Matthews vs. Eichel

[Snippit]

What does saying how Jack Eichel has 121 points in 128 games have to do with the 2018-2019 season?

A lot more indicative than his rookie numbers, that's for sure.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I still don't think you have read the OP...

I will also ask you the same thing, what does someone else saying how Eichel has 121 points in 128 games mean going into this season? That's also not listed in the OP.

 

[Halla]

What does anything he did in his rookie year have to do with who scores more points in 2018-2019 season? My God, it seems some people are so worried about that question they keep having to tell the world Matthews scored more at 14yo than Eichel did, which I'm not even sure is true but it has about the same importance to the topic as half the posts in this thread.

Barzal scored more in his rookie season than either player, does that mean he will always score more than both of them and finish as the greatest of all time, because he had the best rookie season?

Matthews: 0.84ppg --> 1.03 ppg --> ???
EIchel: 0.68ppg -> 0.93ppg --> 0.95ppg -->

so basically 2 years ago doesnt matter but we should always base things off the previous season?
you need to look at the body of work and the trajectory of players. Matthews went from 40g/69pt scorer to an 45g/84pt pace year 2. Now he is getting 1st unit pp time with tavares and marner instead of 2nd unit with nylander,marleau etc

keep exaggerating about the 14 year olds though. good luck with that

 

[Snippit]

I will also ask you the same thing, what does someone else saying how Eichel has 121 points in 128 games mean going into this season? That's also not listed in the OP.

His last 2 seasons are probably a better indication of how he will perform next year, points-wise, than his rookie season.

 

[Halla]

A lot more indicative than his rookie numbers, that's for sure.

sure. but then dont compare that directly with matthews rookie and sophomore numbers (and using only ppg to tiptoe around matthews 40g)

 

[LeafsNation75]

His last 2 seasons are probably a better indication of how he will perform next year, points-wise, than his rookie season.

Since Matthews first two seasons have shown him better than Eichel, I guess I can also say it's a better indication that it's something he will continue going into his third seasons.

 

[Halla]

His last 2 seasons are probably a better indication of how he will perform next year, points-wise, than his rookie season.

so .94-.96ppg?

30g/78pts in a full season would be a good estimate in your opinion?

 

[Not Sure]

Matthews: 0.84ppg --> 1.03 ppg --> ???
EIchel: 0.68ppg -> 0.93ppg --> 0.95ppg -->

so basically 2 years ago doesnt matter but we should always base things off the previous season?
you need to look at the body of work and the trajectory of players. Matthews went from 40g/69pt scorer to an 45g/84pt pace year 2. Now he is getting 1st unit pp time with tavares and marner instead of 2nd unit with nylander,marleau etc

keep exaggerating about the 14 year olds though. good luck with that

Sure you can use stats to get an idea of each players potential, but arguing this heavily over a clear cut "who scores more points this year" is absurd. The correct answer has more to do with who plays more games healthy then it does with ice time, corsi %, and what they did before they entered the league.

If you think Matthew's scores more, cool, good choice. If you think Eichel scores more, cool, good choice. The only wrong answer is AINEC, they will be close if they both stay healthy.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If you think Matthew's scores more, cool, good choice. If you think Eichel scores more, cool, good choice. The only wrong answer is AINEC, they will be close if they both stay healthy.

Except when you look at their rookie seasons since they were both healthy minus the one game Eichel had missed, Matthews was clearly the better player in all categories.

 

[Not Sure]

Except when you look at their rookie seasons since they were both healthy minus the one game Eichel had missed, Matthews was clearly the better player in all categories.

Who cares is my point. Why are you arguing about who had a better rookie season still? Make a thread about who had a better rookie season, this thread is about who gets more points next season. Do you just really need to hammer home that point to make yourself or Leafs nation feel better? We get it, Matthew's is a great player, so is Eichel, it'll be fun watching both get better.

 

[Snippit]

Since Matthews first two seasons have shown him better than Eichel, I guess I can also say it's a better indication that it's something he will continue going into his third seasons.

Matthews will most likely be better, but points-wise it shouldn't surprise anyone to see Eichel out score him. They've been close enough that it shouldn't be a shock.

