Matthews vs. Eichel

Who scores more points this season?


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Tage2Tuch

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That PP is another reason why Matthews likely scores more

Matthews Tavares Kadri Marner Rielly very few teams can match that, Tampa and Pittsburgh that's pretty much it

buffalo had the best power play in the league two years ago lead by eichel ristolainen and Reinhart, three of which will still be on the team, add in a skinner/sheary and a mittlestadt and Dahlin and boom. Buffalo can arguably match that.


Ahh you were doing so good, but had to go back to your classic "since Matthews entered the league".
Be honest. "I really want to disregard Eichel's inferior rookie season in order in inflate his PPG"

These are great players, you can argue either side without crap like that


Isn’t it true? Don’t understand how it’s crap but okay. Especially seeing things like “ror is better then Eichel.” “Marner is better then Eichel.”

“Eichel is spoonfed minutes no wonder he puts up points.”

“Matthews is In a different tier then Eichel and destroys him...clearly”

I also have pointed out over and over Matthews has a higher PPG average when doing both guys careers. But if you play mor your average will probably go down. That’s why I just compared both guys in the last two seasons since that’s when they went head to head with the same competition against


I skipped all the rest of this novel, but want to ask about this domino effect you refer to.
By "chasing the play" all the time are you referring to Buffalo usually trailing in games? (Not a dig, I think we can both acknowledge they haven't been very good the past couple seasons)
I'm only asking, because that sounds like score effects, which actually gives an offensive advantage to the team trying to come back.
But maybe you mean something else. Interested to hear...



Don’t have time for posters who think there comedians and disregard context due to quantity. Didn’t even read what you said after I saw you write novel “original and hilarious” by the way. Just saw your last line interested to hear. When quoting you. I would of otherwise had no problem. Good day.
 
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Holymakinaw

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No he hasn’t.

Um...........yes he has.

Going back 2 years, as that's all Matthews has even played in the NHL.......

Goals
Matthews - 74
Eichel - 49

Points
Matthews - 132
Eichel - 121

+/-
Matthews - +27
Eichel - -38

And since you mentioned PPG........

Last year's PPG
Matthews - 1.01
Eichel - .955

Career PPG
Matthews - .916
Eichel - .846
 

Critical13

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I think offensively, they're close in general but with teams having to deal with a line centered by Matthews and a line centered by Tavares means there will probably be a lot of mis-matches which should result in more points for both of them.
Eichel is the main focus in Buffalo.

Eichel is also lazy as hell when his team doesn't have possession.
 
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loyaltotheend

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@TheJackAttack what's true is you arbitrarily cut off Eichels rookie season because he was much worse. You also try to include Matthews poor showing in a playoff series in your comparisons because it skews the result in the direction you want.

It's also true that Eichel gets lots of extra PP time, and perhaps that's the spoonfed minutes someone might be talking about. I believe he also gets a lot of favourable zone starts though I don't have the stats in front of me at the moment, correct me if I'm wrong. He does face top competition most of the time.

You don't need to resort to your arbitrary cut offs, the comparison is not that bad.
 
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Tage2Tuch

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Um...........yes he has.

Going back 2 years, as that's all Matthews has even played in the NHL.......

Goals
Matthews - 74
Eichel - 49

Points
Matthews - 132
Eichel - 121

+/-
Matthews - +27
Eichel - -38

And since you mentioned PPG........

Last year's PPG
Matthews - 1.01
Eichel - .955

Career PPG
Matthews - .916
Eichel - .846



Wait...why when showing the last 2 seasons did you change PPG at the end? Lol

And more importantly why did you not add assists? Or do I even have to ask that one?

Could it be because Eichel leads both categories or is that just one big amazing coincidence...?




I’m glad leaf fans are happy with your post but if you’re going to all that trouble to show the statistics of both guys in the last 2 seasons, then leave off assists but include irrelevant stuff like plus minus, anyone with eyes can see what you’re doing. I can come on here at times and admit where Eichel doesent pass Matthews but you guys can’t even get accurate stuff right if it doesent favour Auston. Some of your unwillingness to accept things as they are is absurd. YEAH if Eich had Freddy Andersen in net and teammates that could score without him on the ice I’m sure his plus minus would look a lot better. Not as good as Matthews because he’s not on his level defensively (in not being sarcastic) but it would be a lot better. Instead of -37 he’d be closer to 0. Just like the plus minuses changed significantly for Tyler Myers when he went to a good team, Justin Schultz when he went to a good team, of course a bit of a different beast there As those are dmen but it wouldn’t look as hopeless as it does now is my point. It’s just common sense when your team scores the least and then gives up among the most your going to have a bad plus minus.


Since you conveniently left off assists in the last two years (as that was the basis of comparison we were discussing) I’ll do that for you.



