Matthews vs Scheifele

[libertarian]

That's just a primitive way of looking at it though.

Look at their ice time differences for starters.

Matthews is number 1 in the entire league in high danger scoring chances generated, despite missing 4 games. Do you know who number 2 is? Zach Hyman, that's how unbelievable Matthews has been this year.

Matthews is playing like a generational talent this year, and he's been fantastic defensively. The guy has a crazy +42 high danger scoring chances for/against as well. This is all 5 on 5.

Since Matthews joined the league.

Matthews: GP: 106
Points: 95
PPG: .896

Scheifele: GP: 106
Points: 116
PPG: 1.094

Sorry man but right now it really isn't very close. Matthews is a great young talent that has potential to be one of the league best. Why not wait until he proves it before you throw out words like "generational" around.

 

[MidWestJet]

There is a lot of grey area with this stat. Agreed.

Yea id like a clearer definition of that stats broken down, cause just by the way it sounds doesn't make it sounds as high as some make it out to be. Kinda like saying Michele grabner is a supoirer winger cause he has so many break aways. But id like to be educated on the state first before I pass judgment

 

[garyturner3]

Too close for me to vote; they're both in the next group of elite centers under only McDavid and maybe Crosby right now IMO. Anybody in the AINEC crowd on this one is clearly out to lunch or has some serious biases. If you listen to ANY hockey advisor speak these days, they talk about both of these players being among the very best in the league and right below the McDavid tier. I trust their opinion much more than AINEC clowns in this thread that simply look at the hockeydb stats or the logo on the front of the jersey.

Their offensive production is pretty much identical when you factor in ice time. Scheifele is putting up points at a 15.7% higher pace than Matthews, but is getting almost that same percentage more in ice time because TO likes to roll four lines. I'm of the opinion there's few (if any) forwards in the league today that control the play as much as Matthews does when he's on the ice and the advanced stats back that up. When the team is down a goal late in the 3rd and he's on the ice, he's got another level that nobody else on the ice seems to be able to match. When he's going he dominates the game as much as anybody in the league. Also, not that Matthews' linemates are scrubs by any means, but he's definitely not playing with a Wheeler caliber guy on his wing.

 

[X66]

Yea id like a clearer definition of that stats broken down, cause just by the way it sounds doesn't make it sounds as high as some make it out to be. Kinda like saying Michele grabner is a supoirer winger cause he has so many break aways. But id like to be educated on the state first before I pass judgment

It's broken down by shot location, and expected goals and scoring percentage from that location across the league.

It's nothing like "player shoots from in tight, therefore give him 1 high danger point".

 

[X66]

Since Matthews joined the league.

Matthews: GP: 106
Points: 95
PPG: .896

Scheifele: GP: 106
Points: 116
PPG: 1.094

Sorry man but right now it really isn't very close. Matthews is a great young talent that has potential to be one of the league best. Why now wait until he proves it before you throw out words like "generational" around.

You don't have to tell me Scheifele is a beast, but in that time span Matthews was also 3rd in the NHL in goals.

There is just so much context missing with things like this, like in those stats that you posted it ignores that Matthews played 300 less minutes than Scheifele in that time span, that's equivalent to around 17 games if you average Matthews' ice-time.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Since Matthews joined the league.

Matthews: GP: 106
Points: 95
PPG: .896

Scheifele: GP: 106
Points: 116
PPG: 1.094

Sorry man but right now it really isn't very close. Matthews is a great young talent that has potential to be one of the league best. Why now wait until he proves it before you throw out words like "generational" around.

What is Scheifele's PPG in his first 106 games?

 

[authentic]

Obviously Scheifele is getting up there in age. Still him for now.

Lol what?

 

[libertarian]

What is Scheifele's PPG in his first 106 games?

Please re-read my posts. "Right now"
Earlier posts. "Scheifele is in his prime."
"Matthews has the potential to be one of the leagues best."
This poll asked who is better? Right now Scheifele is but in a few years time Matthews deffinitly has the potential to be better.

 

[Saidin]

They are both kick ass players. Other teams are jealous of Jets/Leafs for having them. Wish there was an 'equal' option.

 

[authentic]

Since Matthews joined the league.

Matthews: GP: 106
Points: 95
PPG: .896

Scheifele: GP: 106
Points: 116
PPG: 1.094

Sorry man but right now it really isn't very close. Matthews is a great young talent that has potential to be one of the league best. Why now wait until he proves it before you throw out words like "generational" around.

I wouldn't call out posters on here for using the term generational with him when multiple broadcasters have called him that.

 

[authentic]

Please re-read my posts. "Right now"
Earlier posts. "Scheifele is in his prime."
"Matthews has the potential to be one of the leagues best."
This poll asked who is better? Right now Scheifele is but in a few years time Matthews deffinitly has the potential to be better.

He probably is better now. Look at the wingers Scheifele plays with and the extra powerplay time he gets. Yet you don't seem to think it's arguable? Hyman is a bloody horrible offensive player and has been by far Matthews most common linemate since he entered the league and Nylander also is not a great goal scorer yet. His other wingers have been mostly Marner (2 goals on the season), Martin (4th liner) and Brown, enough said. The fact that he has produced like he has given his ice time, linemates and defensive play is why he gets the praise he gets beyond the fact that he just entered the league last season. It is remarkable how much he single handedly dominates all aspects of the game. I truly don't see that type of domination from Scheifele but yes I will concede that he has a defensible case for being marginally better currently.