Even if you want to just compare sophomore years, they were separated by what - less than 0.1 p/gp? Over a sample of only ~60 games, too. There's just too much fluctuation to really draw significant conclusions when the difference/sample is so small.

All I'm saying is don't count your chickens before they hatch - I would have hoped @Halla would have learned something after his infamous "Who is coming 3rd in the Atlantic division" thread.

 

[Snippit]

so .94-.96ppg?

30g/78pts in a full season would be a good estimate in your opinion?

A better estimate than 56 points, that's for sure.

 

[Cleatus]

Matthews, but it's close, and with good arguments from the posters who don't have their panties bunched up. I won't be surprised if Eichel outscores him in some seasons going forward. I believe both have potential to lead the league in scoring once or twice, and look forward to seeing how their careers turn out.

 

[Panthaz89]

I don't get the obsessions with a rookie season all that much Eichel had absolutely nothing around him really his first season on a team that tore everything down previously...the team had 54 points as a last place team compared to 69 for the Leafs the year after and that team was heavily hampered by injuries unlike the Sabres who were just god awful even without key injuries....Sabres had a pitiful 161 goals scored during the tank year even with Eichel on the team a year later they had 3 more goals scored than Toronto's last place team

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't get the obsessions with a rookie season all that much Eichel had absolutely nothing around him really his first season on a team that tore everything down previously...the team had 54 points as a last place team compared to 69 for the Leafs the year after and that team was heavily hampered by injuries unlike the Sabres who were just god awful even without key injuries....Sabres had a pitiful 161 goals scored during the tank year even with Eichel on the team a year later they had 3 more goals scored than Toronto's last place team

The Leafs team who finished last overall with 69 points was the highest for a last place team since the 2007 Philadelphia Flyers. Plus they didn't clinch last place overall until losing their 82nd game and finished just 1 point behind the Oilers. So even with them having more injuries they were fortunate to have just finished last and being able to draft Matthews due to how the draft lottery worked out.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I wanted to come in here and give credit to Matthews.

Not really for controlling the Play offensively him and the team can do a lot better and leaf fans will be the first ones to admit that but for coming through when it counts. This is why the bruins series was shocking and we saw signs of frustration really for the first time I can remember in his career.

Matthews has a real killer instinct for big games either his return games or first games of the year and when it went to OT I just knew he would score as I figured he would in the first. Lol

I really kind of hate McLean giving him every award of the year after one game in the panel (and again this morning in hockey central) but maybe that’s from my instinct of just being sick of the over the top Toronto stuff.

It really is something else. It’s deserved.

What he did that impressed me was his defensive play, the little things and I know he does this most games because I actually watch Toronto 60ish games a year. And usually it’s something I feel the broadcasters just look for (not always of course, I’m totally aware of his fantastic two way play) but he really does come through with his elite shot and put himself in position to get his team the win a lot.

It helps having Marleau set him up. He won’t miss Nylander as much as some think if he’s still got an experienced future hall of famer like that feeding him.

Not only that but Matthews doesn’t really need anyone. Do I sometimes use nylander as an argument (sure but only because eichel hasn’t had a guy of his caliber in his line) until now both skinner and Reinhart are set to go tonight with jack but they’re facing the bruins who are going to be ready and mad. Oh well no excuses this is a new season. What impressed me about Matthews that I also bring about eichel was transition. Matthews Individual rush up the ice looked great sure it’s against the habs but they’re an an NHL team and they came out to play. All around great game for Matthews.

So kudos to Auston for being every bit as good as the media usually presents him. He always was they just tend to overstate it a bit. Not only one panel guy but two, maybe I just notice the because I’m familiar with panel topics, and how one guy gets one piece then other another, etc.

I only get in McLean because he says hes going to get more then mcdavid and with the cap going up you never know, anyway I don’t want to take anything away. He and the team can even be better, that’s scary they just got to give Freddy some support.

Matthews is going to be something else in his prime he reminds me of a less dominant (physically) lindros.

Matthews will most likely be better, but points-wise it shouldn't surprise anyone to see Eichel out score him. They've been close enough that it shouldn't be a shock.