Matthews-58 (missed 20 games)
Eichel-72 (missed 36 games)


That’s pretty significant. Eichels team outside him only put the puck in the net 173 times last year where as the leafs put in what 271? But I guess if I’m subtracting eichels goals off the sabres totals I should subtract Matthews total off the leafs of they did score 271 anyway then outside Auston still out up 237. I don’t care if eichel gets two minutes More a game (with no on the caliber of w Nylander like Matthews) judging by the fact he was still in on 32 percent of the tes offense after
Missing almost 1/4 of season...... and as far as more PP time goes....well again he only scored 3 g on the PP, 22 goals even strength. 17 a on the PP 22 a even strength. Then having two play with two different coaching systems, (learning a rookie head coaches system after a poor one) and deal with lingering post injury effects that would hurt any normal players skating, but since he’s elite at that it did absolutely nothing to slow him down literally.....



Oh and since you changed PPG in the last two seasons to Be in 34s favour I guess, I’ll gladly add that for you too as you should of put it since you did last two seasons for all the other stats included. (Well other then assists of course but as I showered above we can see why that was left off)

We all know Matthews has a higher career PPG you just showed it. However it’s worth pointing out it’s easier to have a higher PPG average in two years compared to three. The same way it’s easier to go PPG in 50 games then it would be in 82. Or it’s easier to ace a test out of 40 then say if it was out of 100. You get the picture but here is the PPG the last two years, that you changed up at the end. Here’s what it does look like.



AM- 0.88

JE 0.94



So out of all those numbers eichel and Matthews would of split the last two years stats had you don’t it properly like this. I mean really though, if you’re going to show the basis of the same stats, at least don’t go out of your way to add things like plus minus rather then something important like assists, and then change up PPG at the end to have that also be in the favour you want.
 
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Tage2Tuch

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@TheJackAttack what's true is you arbitrarily cut off Eichels rookie season because he was much worse. You also try to include Matthews poor showing in a playoff series in your comparisons because it skews the result in the direction you want.

It's also true that Eichel gets lots of extra PP time, and perhaps that's the spoonfed minutes someone might be talking about. I believe he also gets a lot of favourable zone starts though I don't have the stats in front of me at the moment, correct me if I'm wrong. He does face top competition most of the time.

You don't need to resort to your arbitrary cut offs, the comparison is not that bad.


First off, while I have done that In a few posts (I have even in this thread) on MORE then two occasions have pointed out and admitted that Matthews two years compared to eichels three, he’s averaged more points per game. As I pointed out above it’s easier to do that in less games played, but even if he played as much as eichel has there’s a good chance he’d still be ahead, matthews is the better overall player and has been marginally better offensively so far in his career. Most people realize eichel has a bit more natureal offensive talent (marginally) but Matthews has been able to use his talent (which is elite too) to a far better degree. He has a much better nose for the net, I do think momentum and teammates play a part, as does elite coaching and everything else that comes alone with a positive ripple effect good teams have, but so far he’s been better. Not a whole other tier above like mcdavid is but he’s been better.

Also the reason I have a problem with this minutes thing is because quality of linemates, teammates, and PP time? The guy had 3 goals on the PP and 22 even strength. I have a problem with the term spoonfed or gifted. No one of Eichs skill or no one making ten million dollars is spoonfed minutes. He gets the time because he’s the most talented player they have by a long way. Arizona Carolina montreal Vancouver New York Rangers Vancouver Canucks Detroit red wings and I could probably name a few More, not one of those teams has a player the level of a Jack Eichel. Do you notice how every one of those teams didn’t have a single player go point per game. I mean that’s what I keep hearing eichel hasn’t done, but personally I think 121 pts in your last 128 games is just as impressive if not more so then just being PPG in a 82 games or less schedule. Which is what he has done the last two years. I keep being vilified for on occasion comparing the last two years when they’ve gone head to head and the competition level is fair because eichel has the advantage but posters like holy mackinaw (who’s a fine poster no problems with him just how he displayed he stats above was hilarious) he can show last 2 years stats then purposefully leave off assists because eichel wins that then in top of that changes the PPG to last year and career and add things like plus minus even though the two guys situations are completely different. I mean if you have such a problem with cherry picking things where’s the protesting that? No one has a problem with that. No one says a thing. Because why fight what you don’t want to change I get it, but if more posters then I can count do it and you all have no issues with it, I come out and admit where he’s not as good and people cry bloody murder. Some consistency is needed.

Better not go on don’t wanna write a novel. Keep it to just a chapter.


Ps- as far as offensive zone starts, I believe he gets the most but he’s not very good at faceoffs and ROR was the best at them in the league, so at times he would take them just to make sure it was won, but I wouldn’t doubt eichel getting them
More. To me when you go up against every best d pair, every best checking line or top scoring line on the road (whtever the home coach decides to match against jack) he is always playing the best of the best and despite no stars beside him, injuries, learning new coaching systems, NOTHING stops this guy from producing. If he wasn’t so under appreciated league-media wide I’d probably spend not even half as much time “defending him”. All he needs is the sabres to be gooR or stay healthy and finish in the top ten or fifteen which is easily possible considering he finished 11th in PPG In just his second year. Anyway he also needs to start having more success. Like mcdavid it’s not fair to
Put that on jack but if you want praise, you have to earn it. He’s earned his money, he’s earned his spot, he’s earned his status as an all star. If he wants to be among the names of the names he’s gotta win. I get that.

