Matthews vs Scheifele

Who is better?

  • Matthews

    Votes: 157 37.6%
  • Scheifele

    Votes: 261 62.4%

  • Total voters
    418
  • Poll closed .
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nowhereman

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
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Los Angeles
Yeah guys its just NHL coaches and media experts that called him generational.

If they were HF posters i'd take them more seriously.
Coaches and media "experts" (i.e. professional talkers) are as prone to hyperbole as anyone. I don't consider people like Jeff O'Neil or Nick Kypreos to be experts in anything other than hearing themselves talk. And most coaches don't watch other players enough to even have an educated opinion.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Being on a 45 goal pace is generational these days? I guess that makes Boeser generational too, I suppose? Hell, Anders Lee has a higher GPG than Matthews does.

Great player, yes, but stop clutching at the "generational" title. It's delusional.

I'm not clutching at anything just stating facts. Sorry that hurts your feelings. I guess McDavid is not generational then since he isn't even close to leading the league in points right now. Remind me again how many teenage rookies finished 2nd or higher in goals scored. He also leads the NHL in even strength goals since he's been in the league despite missing 10 games. Players like him grow on trees.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Coaches and media "experts" (i.e. professional talkers) are as prone to hyperbole as anyone. I don't consider people like Jeff O'Neil or Nick Kypreos to be experts in anything other than hearing themselves talk. And most coaches don't watch other players enough to even have an educated opinion.

Oh dear.
 

Gerard

Registered User
Dec 24, 2017
575
151
New Jersey
Most coaches don't watch other players enough to even have an educated opinion...

:huh:
Well he isnt necessarily wrong.

A coach doesnt have time to watch footage of every other team and their key players. Sure they watch some tape and they are obviously out there evey game, but most teams have staff who watch and evaluate film for the coaching staff (or maybe they are a part of the coaching staff).

I think the Miracle movie scene where Herb views tape of the Russians is old school, head coaches dont use that much film anymore from my understanding.

So basically coaches have a pretty good understanding of most players in the league - but they dont know them as well as their fans do.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Well he isnt necessarily wrong.

A coach doesnt have time to watch footage of every other team and their key players. Sure they watch some tape and they are obviously out there evey game, but most teams have staff who watch and evaluate film for the coaching staff (or maybe they are a part of the coaching staff).

I think the Miracle movie scene where Herb views tape of the Russians is old school, head coaches dont use that much film anymore from my understanding.

So basically coaches have a pretty good understanding of most players in the league - but they dont know them as well as their fans do.

You're not necessarily right.
 

Gerard

Registered User
Dec 24, 2017
575
151
New Jersey
You're not necessarily right.
Great counter argument.

There are countless interviews of coaches saying ‘Ive heard great things about (insert opposing player here) and we will have to cover him’

Head coaches have more things to be doing then dissecting footage of opposing teams players. Coaches use film, they dont research it. Thats what coaching staffs are for.
 

nowhereman

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
9,253
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Los Angeles
You're not necessarily right.
I've known three NHL coaches, one head coach and two assistants, and they would stand by what I've said. How much spare time do you think these men have?

And, as I said before, NHL coaches are no less prone to hyperbole than fans and analysts. Peter Laviolette once call Claude Giroux the best player in the world, at a time when Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin were all in their prime. He's entitled to his opinion, no matter how stupid it may be. So, just because Barry Trotz calls Matthews a generational player, does not make it so.
 

Paradoc

John Tavares is a Leaf!
Mar 13, 2013
15,373
2,532
Toronto
Matthews. He’s only going to get better from here out. Wouldn’t be surprise if he pops a couple of 100 point season in his career. I see Scheifele as a ppg throughout his prime which is great, but I think Matthews will be even better.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,724
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I've known three NHL coaches, one head coach and two assistants, and they would stand by what I've said. How much spare time do you think these men have?

And, as I said before, NHL coaches are no less prone to hyperbole than fans and analysts. Peter Laviolette once call Claude Giroux the best player in the world, at a time when Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin were all in their prime. He's entitled to his opinion, no matter how stupid it may be. So, just because Barry Trotz calls Matthews a generational player, does not make it so.

Take a guess why everyone is saying it though... What you are saying here is actually more delusional than you realize, coaches and GMs around the league must not know enough about Matthews, that's why they're calling him generational...
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,724
10,807
Great counter argument.

There are countless interviews of coaches saying ‘Ive heard great things about (insert opposing player here) and we will have to cover him’

Head coaches have more things to be doing then dissecting footage of opposing teams players. Coaches use film, they dont research it. Thats what coaching staffs are for.

What exactly am I countering here? Lol. I think you're out to lunch.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,724
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So you’re just blowing up this thread with nonsense then?

