Matt Duchene

[Ice-Tray]

Would have been had we not given up Turris as well, and replaced our #2 D, it was more of an upgrade at one position. Teams going all in don't trade guys who are/were vital members to their team, as Turris was.

Tampa went all in trading for McDonagh and Miller and giving up futures and a young bottom 6 winger.

Nashville went all in trading for Turris and giving up prospects

Winnipeg went all in trading for Stastny for picks and prospects.

Pittsburgh trading for Brassard/Hossa/etc. and giving up futures and prospects.

We traded for a better player in Duchene, while giving up another very good player, along with futures (was our #1 center for the past 4 years), while having a lot of cap room. It wasn't an all in move. If it was, it wasn't well thought out or executed.

It was a move to try and make some noise in the playoffs. ‘All in’ for a team with a budget doesn’t mean we all of a sudden can spend to the cap. Obviously we were loookng to win now.

Small market fan base that pays cheapest prices in Canada can expect this kind of ‘all in’ type move. You guys aren’t willing to pay for a cap team, what exactly do you expect? I know, I know, a super rich owner who is willing to lose money year after year on your behalf.

Here’s a news flash though, no new owner is going to come in and dump 80 million into this roster when the market isn’t willing to fund it, especially not local owners who are witnessing how fickle the market can be if they turn on you.

As usual, you get what you pay for, and this market is willing to pay for less and less. I’d say get used to it dude, rather than thinking you deserve better.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

It was a move to try and make some noise in the playoffs. ‘All in’ for a team with a budget doesn’t mean we all of a sudden can spend to the cap. Obviously we were loookng to win now.

Small market fan base that pays cheapest prices in Canada can expect this kind of ‘all in’ type move. You guys aren’t willing to pay for a cap team, what exactly do you expect? I know, I know, a super rich owner who is willing to lose money year after year on your behalf.

Here’s a news flash though, no new owner is going to come in and dump 80 million into this roster when the market isn’t willing to fund it, especially not local owners who are witnessing how fickle the market can be if they turn on you.

As usual, you get what you pay for, and this market is willing to pay for less and less. I’d say get used to it dude, rather than thinking you deserve better.

This market is supportive enough to garner a 40 million dollar per year TV deal.

Attendance has been solid in the past. There's a major hurdle with the lack of corporate support. Fans in the market are extremely dedicated in order to be able to fill an NHL building to the extent they have in previous years prior to Melnyk destroying the brand.

There's no guarantee new ownership will spend, but there's enough historical context to support the idea that if you're purely basing our ability on the idea of "fan support" we can be much closer to a cap team.

They'll need to spend to repair the brand and draw back in season ticket holders and walk up fans that Melnyk has alienated.

 

[Silencio]

On the HNIC second intermission panel they just claimed that no numbers have been exchanged between Dorion and Duchene's agent.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

On the HNIC second intermission panel they just claimed that no numbers have been exchanged between Dorion and Duchene's agent.

It would be interesting to hear what they talk about.

Wanna Stay
Maybe
How 'bout now
Not sure

 

[Ice-Tray]

This market is supportive enough to garner a 40 million dollar per year TV deal.

Attendance has been solid in the past. There's a major hurdle with the lack of corporate support. Fans in the market are extremely dedicated in order to be able to fill an NHL building to the extent they have in previous years prior to Melnyk destroying the brand.

There's no guarantee new ownership will spend, but there's enough historical context to support the idea that if you're purely basing our ability on the idea of "fan support" we can be much closer to a cap team.

They'll need to spend to repair the brand and draw back in season ticket holders and walk up fans that Melnyk has alienated.

Having a ton of fans staying home watching games on TV is more a consolation prize rather than something to celebrate, and attendance has been good when the team was one of the top teams in the league for a decade, at the cheapest prices in Canada by far. Again, not exactly a feat to celebrate as special.

There is next to no evidence to support the idea that this market can support a cap team when the cap is over 80 million, zero. Ticket prices are already one the excuses fans use not to attend games, and it’s not going to get cheaper with a new arena.

I agree that the brand needs to be repaired, and the reality is that a hand in the downtown development would be helpful in enticing new ownership, but the market does not scream tuning a profit, and never has, but development profits could soothe that.

It really isn’t hard to argue that this is a small, cheap, fickle market. That cherishes it’s excuses to not attend games.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Having a ton of fans staying home watching games on TV is more a consolation prize rather than something to celebrate, and attendance has been good when the team was one of the top teams in the league for a decade, at the cheapest prices in Canada by far. Again, not exactly a feat to celebrate as special.

There is next to no evidence to support the idea that this market can support a cap team when the cap is over 80 million, zero. Ticket prices are already one the excuses fans use not to attend games, and it’s not going to get cheaper with a new arena.

I agree that the brand needs to be repaired, and the reality is that a hand in the downtown development would be helpful in enticing new ownership, but the market does not scream tuning a profit, and never has, but development profits could soothe that.

