Minute.

Actually Scheifele is tied with him in that regard.

those were ES metrics
but if Matthews is tied with Scheifele in points per minute, how do you reach the conclusion that this is Scheifele AINEC? you ignored everything else, particularly relating to offensive generation (Matthews directs way more shots on net and gets chances from better scoring areas)

 

[DashingDane]

Has anyone looked at matchups when comparing them? Haven't watch the Leafs a lot this season but Scheifele has been matched against the other teams best what seems like every shift.

 

[RustyCat]

I am a massive, lifelong Jets fan however I have to say Matthews. He is like this generations Yzerman and Sakic. That said, Chef isn't too far behind and is kind of like an upgraded version of Spezza....

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Has anyone looked at matchups when comparing them? Haven't watch the Leafs a lot this season but Scheifele has been matched against the other teams best what seems like every shift.

same with Matthews for the most part. He gets the toughest matchups on the road, and at home Babcock lets him play against whoever

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Please re-read my posts. "Right now"
Earlier posts. "Scheifele is in his prime."
"Matthews has the potential to be one of the leagues best."
This poll asked who is better? Right now Scheifele is but in a few years time Matthews deffinitly has the potential to be better.

I was just curious to be honest. I'm a huge fan of both these players.

Their draft years were 5 years apart.

First 106 games:

Scheifele:

106GP 20G 31A 51P

Done by age 21 and 9 months.

Matthews:

106GP 53G 42A 95P (not including playoffs)

Done by age 20 and 1.5 months.

I mean, if you want to get dirty with it.

Sweet thanks. It's pretty crazy what Matthews has done in his first 106 games, 95 points is incredible. But I guess that's just "average" for a 19-20 year old

 

[djpatm]

those were ES metrics
but if Matthews is tied with Scheifele in points per minute, how do you reach the conclusion that this is Scheifele AINEC? you ignored everything else, particularly relating to offensive generation (Matthews directs way more shots on net and gets chances from better scoring areas)

I don't care about ES minutes cause I'm not going to fault someone for being productive on the Powerplay.

And I will agree that I was wrong for saying ANIEC, I didn't realize Scheifele plays 21:00 a game vs. Matthews who is at 18:27 (which is quite low mind you).

Still not even close to generational production like Leaf Fans claim.

Sweet thanks. It's pretty crazy what Matthews has done in his first 106 games, 95 points is incredible. But I guess that's just "average" for a 19-20 year old

We're not talking about potential. Leaf fans act like Matthews is already one of the best players in the game. He's not. He's simply not in anyway one of the best players TODAY.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

What is Scheifele's PPG in his first 106 games?

Considering this is a poll about right now, I don’t think it matters

 

[libertarian]

I was just curious to be honest. I'm a huge fan of both these players.


Sweet thanks. It's pretty crazy what Matthews has done in his first 106 games, 95 points is incredible. But I guess that's just "average" for a 19-20 year old

I agree with this totally, Matthews has done great in his first 100+ games and it scary to think what he tops out at. I am a fan of this kid and as a Jets fan I am a fan of Laine but have issues with both "Matthews is better because" or "Laine is better because "when there are 20+ players in the league right now that produce better at this time. In a couple of years from now that may change big time but until then I will wait to see what happens.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

I

We're not talking about potential. Leaf fans act like Matthews is already one of the best players in the game. He's not. He's simply not in anyway one of the best players TODAY.

How many other players have over 53 goals in the last 106 games? Also I just feel people use points as the end all be all like this is a pond hockey league. His D game is just incredible too which has to count for something.

Right now Scheifele squeaks ahead, that I do agree with. In the new year that may change.

 

[olli]

Right now Scheifele is slightly better, but future and potential are definitely higher for Matthews.

 

[Sensinitis]

Right now?
Scheifele not close.

Future?
Matthews probably if continues to develop at this pace.

He's outscoring him by 8 points. This season it's not close.

Yeah k talk to me when he's in the top 10 in scoring. Till then your advanced stats mean zero.

You're the ones literally jumping through hoops to try and hold up your Golden boy on a pedastal he hasn't even touched yet and everyone outside of Toronto unanimously agrees he is the most over rated player in the NHL right now.

That is because of people like you.

We're not comparing him to Gaudreau are we?

The ridiculous claims from Toronto fans come up in every single thread. Matthews is an average first line center. Just check the stats. 19th in PPG, 10th for centers ffs.

Yes, the person with the stats to back up their argument is the delusional one.