Even if you want to just compare sophomore years, they were separated by what - less than 0.1 p/gp? Over a sample of only ~60 games, too. There's just too much fluctuation to really draw significant conclusions when the difference/sample is so small.

All I'm saying is don't count your chickens before they hatch - I would have hoped @Halla would have learned something after his infamous "Who is coming 3rd in the Atlantic division" thread.

It’s just clear to some what IS and to others what they WANT IT TO BE.

I almost think hockey is funner when you hate teams so you find things to not like about someone rather then look at the actual circumstances their in or production they’ve produced. Aka eichel

YouTube is littered , absolutely littered with fans with leaf in there username ripping eichel as captain. Because Lecavalier and landeakog and all these kids who get the C when there 19 is far better then a guy who’s not even in his entry level deal anymore and will be 23 entering his fourth year. Watch a non-sabres watching hockey fan suggest “well what about pominville?” Isn’t his career high is better then him!?” Lol. Good to see Jason projected to be on the 4th line tonight. That should show the others who claimed pominville was such an important piece to this offense something.

 

[hockeeyyy]

I wanted to come in here and give credit to Matthews.

Not really for controlling the Play offensively him and the team can do a lot better and leaf fans will be the first ones to admit that but for coming through when it counts. This is why the bruins series was shocking and we saw signs of frustration really for the first time I can remember in his career.

Matthews has a real killer instinct for big games either his return games or first games of the year and when it went to OT I just knew he would score as I figured he would in the first. Lol

I really kind of hate McLean giving him every award of the year after one game in the panel (and again this morning in hockey central) but maybe that’s from my instinct of just being sick of the over the top Toronto stuff.

It really is something else. It’s deserved.

What he did that impressed me was his defensive play, the little things and I know he does this most games because I actually watch Toronto 60ish games a year. And usually it’s something I feel the broadcasters just look for (not always of course, I’m totally aware of his fantastic two way play) but he really does come through with his elite shot and put himself in position to get his team the win a lot.

It helps having Marleau set him up. He won’t miss Nylander as much as some think if he’s still got an experienced future hall of famer like that feeding him.

Not only that but Matthews doesn’t really need anyone. Do I sometimes use my lander as an argument (sure but only because eichel hasn’t had a guy of his caliber in his line) until now both skinner and Reinhat are set to go tonight with jack but they’re facing the bruins who are going to be ready and mad. Oh well no excuses this is a new season. What impressed me about Matthews that I also bring about eichel was transition. Matthews Individual rush up the ice looked great sure it’s against the habs but they’re an an NHL team and they came out to play. All around great game for Matthews.

So kudos to Auston for being every bit as good as the media usually presents him. He always was they just tend to overstate it a bit. Not only one panel guy but two, maybe I just notice the because I’m familiar with panel topics, and how one guy gets one piece then other another, etc.

I only get in McLean because he says hes going to get more then mcdavid and with the cap going up you never know, anyway I don’t want to take anything away. He and the team can even be better, that’s scary they just got to give Freddy some support.

You won't find many Leafs fans that think he's better than McDavid. I don't think anyone sane would believe that. Is the media in Toronto awful? You bet. Is the media indicative of the fan-base? Absolutely not. Most of us resent the hot takes these guys come up with.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

You won't find many Leafs fans that think he's better than McDavid. I don't think anyone sane would believe that. Is the media in Toronto awful? You bet. Is the media indicative of the fan-base? Absolutely not. Most of us resent the hot takes these guys come up with.

Yeah, I know I don’t blame the fannbase or Matthews for that, I have never blamed him or the fanbase for that, or said that in there. In case you thought I did. It just doesn’t make it less “too much” even if it’s not your or his fault.

Anyway I came here to give him credit.

Since Matthews first two seasons have shown him better than Eichel, I guess I can also say it's a better indication that it's something he will continue going into his third seasons.

I don’t get it?

I’m not disagreeing with Matthews being better he could be as I said in my initial post but eichel averaged 0.6 more PPG then Matthews with less talent around him and two serious injuries to play with. How is that better in the last two years. You could say career wise which included eichel a rookie season then Matthews is ahead but that’s not what you said. What you said wasn’t even correct.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I really kind of hate McLean giving him every award of the year after one game in the panel (and again this morning in hockey central) but maybe that’s from my instinct of just being sick of the over the top Toronto stuff.