It really isn’t hard to argue that this is a small, cheap, fickle market. That cherishes it’s excuses to not attend games.

How is something that generates significant revenue a consolation prize? That's the point, they have the kind of interest in their market to support a TV deal that generates around 40 million per season straight into the team's pockets.

How is this a fickle market? Go look at our historical attendance and consider that we did it with the lowest corporate support league wide. It took an absolute disaster of an owner who was intent on intertwining the team's public image with his own. He essentially destroyed his own brand.

There's a market here that could support something much closer to a cap team. The TV deal alone covers half of the player salary payroll.

 

[Ice-Tray]

How is something that generates significant revenue a consolation prize? That's the point, they have the kind of interest in their market to support a TV deal that generates around 40 million per season straight into the team's pockets.

How is this a fickle market? Go look at our historical attendance and consider that we did it with the lowest corporate support league wide. It took an absolute disaster of an owner who was intent on intertwining the team's public image with his own. He essentially destroyed his own brand.

There's a market here that could support something much closer to a cap team. The TV deal alone covers half of the player salary payroll.

Because it’s generated instead of people attending games, instead of NOT as well as people attending games; big difference. It’s not added revenue, it’s moved revenue, without all of the bonuses of concessions and parking.

Yes, fickle. Attendance numbers were good in the past when the team was good. Of course the numbers were papered as they are now, and we were paying by far the lowest prices in the country. It’s a packed arena filled with cheap seats and freebies. Looks great, but it’s not funding a cap team. The fan base is as embarrassing as it’s owner at the moment, sad to see really.

Naw, Ottawa loves it’s excuses to not attend games, EM just made it so much easier. You’re fooling yourself if you think Ottawa is going to fund a cap team under new ownership. There is absolutely no history of paying top dollar for tickets ever, and the people watching at home are not being replaced in the arena.

At the end of the day Ottawa has a player budget that reflects what it’s willing to pay for, new ownership isn’t going to change that. Instead of taking a good look at themselves though, folks will find a new group of villains to blame.

 

[Handles1919]

Because it’s generated instead of people attending games, instead of NOT as well as people attending games; big difference. It’s not added revenue, it’s moved revenue, without all of the bonuses of concessions and parking.

Yes, fickle. Attendance numbers were good in the past when the team was good. Of course the numbers were papered as they are now, and we were paying by far the lowest prices in the country. It’s a packed arena filled with cheap seats and freebies. Looks great, but it’s not funding a cap team. The fan base is as embarrassing as it’s owner at the moment, sad to see really.

Naw, Ottawa loves it’s excuses to not attend games, EM just made it so much easier. You’re fooling yourself if you think Ottawa is going to fund a cap team under new ownership. There is absolutely no history of paying top dollar for tickets ever, and the people watching at home are not being replaced in the arena.

At the end of the day Ottawa has a player budget that reflects what it’s willing to pay for, new ownership isn’t going to change that. Instead of taking a good look at themselves though, folks will find a new group of villains to blame.

100 dollars and 20 cents

your real good at shaking your fist and complaining about other others

i guess it's a good release for you. whatever makes you feel better about yourself

 

[Ice-Tray]

100 dollars and 20 cents

your real good at shaking your fist and complaining about other others

i guess it's a good release for you. whatever makes you feel better about yourself

Thanks for the compliments man, and I appreciate your concern about my wellbeing.

Don’t ever let anyone tell you that you’re all bad.

 

[Handles1919]

Thanks for the compliments man, and I appreciate your concern about my wellbeing.

Don’t ever let anyone tell you that you’re all bad.

the usual coolguy guy comeback. never saw that coming

stick to he tested and true.

as long as you feel better that is good everyone needs a place

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Because it’s generated instead of people attending games, instead of NOT as well as people attending games; big difference. It’s not added revenue, it’s moved revenue, without all of the bonuses of concessions and parking.

Yes, fickle. Attendance numbers were good in the past when the team was good. Of course the numbers were papered as they are now, and we were paying by far the lowest prices in the country. It’s a packed arena filled with cheap seats and freebies. Looks great, but it’s not funding a cap team. The fan base is as embarrassing as it’s owner at the moment, sad to see really.

Naw, Ottawa loves it’s excuses to not attend games, EM just made it so much easier. You’re fooling yourself if you think Ottawa is going to fund a cap team under new ownership. There is absolutely no history of paying top dollar for tickets ever, and the people watching at home are not being replaced in the arena.

At the end of the day Ottawa has a player budget that reflects what it’s willing to pay for, new ownership isn’t going to change that. Instead of taking a good look at themselves though, folks will find a new group of villains to blame.

It's not generated instead of watching games. Even if we sold out every night, that'd be less than 20k people taken out of the TSN viewing audience. That makes zero sense and fails to address my point, which is that our lucrative TV deal is evidence of the strength of this market.