Stats that actually matter leafs fans like to ignore lol and than pull up some bs cherry picked advanced stat. No stats support Matthews being better than Sheifele let alone a top 20 player in the league

lol.

Once again, zero support for your claim.

He's an average first line center.



That's because that's all you need to do to make it plainly obvious that he's not generational, or even elite in any sense. It's not like he's close points wise with the people you're comparing him to so you need to dive deeper. It's plain as day. He's not a great point producer today and that's important when you're supposed to be a generational talent. Simple. You Toronto fans seriously need to wake up from your delusions. Maybe one day, maybe even soon, he'll earn that sort of label, but he hasn't even come close yet. Right now you should be using advanced stats to explain why he's better than MacKinnon, Monahan and Kuznetzov, because that's the level he's producing at right now.

I hope you guys aren't a reflection of the intellect of the Calgary Flames board.
Not only should it be plain obvious that raw points mean nothing without context, but even if you want to use them as your primary argument, it is SO misleading to use them only 20ish games into the season, especially because there are so many fluke PPG paces throughout the leading scorers column that will die down (many in fact will turn into 60 point seasons).

In terms of Matthews and Scheifele specifically, the fact that Scheifele shares most of his ice time with one of the best 2-way wingers in the league (Wheeler), while Matthews plays with no one near that caliber, is already a strong indicator NOT to rely primarily on points.
Then, you have to account for the coaching decisions in terms of line combinations. It is clear that Babcock tries to spread the talent throughout his top9, meaning Matthews doesn't get to play with the best players that often as they are spread out on different lines. The Jets on the other hand have a clear no1 line with their two best players on it, and a clear second line, and then a clear third line.
this is called CONTEXT, and it doesn't show in the "top 20 in points bro duuhhh" or whatever childish on-the-surface "arguments" you are relying on.

 

[kyle o connor]

Any sane person who watches broadcast of a HNIC Leafs game should want to vomit 10 minutes into the first period because of the bias/favouritism on tv. I feel bad for Leaf fans because it puts these ideas in their heads about “generational” and “top 5 C” in their head. It’s a major conflict of interest and poisoning every Saturday broadcast for the next decade.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

He also does get 3:14 mins on the PP where Matthews gets 2:13

But it's not to take away from Scheifele, he's a beast and I've been pumping his tires for a long time on HF.

Matthews is just an animal when it comes to generating high danger scoring chances, it's border line generational level in all honesty.

We get it. You think Matthews is generational.

Why don't you go find out what some non-leafs fans think of that opinion

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I wouldn't call out posters on here for using the term generational with him when multiple broadcasters have called him that.

Biased leafs broadcasters

 

[authentic]

Biased leafs broadcasters

And Calgary ones too. I don't care to argue about generational or not though as it seems just about everyone has different definitions and standards for what qualifies as a generational player.

 

[snipes]

Scheifele now. I have Scheifele in my top 5-7 players at any position in the NHL.

Likely Matthews down the road who is a special player in his own right, but hard to say how good Scheifele will be with his work ethic and intelligence.

 

[Dustin]

Can't see a single GM or coach choosing Chef over Matthews right now. So I guess Matthews?

Perhaps next time you want to make a poll using Matthews be a lot more specific otherwise you will get specific haters and fanboys showing up to help eliminate any real conversation.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

We get it. You think Matthews is generational.

Why don't you go find out what some non-leafs fans think of that opinion

"Why don't you go find out what people who don't watch the Leafs and have no clue what they're talking about think?"
hmm good question

 

[libertarian]

Can't see a single GM or coach choosing Chef over Matthews right now. So I guess Matthews

Good thing for 31 teams in the league you are not a GM

 

[Dustin]

What!?

Taking everything into account no GM is going to take Chef over Matthews. Why would they? Matthews is younger, less expensive right now, under control for longer, a better goal scorer, better defensively and a much more marketable player.

Either way, Matthews has played 106 games while Chef has played 334. I wonder how good Matthews will be by game 334.

 

[Plural]

At this very second? Scheif. But I expect Matthews to overtake him, maybe even as soon as this year. He's that good.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

At this very second? Scheif. But I expect Matthews to overtake him, maybe even as soon as this year. He's that good.

I think at ES they're quite close (edge to Matthews) but Scheifele is a lot better on the PP so he gets the edge here overall. Matthews hasn't quite figured out to bring out his best effort on the powerplay for some reason, but I hope he gets there