I will admit not watching or listening to Hockey Central today, however last night after the game I only heard him say he wouldn't be surprised if Matthews was neck and neck with McDavid as the best player in the NHL at Christmas.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I will admit not watching or listening to Hockey Central today, however last night after the game I only heard him say he wouldn't be surprised if Matthews was neck and neck with McDavid as the best player in the NHL at Christmas.

Today after not even talking about Tavares for ten minutes it was Matthews the skill he has, how he’s the best shooter in the league, mark beough up the others hutnkypreos and McLean mutually agree it’s matthews then he shoots comparisons to Sakic, onto not only winning the selke but the Hart, then McLean said he should make
More then mcdavid. That was this morning. He had a face like I’m serious too and they didn’t argue it but I think it’s because they also talked about players earning a percentage of the cap. With the cap going up Matthews may earn more but McLean said he should ask for more and rightfully so.


Don’t get me wrong Tavares wasn’t “that” note ale but scoring a big goal on your first game is something they could of talked about. When Elliott Friedman suggested lost in the discussion will be Matthews a week ago on the panel I laughed. I was thinking is he serious you won’t find one leaf fan who thinks Tavares should be the leader of the team or better. At least I haven’t.

They transitioned into that after taking about the game because the discussed my lander and what he should ask for.

It’s all good though. We haven’t seen the best from any of the elite young players in this league and that’s the fun part.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Today after not even talking about Tavares for ten minutes it was Matthews the skill he has, how he’s the best shooter in the league, mark beough up the others hutnkypreos and McLean mutually agree it’s matthews then he shoots comparisons to Sakic, onto not only winning the selke but the Hart, then McLean said he should make
More then mcdavid. That was this morning. He had a face like I’m serious too and they didn’t argue it but I think it’s because they also talked about players earning a percentage of the cap. With the cap going up Matthews may earn more but McLean said he should ask for more and rightfully so.


Don’t get me wrong Tavares wasn’t “that” note ale but scoring a big goal on your first game is something they could of talked about. When Elliott Friedman suggested lost in the discussion will be Matthews a week ago on the panel I laughed. I was thinking is he serious you won’t find one leaf fan who thinks Tavares should be the leader of the team or better. At least I haven’t.

They transitioned into that after taking about the game because the discussed my lander and what he should ask for.

It’s all good though. We haven’t seen the best from any of the elite young players in this league and that’s the fun part.

The only reason I can see why they talked about Matthews being the best shooter in the league is because his 1st goal was on a similar shot he did last season. Take a look at these videos from a goal he scored last season, along with his goal from last night and you will see why they talked about him like that.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Both guys with a goal and an assist tonight. Eichel was empty net but he blocked a shot doing it and was hurt after. His assist was secondary but was filthy. Probably easily the nicest secondary assist so far this season, dipping and dodging last two guys with quick moves before setting up a quick tick tac toe with Reinhart and sheary.

Matthews has 4 pts in 2 games so far though.


Both have 123 it’s in their last 130 games (regular season) I believe anyway? I know eichel does, I always thought Matthews was just one behind when I said eichel for 121 in his last 128 before so that’s probably right.

And both buffalo and Toronto are 1-1 so far.

The only reason I can see why they talked about Matthews being the best shooter in the league is because his 1st goal was on a similar shot he did last season. Take a look at these videos from a goal he scored last season, along with his goal from last night and you will see why they talked about him like that.

I ...didn’t...disagree.....

And didn’t need evidence either.

My point wasn’t that they were wrong.

again I came here to give him credit.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This came up in my TSN twitter or instagram feed......can't remember.

Who will score more points this up-coming season? Matthews or Eichel?

You should have factored in injuries into your OP Jerry.

Had Matthews stayed healthy, this one would be close.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think Eichel.

 

[34]

I think Eichel.

Of coarse you do. Fully expected.


Gotta love these threads when a player is injured and not played in a month.