 

[libertarian]

He probably is better now. Look at the wingers Scheifele plays with and the extra powerplay time he gets. Yet you don't seem to think it's arguable? Hyman is a bloody horrible offensive player and has been by far Matthews most common linemate since he entered the league and Nylander also is not a great goal scorer yet.

Sorry but I give up on you Matthews fans. Between you guys and Laine fans it is making it hard to take any of you seriously.

 

[authentic]

Sorry but I give up on you Matthews fans. Between you guys and Laine fans it is making it hard to take any of you seriously.

Whatever you say.

 

[TMLeafs17]

Their draft years were 5 years apart.

First 106 games:

Scheifele:

106GP 20G 31A 51P

Done by age 21 and 9 months.

Matthews:

106GP 53G 42A 95P (not including playoffs)

Done by age 20 and 1.5 months.

I mean, if you want to get dirty with it.

 

[TMLeafs17]

TLDR;

Matthews had more goals than Scheifele had points in their first 106 games played while being over a year and a half younger.

OP doesn’t state right now or future, so give me Matthews, thanks.

 

[flamesforcup]

Stats that actually matter leafs fans like to ignore lol and than pull up some bs cherry picked advanced stat. No stats support Matthews being better than Sheifele let alone a top 20 player in the league

 

[TMLeafs17]

Stats that actually matter leafs fans like to ignore lol and than pull up some bs cherry picked advanced stat. No stats support Matthews being better than Sheifele let alone a top 20 player in the league

What about the ones I posted right above you? They’re not cherry picked and they’re not advanced either. Cheers

 

[Future GOAT]

If "when" is not specified in the poll, it obviously defaults to "now" as that is what everyone is currently experiencing and living in. This is Scheifele comfortably.

 

[Yasuo]

TLDR;

Matthews had more goals than Scheifele had points in their first 106 games played while being over a year and a half younger.

OP doesn’t state right now or future, so give me Matthews, thanks.

Rnh was also much better than Scheifele in his first 106 games lol

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yeah k talk to me when he's in the top 10 in scoring. Till then your advanced stats mean zero.

how many times have you said "look at his place in scoring!!!"?
your hockey knowledge begins and ends with points and it's getting a bit sad

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yea id like a clearer definition of that stats broken down, cause just by the way it sounds doesn't make it sounds as high as some make it out to be. Kinda like saying Michele grabner is a supoirer winger cause he has so many break aways. But id like to be educated on the state first before I pass judgment

Yes, agreed again. There is no clear definition. Leaving it up to interpretation. You can read up on it by googling 'high danger chances'. It's very subjective. I apologize if this is too stats geeky. But you can tell from reading this. High danger chances is lazy term to use with a lot of grey areas to interpret with little context separating shot quality. I wish people would not use it. It means little when you dig deeper.

War-On-Ice scoring chances are different from the Corsica scoring chances. All of them are based on counting shots that meet certain characteristics such as location and shot type to determine how dangerous a given shot is. But determining those characteristics is left to each organization to define.

The second problem is one that Garret Hohl has been vocal in criticizing. Scoring chances represent “binning” of data. Binning is almost always a bad idea because it draws arbitrary boundaries around an otherwise continuous set of data. To use our scoring chance example, all shots have a given danger level. The most logical way to measure that is in expected shooting percentage.

To rephrase, if a player has a clean look from the slot, what is the chance that shot gets past the goalie? Does that shot go in 5% of the time? 10% of the time? 15% of the time? What if the pass preceding the shot came from behind the net meaning that the goalie will have a harder time finding the puck? What if the shooter one-times the shot? What if they catch it and wrist it? All of these things contribute to the likelihood that the puck will end up in the net. Using Ryan Stimson’s passing project data, I established that shooting percentage is impacted by the passing sequence that precedes it.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yes, the person with the stats to back up their argument is the delusional one.

you don't though. You go to nhl.com and look at the point ranking and then form your opinion and spout off multiple variations of "but guys have you seen where he ranks in points" and disregard everything else

 

[djpatm]

how many times have you said "look at his place in scoring!!!"?
your hockey knowledge begins and ends with points and it's getting a bit sad

lol.

Once again, zero support for your claim.

He's an average first line center.

you don't though. You go to nhl.com and look at the point ranking and then form your opinion and spout off multiple variations of "but guys have you seen where he ranks in points"

That's because that's all you need to do to make it plainly obvious that he's not generational, or even elite in any sense. It's not like he's close points wise with the people you're comparing him to so you need to dive deeper. It's plain as day. He's not a great point producer today and that's important when you're supposed to be a generational talent. Simple. You Toronto fans seriously need to wake up from your delusions. Maybe one day, maybe even soon, he'll earn that sort of label, but he hasn't even come close yet. Right now you should be using advanced stats to explain why he's better than MacKinnon, Monahan and Kuznetzov, because that's the level he's producing at right now.

 

[Kelly]

Why do some of you waste your time with someone who thinks Matthews is an average first line center? Obviously he doesn't watch him, just ignore him and move on.

As for the poll, Schiefele is better this year, but going forward I comfortably take Matthews.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Matthews generational

Matthews generational talent .

stahp.