Sounds about right. Try holding a conversation and not wasting people’s time

Yes, you got it, I'm the one blowing up this thread with nonsense. Go find something else to do then, I'm not forcing you to read this thread or converse with me... Lol.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Coaches know nothing about NHL players, their opinions are not to be taken seriously! Got it.
 

Gerard

Registered User
Dec 24, 2017
575
151
New Jersey
Yes, you got it, I'm the one blowing up this thread with nonsense. Go find something else to do then, I'm not forcing you to read this thread or converse with me... Lol.
You think head coaches watch film on every player in the league. Have you ever even played or coached hockey?
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,724
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You think head coaches watch film on every player in the league. Have you ever even played or coached hockey?

Their job is to coach NHL players and game plan against other NHL players. They are at ice level and actually watch the games live, evaluating players is most definitely something they do and are likely good at. What are you trying to prove here?
 

WetcoastOrca

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
38,234
22,042
Vancouver, BC
Yeah guys its just NHL coaches and media experts that called him generational.

If they were HF posters i'd take them more seriously.
According to the media there's a new generational player every two to three years. Can't blame them for exaggerating on players to create more interest in the league that keeps them employed.
Next year it will be Dahlin's turn to be generational.
 

Gerard

Registered User
Dec 24, 2017
575
151
New Jersey
Their job is to coach NHL players and game plan against other NHL players. They are at ice level and actually watch the games live, evaluating players is most definitely something they do and are likely good at. What are you trying to prove here?
Okay now we can get somewhere. Yes, as I said in my initial post that agreed with you, coaches OBVIOUSLY know about most players and their abilities. They are at ice level every game and they watch film for specific plays/situations/formations, etc..

But the days of head coaches sitting down and watching film after film of opposing teams and dissecting those films into personal assesments of players are over. That is handles by video crews now and partially the coaching staff excluding the head coach.

So my point was that I half agree with you that coaches know about other team’s players. But coaches dont know everything about them and sometimes it takes multiple games against them until they have a true understanding. Also, some coaches simply dont care about most others team’s players in the sense that their staff is meant for that. Head coaches have a ton of responsibilities and film was taken off their hands around the 00’s.

Just as an example, Hynes of NJ has previously said before ‘well I know (insert young stud here) is a great player and he does some things well, so I and the staff will do our best to match up against him so he cant score’. Obviously thats not a quote but my point in using it is head coaches dont know everything about other team’s players, they know the main aspects of each line and big name players. Thats why rookies, sophomores, or late bloomers always shine early on moreso than they used to.

Basically I agree with you but to an extent - head coaches back in the day like Herb Brooks would be on film for days. Not anymore.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,724
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The thing about the generational term is there seems to be far too many different opinions and standards on what qualifies as a generational player. Really it doesn't make sense that we would have several generational players every few seasons or so.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,724
10,807
Okay now we can get somewhere. Yes, as I said in my initial post that agreed with you, coaches OBVIOUSLY know about most players and their abilities. They are at ice level every game and they watch film for specific plays/situations/formations, etc..

But the days of head coaches sitting down and watching film after film of opposing teams and dissecting those films into personal assesments of players are over. That is handles by video crews now and partially the coaching staff excluding the head coach.

So my point was that I half agree with you that coaches know about other team’s players. But coaches dont know everything about them and sometimes it takes multiple games against them until they have a true understanding. Also, some coaches simply dont care about most others team’s players in the sense that their staff is meant for that. Head coaches have a ton of responsibilities and film was taken off their hands around the 00’s.

Just as an example, Hynes of NJ has previously said before ‘well I know (insert young stud here) is a great player and he does some things well, so I and the staff will do our best to match up against him so he cant score’. Obviously thats not a quote but my point in using it is head coaches dont know everything about other team’s players, they know the main aspects of each line and big name players. Thats why rookies, sophomores, or late bloomers always shine early on moreso than they used to.

Basically I agree with you but to an extent - head coaches back in the day like Herb Brooks would be on film for days. Not anymore.

Okay but I see no reason to assume the opinions of fans should be taken more seriously than coaches though. I would trust the opinion of a good coach more than anyone actually.
 

Gerard

Registered User
Dec 24, 2017
575
151
New Jersey
Okay but I see no reason to assume the opinions of fans should be taken more seriously than coaches though. I would trust the opinion of a good coach more than anyone actually.
Oh of course. But at the same time lets not discredit the opinions of fans just because they are simply that. A fan can still be as intelligent or more in a hockey sense than the head coach. Are they? Most likely not, probably 99% chance they arent. But at the same time, lots of coaches have proven they are very set in their ways and sometimes leads them to be ignorant to the situations since they have direct influence; whereas a fan has no influence and thus can think freely and more reasonably (funny to say because fandom is the opposite of reasonable. But there are NHL, objective fans too such as myself who also root for a team).

Id trust a coach more but that doesn’t mean fans are wrong because the coach thinks differently.
 
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