Matthews vs Scheifele

[PucksOnNet]

Sure, while at the same time saying that Matthews is far better defensively, which is just not even close to the truth.

Care to quote me on that?

 

[Saitama]

Care to quote me on that?

Ahh, I misread.

Does he have to be well above PPG to be better though? What about just over PPG with far superior defense?

Sure.

 

[IPS]

This is obviously Matthews. Can't see Scheifele being anywhere near him during their careers.

 

[Saitama]

This is obviously Matthews. Can't see Scheifele being anywhere near him during their careers.

Wow, I'm so incredibly shocked that you of all people would think this! I'm thinking of calling the news!

 

[PucksOnNet]

Sure.

..I'm still waiting for you to quote me on that..

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Are you asking if a 24 year old Schiefele with five years of NHL experience is better than a 20 year old Matthews in his sophomore season I think most reasonable people would say Schiefele.

That said, Matthews put up 68 points and 40 goals as a 19 year old rookie when Schiefele couldn't even make his team at the same age. Long term this is Matthews AINEC

The list of players who were better from 18-20 years in the NHL over Scheifele would be massive. He was a very late bloomer and is still trending up in a big way.
The Jets could have rushed him into the NHL (like the Thrashers did with every first round pick they had). It would have increased his teenage scoring from zero to something but he would be a far worse player now if they had. Scheifele is not a typical example of an NHL player. His post draft growth (game wise) has been incredible.

Matthews is not a typical example of a rookie for sure.
His first season and a 1/3 + has been crazy good.

I have every reason to think that Matthews at Mark's age will potentially be quite a bit better then he is now. The interesting thing with Scheifele is he may not have peaked yet. If we're talking strictly points then a Scheifele /Laine line would produce a lot more of that. Wheeler and Scheif have been very good together but no where close to the ridiculous numbers that we've seen in the past. The Jets have a clear plan to develop Ehlers and Laine away from Mark but I wouldn't be surprised to see them together in the next couple of months.

Those numbers could get scary.

Voted Scheif at this point.
Will give Matthews the benefit of the doubt that he will surpass Scheif over time.

 

[Plural]

..I'm still waiting for you to quote me on that..

He did?

 

[PucksOnNet]

He did?

No, he didn't. I asked in what hypothetical scenario could Matthews be considered better than Scheifele..

 

[Hugh Mungus]

Matthews is not a selke caliber player, 'oh but eliiot Friedman'
quite frankly I don't care about what some Homer analyst says, if Matthews was a selke caliber player right now he'd be the first of his kind not killing penalties, Babcock must be insane.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Matthews is not a selke caliber player, 'oh but eliiot Friedman'
quite frankly I don't care about what some Homer analyst says, if Matthews was a selke caliber player right now he'd be the first of his kind not killing penalties, Babcock must be insane.

Pretty sure Matthews had some Selke votes last year, or are they just "homer" votes?
Also the killing penalty's thing, how many 20 year olds kill penalty's? And why would Babcock use him for penalty's when the Leafs PK is already very good?

 

[kylbaz]

This is obviously Matthews. Can't see Scheifele being anywhere near him during their careers.

Scheifele is over a PPG right now, if they won't be close what will Matthews be 2 PPG player?

 

[PucksOnNet]

Matthews is not a selke caliber player, 'oh but eliiot Friedman'
quite frankly I don't care about what some Homer analyst says, if Matthews was a selke caliber player right now he'd be the first of his kind not killing penalties, Babcock must be insane.

Right, because 20 year olds who are immensely talented offensively are quite often put on the PK aren't they?

 

[TOGuy14]

Matthews is not a selke caliber player, 'oh but eliiot Friedman'
quite frankly I don't care about what some Homer analyst says, if Matthews was a selke caliber player right now he'd be the first of his kind not killing penalties, Babcock must be insane.

As has been said by me many times in this thread already:

Rookies and sophomores are rarely ever asked to kill penalties, regardless of how good they are defensively.

Just look at Schiefele's stats his first 3-4 seasons, Maurice wasn't sending him out there to kill penalties...

 

[Plural]

No, he didn't. I asked in what hypothetical scenario could Matthews be considered better than Scheifele..