Eichel is also lazy as hell when his team doesn't have possession.

LOL based on what? He makes tons of plays game by game in the neutral zone only players of his skill level could make, on the fly. His elite speed and hockey iq makes this a relatively easy task but when his teammates are less competent then anyone else in this league it’s pretty hard to be all over the ice. Do you base this off the fact he doesent like to commit and go in other lanes so he can be open for a break-out pass as you’ve seen him only in leaf sabres games, or are you basing this off advanced stats and all that other crap that just so happens to make every player on losing teams (that give up a lot of goals) look bad?

He can be frustrating in the same way stamkos and seguin can be some shifts (because you know the talent level is there to be dominant) but this doesent mean he’s a lazy player. I find that laughable. He’s in the worst position a guy can be, a kid who drives an entire teams offense that has a team finish dead last. Some of you are just really reaching now...
 
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IPS

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@TheJackAttack what's true is you arbitrarily cut off Eichels rookie season because he was much worse. You also try to include Matthews poor showing in a playoff series in your comparisons because it skews the result in the direction you want.

It's also true that Eichel gets lots of extra PP time, and perhaps that's the spoonfed minutes someone might be talking about. I believe he also gets a lot of favourable zone starts though I don't have the stats in front of me at the moment, correct me if I'm wrong. He does face top competition most of the time.

You don't need to resort to your arbitrary cut offs, the comparison is not that bad.
And excluding his good playoff series vs Washington.

The blatant cherry-picking looks truly pathetic. Once Matthews destroys Eichel production-wise yet again (like he's done literally every year of their careers) I really wonder if these futile attempts to try and keep Eichel relevant in a comparison with Matthews are even going to continue. Eichel's biggest advantage over Matthews (PP time) will no longer be an advantage, last night gave us a peak of how insanely dangerous that Toronto PP will be. We could be seeing Matthews outscore Eichel by 20+ points, he already out-PPG'ed Eichel last year with pathetic ice-time/PP time, could get real ugly this year with Matthews racking up some PP points. Not even worried about even strength, Matthews has proven to be so much better than Eichel at even strength it's not even funny.
 

Tage2Tuch

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And excluding his good playoff series vs Washington.

The blatant cherry-picking looks truly pathetic. Once Matthews destroys Eichel production-wise yet again (like he's done literally every year of their careers) I really wonder if these futile attempts to try and keep Eichel relevant in a comparison with Matthews are even going to continue. Eichel's biggest advantage over Matthews (PP time) will no longer be an advantage, last night gave us a peak of how insanely dangerous that Toronto PP will be. We could be seeing Matthews outscore Eichel by 20+ points, he already out-PPG'ed Eichel last year with pathetic ice-time/PP time, could get real ugly this year with Matthews racking up some PP points. Not even worried about even strength, Matthews has proven to be so much better than Eichel at even strength it's not even funny.

Blatant cherry picking? You mean by holy mackinaw for doing the last two seasons and not including assists and changing PPG to a single year because he knows Eichel is ahead in both categories yet he includes bogus items like plus minus, when your team has a goalie lol. I’ll lay out all the numbers though, no cherry picking involved here. But if you complain about the length that’s not my problem. I’ll look at this sort of like a reference point.

We all know Matthews is elite at even strength, top 5 in goals all that, but this he’s so much better and it isn’t funny at even strength makes me think you confused Eichel for Laine. Eichel doesent rely on the power play and is a terrific even strength point producer as he got 44 of his 64 points at even strength and only 3 of his 25 goals were scored on the powerplay. So this highly exaggerated “destroying him at even strength that it’s even funny” is the same kind of ridiculous as suggesting ROR and Mitch Marner are BOTH better then Eichel. lol Eichel missed twenty percent of the year and still managed to outscore the man who lost his love for the game. (ROR)


The best part about your post outside the arrogance is the ignorance. You know so little about how crafty and dynamic a forward Jack Eichel is and shows badly each time you try and make your point sound better with terms like “not close, not funny, destroy”, all of these words are in turn both comical and ironic because they’re all not true. You say Matthews has destroyed eichel production wise every year of there careers ...well that’s news to me. Not every one of the U18 yeArs as posted before, and Jack had a higher PPG in the 16-17 season (if your saying but Matthews was a rookie don’t worry I’ll get to that below) that’s not what I’m saying anyway here. I’m just pointing out in the 16-17 season Eichel had a higher PPG average then Matthews had over Eichel the very next season in 17-18. As for last year when Matthews had a higher PPG by 0.07 (which is actually 0.03 LESS of an advantage then Jack had on Auston the year prior) even though he was still outscored last year by eichel who played five more games. It’s just funny because you said in every season he has outproduced him, (wrong) and in every season you actually said destroyed (wrong again) so you were wrong twice in the same sentence. Congrats.

Even if you want to compare rookie years to rookie and sophomore to sophomore, Matthews sophomore season is literally just SIX points better and Matthews played an extra game.Eichel played 61 games in his 2nd year, finished 11th in points per game, outscored the likes of mackinnon who played a whole season and he did this without playing his first game until December that year and put up 57 pts in those 61 games while leading his team to the best powerplay that season. Matthews as you know just put up 63 in 62. So six more points in an extra game for Matthews. Yeah just DESTROYED his production there. Or maybe you were talking about the rookie season since tha is your best argument. Let’s look at that.

It’s true Matthews had a better rookie year. He again had a great linemate in Nylander, not sure if he had 50 or 60 that year but it helped assist Auston to his 69 pts, while with the help of a great starting goalie, Marner joining the team also in that same year (he’s better then Eichel right?) That MUST have been a huge assist to Matthews improving his team from 30th to 16th if he’s better then a Jack Eichel. I wish we had Marner as well if I’m being honest I could see him and JT getting near 90ish. And I actually do though but Jack improved his team from dead last also to 22nd, a mere 6 slots lower then AM did with a lot less help, and put up his lowest total 56 pts in his rookie year but he didn’t have that same supporting cast AM did and there biggest yearly difference was that of a mere total of j13 pts with one more game played for Matthews ....when comparing rookie totals. I don’t know about you but again that’s not destroyed. It’s a lot better though, absolutely.

However when you consider They both have produced this similar in the last 128 games which is the length of eichels last two seasons. The pts are as follows.


Eichel 121
Matthews 120

So you think Eichel is just going to magically fall off a cliff after producing a 0.95 PPG with worse linemates (whilst still feeling lingering effects of injury lin both of the last two years?) now that here’s a year older? Please. That’s just going to stop happening because IPS wants him to stop producing the same ammof now that he’s upgrading his linemates, has guys like Dahlin in the back end and Skinner In a Contract year? Dahlin and the likes will open up room for him out there on special teams and at even strength. I know Matthews will get easier match ups to his benefit because the leafs can really spread it around. Thats why my answer here was it depended on how Babcock decided to do this. Even up until now though Eichel has always faced the toughest Competiton and produced just fine, even more then Matthews has since Matthews entered the league. (0.94 > 0.88)

So going over all of it, in every which way there is absolutely no evidence from a point production where Matthews has ever destroyed Eichel. I even showed you above for your benefit rookie to rookie, sophomore to sophomore and both guys PPG head to head and eichel had the better PPG advantage in the first year in PPG, (16-17)) by 0.10 then Matthews lead in PPG the 2nd year head to head by 0.07 in that same year, and both guys have total pts higher in separate years, It’s 1-1 there too in both categorgies. However it is 2-0 Matthews when comparing rookie to rookie and sophomore to sophomore as I did above. If you think the goals thing is where he’s destroyed, well Eichel isn’t even a sniper and has never put up less fthen 24 when 2/3rds of his career he’s been out for a quarter season. Matthews has yet to hit thirty assists though, (on a top scoring team) something Eichel has done three different times despite having to pass the puck to guys who only could put it in 173 times last year. Pretty insane.

Going through all the numbers wasnt just for you it’s so I can come back and look at this now and help others who weren’t aware. I’ll probably hear about cherry picking or how it’s a so long and a novel. Even though it completely contradicts all of your ludicrous notions.

I see all these numbers and I don’t see any destroying going on. The only thing being destroyed is your gross hyperbole.
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23

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buffalo had the best power play in the league two years ago lead by eichel ristolainen and Reinhart, three of which will still be on the team, add in a skinner/sheary and a mittlestadt and Dahlin and boom. Buffalo can arguably match that.





Isn’t it true? Don’t understand how it’s crap but okay. Especially seeing things like “ror is better then Eichel.” “Marner is better then Eichel.”

“Eichel is spoonfed minutes no wonder he puts up points.”

“Matthews is In a different tier then Eichel and destroys him...clearly”

I also have pointed out over and over Matthews has a higher PPG average when doing both guys careers. But if you play mor your average will probably go down. That’s why I just compared both guys in the last two seasons since that’s when they went head to head with the same competition against






Don’t have time for posters who think there comedians and disregard context due to quantity. Didn’t even read what you said after I saw you write novel “original and hilarious” by the way. Just saw your last line interested to hear. When quoting you. I would of otherwise had no problem. Good day.