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like he's contention was that Scheifele is not that far behind Matthews defensively and the poster disagreed with your notion of Matthews being far better defensively. You claimed to have never said that but it's obvious you did.

Maybe there's some sort of miscommunication here between you two?

 

[Plural]

As has been said by me many times in this thread already:

Rookies and sophomores are rarely ever asked to kill penalties, regardless of how good they are defensively.

Just look at Schiefele's stats his first 3-4 seasons, Maurice wasn't sending him out there to kill penalties...

And more importantly, using your superstar on PK is not optimal. I mean, if you're superstar also happens to be one of the rare players in your team that can PK then you don't have a choice. But if you have players who usually carry around 7-12 minutes a night then it's better to use them on the PK (assuming they're capable) and save the energy of the stars to more proficient scoring situations.

Matthews defensive play is getting tad overrated but his lack of PK is not the reason for it.

 

[Yasuo]

This is obviously Matthews. Can't see Scheifele being anywhere near him during their careers.

So Matthews will be a 100+points player?lol

 

[mattydamon]

Right now - Scheif
Future - probably AM34

 

[Hugh Mungus]

Pretty sure Matthews had some Selke votes last year, or are they just "homer" votes?
Also the killing penalty's thing, how many 20 year olds kill penalty's? And why would Babcock use him for penalty's when the Leafs PK is already very good?

Right, because 20 year olds who are immensely talented offensively are quite often put on the PK aren't they?

As has been said by me many times in this thread already:

Rookies and sophomores are rarely ever asked to kill penalties, regardless of how good they are defensively.

Just look at Schiefele's stats his first 3-4 seasons, Maurice wasn't sending him out there to kill penalties...

if he's as good defensively as some leafs fans are saying his age shouldn't matter, horvats been on the PK since he was 19 and before you say the canucks didnt have anyone else to put, they had the second best pk in horvats rookie season, bottom line is if you have a selke caliber player he should be killing penalties, its not rocket science

 

[Asiantuntija]

Matty in the huge slump at the moment. Three games without any points.

 

[Ainec]

The posts in the Matthews threads at the start of the season vs. now...

For the poll question I'd still take Matthews here but... YIKES

 

[Garthinater]

if he's as good defensively as some leafs fans are saying his age shouldn't matter, horvats been on the PK since he was 19 and before you say the canucks didnt have anyone else to put, they had the second best pk in horvats rookie season, bottom line is if you have a selke caliber player he should be killing penalties, its not rocket science

Plural literally just explained it to you. I'm not sure why it's so difficult for you to understand. Here' the post in case you missed it.

"And more importantly, using your superstar on PK is not optimal. I mean, if you're superstar also happens to be one of the rare players in your team that can PK then you don't have a choice. But if you have players who usually carry around 7-12 minutes a night then it's better to use them on the PK (assuming they're capable) and save the energy of the stars to more proficient scoring situations.

Matthews defensive play is getting tad overrated but his lack of PK is not the reason for it."

It makes no sense to waste your best players minutes on the pk if you have other players who can fill that role.

 

[Instincts]

I like how people in Winnipeg have finally come to understand Matthews > Laine to the point where its not worth debating, so now they have passed the torch to Scheifele.

Or maybe we just realized that it is not worth debating with a few biased TML fans who just happened to be the loudest as well

 

[DRW204]

who is better now? Scheifele

Who might be better in the future? Matthews. AM is lightyears ahead of #55 in his first two seasons and is on track to surpass Scheifele at 24 years old, whether he does or not remains to be seen but highly likely he will. If we are bringing contracts into the discussion, #55's current deal/$ value will likely trump AMs,

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Pretty sure Matthews had some Selke votes last year, or are they just "homer" votes?
Also the killing penalty's thing, how many 20 year olds kill penalty's? And why would Babcock use him for penalty's when the Leafs PK is already very good?

Patrick Kane has gotten selke votes too

 

[DRW204]

i love the whole "hes defensively better" argument. It seems like it is always the one thing fans revert to since it is harder to tangibly measure. Not saying AM is a slouch defensively at all. But just notice that always seems to be the default argument. For the record, Scheifele had selke votes last year as well (according to hockey reference AM was 38th and MS was 30th)...