Buffalo can't match that PP, I know you put A LOT of stock into VERY small sample sizes but one team has Tavares and Matthews on the same PP, the other has a kid with 6 games of NHL experience that's not the same, and the Leafs will eventually sign Nylander at that point the PP gets that much better
 

Paul4587

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I think Matthews production takes a jump forward this year and he winds up in the 85-90 point range. Eichel I think will be in the low 80s.

So Matthews.
 

Tage2Tuch

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Buffalo can't match that PP, I know you put A LOT of stock into VERY small sample sizes but one team has Tavares and Matthews on the same PP, the other has a kid with 6 games of NHL experience that's not the same, and the Leafs will eventually sign Nylander at that point the PP gets that much better

I said buffalo had the best powerplay two yeArs ago with Reinhart ristolainen and eichel being the main scorers over the whole season (not a small sample size) adding skinner and Dahlin, don’t even need Casey. He can join the likes of Okposo Pominville sheary berglund Nylander whoever on the second. And all Casey has done is score at a great rate. Small sample size but he’s been excellent everywhere he’s gone.


MVP at the world juniors. You can’t say he won’t be good anyways as there’s more evidence proving the contrary then there is not. But like I said buffalos best powerplay two years ago has to do with him and had to do with the three guys I named, who we still have then the two I added In Dahlin and skinner. But focus on the least relevant one I named.

I do agree Toronto’s should be better but the best PPS aren’t always the best teams case in point sabres being the best in 2017.
 

IPS

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Blatant cherry picking? You mean by holy mackinaw for doing the last two seasons and not including assists and changing PPG to a single year because he knows Eichel is ahead in both categories yet he includes bogus items like plus minus, when your team has a goalie lol. I’ll lay out all the numbers though, no cherry picking involved here. But if you complain about the length that’s not my problem. I’ll look at this sort of like a reference point.

We all know Matthews is elite at even strength, top 5 in goals all that, but this he’s so much better and it isn’t funny at even strength makes me think you confused Eichel for Laine. Eichel doesent rely on the power play and is a terrific even strength point producer as he got 44 of his 64 points at even strength and only 3 of his 25 goals were scored on the powerplay. So this highly exaggerated “destroying him at even strength that it’s even funny” is the same kind of ridiculous as suggesting ROR and Mitch Marner are BOTH better then Eichel. lol Eichel missed twenty percent of the year and still managed to outscore the man who lost his love for the game. (ROR)


The best part about your post outside the arrogance is the ignorance. You know so little about how crafty and dynamic a forward Jack Eichel is and shows badly each time you try and make your point sound better with terms like “not close, not funny, destroy”, all of these words are in turn both comical and ironic because they’re all not true. You say Matthews has destroyed eichel production wise every year of there careers ...well that’s news to me. Not every one of the U18 yeArs as posted before, and Jack had a higher PPG in the 16-17 season (if your saying but Matthews was a rookie don’t worry I’ll get to that below) that’s not what I’m saying anyway here. I’m just pointing out in the 16-17 season Eichel had a higher PPG average then Matthews had over Eichel the very next season in 17-18. As for last year when Matthews had a higher PPG by 0.07 (which is actually 0.03 LESS of an advantage then Jack had on Auston the year prior) even though he was still outscored last year by eichel who played five more games. It’s just funny because you said in every season he has outproduced him, (wrong) and in every season you actually said destroyed (wrong again) so you were wrong twice in the same sentence. Congrats.

Even if you want to compare rookie years to rookie and sophomore to sophomore, Matthews sophomore season is literally just SIX points better and Matthews played an extra game.Eichel played 61 games in his 2nd year, finished 11th in points per game, outscored the likes of mackinnon who played a whole season and he did this without playing his first game until December that year and put up 57 pts in those 61 games while leading his team to the best powerplay that season. Matthews as you know just put up 63 in 62. So six more points in an extra game for Matthews. Yeah just DESTROYED his production there. Or maybe you were talking about the rookie season since tha is your best argument. Let’s look at that.

It’s true Matthews had a better rookie year. He again had a great linemate in Nylander, not sure if he had 50 or 60 that year but it helped assist Auston to his 69 pts, while with the help of a great starting goalie, Marner joining the team also in that same year (he’s better then Eichel right?) That MUST have been a huge assist to Matthews improving his team from 30th to 16th if he’s better then a Jack Eichel. I wish we had Marner as well if I’m being honest I could see him and JT getting near 90ish. And I actually do though but Jack improved his team from dead last also to 22nd, a mere 6 slots lower then AM did with a lot less help, and put up his lowest total 56 pts in his rookie year but he didn’t have that same supporting cast AM did and there biggest yearly difference was that of a mere total of j13 pts with one more game played for Matthews ....when comparing rookie totals. I don’t know about you but again that’s not destroyed. It’s a lot better though, absolutely.

However when you consider They both have produced this similar in the last 128 games which is the length of eichels last two seasons. The pts are as follows.


Eichel 121
Matthews 120

So you think Eichel is just going to magically fall off a cliff after producing a 0.95 PPG with worse linemates (whilst still feeling lingering effects of injury lin both of the last two years?) now that here’s a year older? Please. That’s just going to stop happening because IPS wants him to stop producing the same ammof now that he’s upgrading his linemates, has guys like Dahlin in the back end and Skinner In a Contract year? Dahlin and the likes will open up room for him out there on special teams and at even strength. I know Matthews will get easier match ups to his benefit because the leafs can really spread it around. Thats why my answer here was it depended on how Babcock decided to do this. Even up until now though Eichel has always faced the toughest Competiton and produced just fine, even more then Matthews has since Matthews entered the league. (0.94 > 0.88)

So going over all of it, in every which way there is absolutely no evidence from a point production where Matthews has ever destroyed Eichel. I even showed you above for your benefit rookie to rookie, sophomore to sophomore and both guys PPG head to head and eichel had the better PPG advantage in the first year in PPG, (16-17)) by 0.10 then Matthews lead in PPG the 2nd year head to head by 0.07 in that same year, and both guys have total pts higher in separate years, It’s 1-1 there too in both categorgies. However it is 2-0 Matthews when comparing rookie to rookie and sophomore to sophomore as I did above. If you think the goals thing is where he’s destroyed, well Eichel isn’t even a sniper and has never put up less fthen 24 when 2/3rds of his career he’s been out for a quarter season. Matthews has yet to hit thirty assists though, (on a top scoring team) something Eichel has done three different times despite having to pass the puck to guys who only could put it in 173 times last year. Pretty insane.

Going through all the numbers wasnt just for you it’s so I can come back and look at this now and help others who weren’t aware. I’ll probably hear about cherry picking or how it’s a so long and a novel. Even though it completely contradicts all of your ludicrous notions.

I see all these numbers and I don’t see any destroying going on. The only thing being destroyed is your gross hyperbole.

Best example of Matthews destroying Eichel

Eichel's rookie season: 24 goals, 56 points

Matthews' rookie season: 40 goals, 69 points.

Eichel's sophomore season: 24 goals, 57 points in 61 games

Matthews' sophomore season: 34 goals, 63 points in 62 games.

Eichel career PPG: 0.84



Matthews career PPG (and I'll even cater to the pathetic "but muh bad playoffs!" excuse as a bonus): 0.88

The raw statistics and aggregate data (without any pathetic attempts to exclude Eichel's rookie season) is blatantly in Matthews' favor.

"
So going over all of it, in every which way there is absolutely no evidence from a point production where Matthews has ever destroyed Eichel."

I just went over it, all of it. Matthews destroys Eichel.
 

Cotton

Registered User
May 13, 2013
9,120
5,611
What's with Leafs fans obsession with Buffalo?

Anyway, Matthews will score more than Eichel, goals & points.

Idk, use to be that a bunch of these popped up started by Sabres fans where Eichel would win, hell, the idea Matthew's was as good, let alone better was considered insane and would get laughed at. And lots of Eichel>>>Matthew's AINEC.

I guess it's obsession only when your player loses these, because I don't recall anyone chiming in about Sabres fans being obsessed then.
 

tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
29,895
22,024
Eichel is also lazy as hell when his team doesn't have possession.

I feel like 99% of the time I see this hot take, it's because you see Eichel isn't churning his legs like a hamster in a wheel and think he's not moving. But that's not true at all -- Eichel is incredibly active on his edges. He can outskate at least half the league without picking his foot up to take a stride. That's not to say he's perfect defensively, but this is an incredibly lazy evaluation of his play.
 
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pcruz

Registered User
Mar 7, 2013
6,398
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Best example of Matthews destroying Eichel

Eichel's rookie season: 24 goals, 56 points

Matthews' rookie season: 40 goals, 69 points.

Eichel's sophomore season: 24 goals, 57 points in 61 games

Matthews' sophomore season: 34 goals, 63 points in 62 games.

Eichel career PPG: 0.84



Matthews career PPG (and I'll even cater to the pathetic "but muh bad playoffs!" excuse as a bonus): 0.88

The raw statistics and aggregate data (without any pathetic attempts to exclude Eichel's rookie season) is blatantly in Matthews' favor.

"
So going over all of it, in every which way there is absolutely no evidence from a point production where Matthews has ever destroyed Eichel."

I just went over it, all of it. Matthews destroys Eichel.


Here's the thing about those numbers.
.88 vs .84 is a rather small difference.
Matthews plays on a team with Marner and Nylander and Kadri.
Eichel is much more of a lone wolf in Buffalo, as he only had O'Reilly anywhere close to his level.

Buffalo has been a terrible offensive team since before Jack Eichel joined, and they have been painfully slow at improving. I'd be they will be decent this year, but that it'll still be a sizeable difference between his contribution and that of others.
Matthews will have to contend seriously with Marner and Tavares. I honestly believe he's the best of the whole bunch (Toronto and Buffalo), but that the difference isn't very big and that after him are Eichel, Tavares and Marner respectively.
 

loyaltotheend

Registered User
May 5, 2016
1,254
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St. John's
First off, while I have done that In a few posts (I have even in this thread) on MORE then two occasions have pointed out and admitted that Matthews two years compared to eichels three, he’s averaged more points per game. As I pointed out above it’s easier to do that in less games played, but even if he played as much as eichel has there’s a good chance he’d still be ahead, matthews is the better overall player and has been marginally better offensively so far in his career. Most people realize eichel has a bit more natureal offensive talent (marginally) but Matthews has been able to use his talent (which is elite too) to a far better degree. He has a much better nose for the net, I do think momentum and teammates play a part, as does elite coaching and everything else that comes alone with a positive ripple effect good teams have, but so far he’s been better. Not a whole other tier above like mcdavid is but he’s been better.

Also the reason I have a problem with this minutes thing is because quality of linemates, teammates, and PP time? The guy had 3 goals on the PP and 22 even strength. I have a problem with the term spoonfed or gifted. No one of Eichs skill or no one making ten million dollars is spoonfed minutes. He gets the time because he’s the most talented player they have by a long way. Arizona Carolina montreal Vancouver New York Rangers Vancouver Canucks Detroit red wings and I could probably name a few More, not one of those teams has a player the level of a Jack Eichel. Do you notice how every one of those teams didn’t have a single player go point per game. I mean that’s what I keep hearing eichel hasn’t done, but personally I think 121 pts in your last 128 games is just as impressive if not more so then just being PPG in a 82 games or less schedule. Which is what he has done the last two years. I keep being vilified for on occasion comparing the last two years when they’ve gone head to head and the competition level is fair because eichel has the advantage but posters like holy mackinaw (who’s a fine poster no problems with him just how he displayed he stats above was hilarious) he can show last 2 years stats then purposefully leave off assists because eichel wins that then in top of that changes the PPG to last year and career and add things like plus minus even though the two guys situations are completely different. I mean if you have such a problem with cherry picking things where’s the protesting that? No one has a problem with that. No one says a thing. Because why fight what you don’t want to change I get it, but if more posters then I can count do it and you all have no issues with it, I come out and admit where he’s not as good and people cry bloody murder. Some consistency is needed.

Better not go on don’t wanna write a novel. Keep it to just a chapter.


Ps- as far as offensive zone starts, I believe he gets the most but he’s not very good at faceoffs and ROR was the best at them in the league, so at times he would take them just to make sure it was won, but I wouldn’t doubt eichel getting them
More. To me when you go up against every best d pair, every best checking line or top scoring line on the road (whtever the home coach decides to match against jack) he is always playing the best of the best and despite no stars beside him, injuries, learning new coaching systems, NOTHING stops this guy from producing. If he wasn’t so under appreciated league-media wide I’d probably spend not even half as much time “defending him”. All he needs is the sabres to be gooR or stay healthy and finish in the top ten or fifteen which is easily possible considering he finished 11th in PPG In just his second year. Anyway he also needs to start having more success. Like mcdavid it’s not fair to
Put that on jack but if you want praise, you have to earn it. He’s earned his money, he’s earned his spot, he’s earned his status as an all star. If he wants to be among the names of the names he’s gotta win. I get that.



LOL based on what? He makes tons of plays game by game in the neutral zone only players of his skill level could make, on the fly. His elite speed and hockey iq makes this a relatively easy task but when his teammates are less competent then anyone else in this league it’s pretty hard to be all over the ice. Do you base this off the fact he doesent like to commit and go in other lanes so he can be open for a break-out pass as you’ve seen him only in leaf sabres games, or are you basing this off advanced stats and all that other crap that just so happens to make every player on losing teams (that give up a lot of goals) look bad?

He can be frustrating in the same way stamkos and seguin can be some shifts (because you know the talent level is there to be dominant) but this doesent mean he’s a lazy player. I find that laughable. He’s in the worst position a guy can be, a kid who drives an entire teams offense that has a team finish dead last. Some of you are just really reaching now...

I'm in a hurry here, so I only skimmed this, but I know we've had talks about this before and you're reasonable when discussing. I'm just calling out the cutoffs that seem cherry picked, and I explained why previously.
Don't think I'm trying to crap on Eichel, and I'm not saying anything about destroying anything... Like you said, Matthews is better overall, and has been slightly better offensively so far. Jack is still great. He probably looking at a career year this season, assuming good health.
I'm sure hoping so, I tanked for both in my pool :)
 
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Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
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Best example of Matthews destroying Eichel

Eichel's rookie season: 24 goals, 56 points

Matthews' rookie season: 40 goals, 69 points.

Eichel's sophomore season: 24 goals, 57 points in 61 games

Matthews' sophomore season: 34 goals, 63 points in 62 games.

Eichel career PPG: 0.84



Matthews career PPG (and I'll even cater to the pathetic "but muh bad playoffs!" excuse as a bonus): 0.88

The raw statistics and aggregate data (without any pathetic attempts to exclude Eichel's rookie season) is blatantly in Matthews' favor.

"
So going over all of it, in every which way there is absolutely no evidence from a point production where Matthews has ever destroyed Eichel."

I just went over it, all of it. Matthews destroys Eichel.



How can someone DESTROY someone when they haven’t produced as many points as the other in the last two years?

Keep raving about the one time he got 40 goals in 82 games, Eichel got one shy of 40 assists last eat and it didn’t take him 82, it took him 67. Beyond impressive since like I said these weren’t Barzal type points where everyone scores, (that’s not to suggest Barzal doesent have great talent but they were the 7th highest scoring team buffalo was 31) almost nobody scores on Buffalo but Eichel finds a way. It’s called elite talent.


All you did in this post was show where Matthews has been more impressive and in both cases I can counter back with things like Eichel teaching 30 assists three times while Matthews never has and talk about about last two seasons, etc. And you have a weird obsession when you mock people to keep talking weird “muh” I let it slide the first time because I figured you could be drunk but do you really think YOU look like the correct one doing things like that? For talking about “raw” numbers As if those advanced metrics have ever been proven to be anything more then over-glorifying the players as nothing more then products of there environment. You know what is a really good RAW way of determining skill? Watching both guys. You watch Eichel four times a year but pretend to know all about him saying things like “I know for a fact Eichel is the lockeroom cancer in buffalo” by the way if Matthews even strength production destroys Eichel and it’s not even funny as you put it why didn’t you include that on your “best examples how Matthews destroys Eichel?” Is it because I showed how Eichel was a pretty damn good even strength scorer himself scoring over 90 percent of his goals at even strength last year.

Again no where is Eichel being destroyed. It just hasn’t happened and is not possible when in the last two years he’s produced more points then Matthews (PPG = overall production) even if we’re adding eichels whole career which is weird because it’s easier to have a higher PPG in 2 years then it is in 3 and as I illustrated in the above post I’m assuming you didn’t read, eichels PPG even still career wise (like loyaltitheendsaid the career totals aren’t too bad to shy away from as is) isn’t very far off Matthews
Even then, the two just don’t produce at very different rates overall as much as you wish they did. That’s why there in the same square in the hockey pool I’m in with otherr similar tier players like Barkov and scheifele. I didn’t even bring up the playoffs last post, you did and if you think it’s some kind of burn that eichel hasn’t played there.m yet, we’ll I’m sure the guy himself would be mad about it but I’m not because it’s not his fault. He’s the least to blame just like McD in Edmonton. Ifact the only time I’ve ever seen Matthews way ahead of Eichel is on rankings like the Toronto sports network that placed Matthews 25 laughable spots ahead of him. The reasons in the title though. They cater not only to home but to their largest fan base. Matthews also has enough skill that he warrants a lot of praise he gets so it’s just a perfect storm for him. I’m not denying Matthews has been more impressive thus far (marginally) because despite producing a bit less points in the past two years he does a lot more things better at the moment then Eichel, but this whole destroying is business....it looks more like a fantasy you’ve created and only the most biased of the biased would agree. And even when they do deep down they know it’s a huge stretch.


And remember how I said like loyaltotheend to me the career numbers aren’t to bad to compare as is, without the “arbitrary cherry picking”?

Well I’ll repeat that same thing to you about Matthews being in eichels tier. It’s not a bad place to be. Not many players are there. In fact there’s almost a third of the league that doesent even have one player on their team there.
 

nickdawg95

scoutdawg
Jan 7, 2016
3,286
1,769
Eichel has Reinhart and Skinner

Matthews has Tavares marner nylander kadri rielly brown

you do the math
 

34

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
21,474
9,299
Matthews is a monster. He is going to show the NHL what time it is this season.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Best example of Matthews destroying Eichel

Eichel's rookie season: 24 goals, 56 points

Matthews' rookie season: 40 goals, 69 points.

Eichel's sophomore season: 24 goals, 57 points in 61 games

Matthews' sophomore season: 34 goals, 63 points in 62 games.

Eichel career PPG: 0.84



Matthews career PPG (and I'll even cater to the pathetic "but muh bad playoffs!" excuse as a bonus): 0.88

The raw statistics and aggregate data (without any pathetic attempts to exclude Eichel's rookie season) is blatantly in Matthews' favor.

"
So going over all of it, in every which way there is absolutely no evidence from a point production where Matthews has ever destroyed Eichel."

I just went over it, all of it. Matthews destroys Eichel.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Matthews also outscore Eichel going all the way back to their days at the US National Development team?
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Eichel, but Matthews has enough room to grow to be a better pick in a year or so
Without using the Matthews has never scored 70 points or got 30 assists in a season excuse, how else does he need to grow to be a better pick in a year? So far he's had a much better career at the NHL level than Eichel.
 
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