Attendance numbers have been more or less good from the late 90's all the way up until a few years ago. They peaked when we were a contender, but it's not like that is the only time we did well, and a majority of teams peak in attendance when they contend. We did extremely well in the early '10s despite starting a rebuild. In 11-12 and 12-13 we were one of the top attended teams in the league. We've floated between that 5-15 spot in attendance throughout a roughly 15 year time period where we were only true contenders for a very short period of time. Your argument that our attendance has only been good when we were a contender doesn't really hold up since we've done well when we weren't contending.

You bring up low ticket prices, but fail to account for the fact that this market has managed to have strong attendance for a large period of time despite having the worst corporate support in the ENTIRE NHL, despite being one of the only teams with a suburban arena, and despite being one of the only expansion teams that was brought into a territory filled with 100 years worth of hardcore fans of other franchises in the Canadiens and Leafs. The fact that the Senators prior to Melnyk destroying the brand did so consistently well in ticket sales despite having some of the greatest handicaps of any team in the league show that Senators fans aren't fickle.

 

[Ice-Tray]

the usual coolguy guy comeback. never saw that coming

stick to he tested and true.

as long as you feel better that is good everyone needs a place

Oh stop you! You’re making me blush

I never took you for a smooth talker, but here we are. Bring it in here you big lug!

 

[Ice-Tray]

It's not generated instead of watching games. Even if we sold out every night, that'd be less than 20k people taken out of the TSN viewing audience. That makes zero sense and fails to address my point, which is that our lucrative TV deal is evidence of the strength of this market.

Attendance numbers have been more or less good from the late 90's all the way up until a few years ago. They peaked when we were a contender, but it's not like that is the only time we did well, and a majority of teams peak in attendance when they contend. We did extremely well in the early '10s despite starting a rebuild. In 11-12 and 12-13 we were one of the top attended teams in the league. We've floated between that 5-15 spot in attendance throughout a roughly 15 year time period where we were only true contenders for a very short period of time. Your argument that our attendance has only been good when we were a contender doesn't really hold up since we've done well when we weren't contending.

You bring up low ticket prices, but fail to account for the fact that this market has managed to have strong attendance for a large period of time despite having the worst corporate support in the ENTIRE NHL, despite being one of the only teams with a suburban arena, and despite being one of the only expansion teams that was brought into a territory filled with 100 years worth of hardcore fans of other franchises in the Canadiens and Leafs. The fact that the Senators prior to Melnyk destroying the brand did so consistently well in ticket sales despite having some of the greatest handicaps of any team in the league show that Senators fans aren't fickle.

Yes, the TV deal is nice, but it’s not extra money while the building is empty. 10000ish unpaid seats a game for 42 games a year, minus food and booze, is a lot of missing funds.

Also, you keep on about attendance numbers but we have the cheapest tickets in the country by far. We haven’t been brining in the same amount of money as other teams because the tickets have to be super cheap to get those bums in seats. I mean the team has been open about losing money every year unless we go deep ito the playoffs since the beginning. I also said when we were good, not just contenders.

EM isn’t the reason why the team can’t run at the cap, the money just isn’t there to fund that kind of team and turn a profit. Sure it would be nice if there was a ton of corporate money, but there isn’t, it is what it is.

I mean it would be great for the big bad owner to sell, and then all of a sudden Ottawa fans turn up in droves willing to pay premium prices to fund cap team, but that’s not realistic, and there is no history of that being possible.

We can fill the barn at bargain prices, but will often have to find happiness being a budget team no matter who owns it.

I’m pretty sure we understand each other’s opinions here and neither of us are going to change how we view this at the moment. Classic ‘agree to disagree’ situation in my opinion. Thanks for the discussion though, your thoughts are well laid out.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Literally anything to take the blame off of Melnyk lol.

 

[foggyvisor]

Because it’s generated instead of people attending games, instead of NOT as well as people attending games; big difference. It’s not added revenue, it’s moved revenue, without all of the bonuses of concessions and parking.

Yes, fickle. Attendance numbers were good in the past when the team was good. Of course the numbers were papered as they are now, and we were paying by far the lowest prices in the country. It’s a packed arena filled with cheap seats and freebies. Looks great, but it’s not funding a cap team. The fan base is as embarrassing as it’s owner at the moment, sad to see really.

Naw, Ottawa loves it’s excuses to not attend games, EM just made it so much easier. You’re fooling yourself if you think Ottawa is going to fund a cap team under new ownership. There is absolutely no history of paying top dollar for tickets ever, and the people watching at home are not being replaced in the arena.

At the end of the day Ottawa has a player budget that reflects what it’s willing to pay for, new ownership isn’t going to change that. Instead of taking a good look at themselves though, folks will find a new group of villains to blame.

No, sorry, this is all just your opinion. You should stop speaking in absolutes.

Ottawa actually has the best fanbase support in the league. It's too bad you are such a pessimist and obsessed with making yourself feel bad that you can't accept this obvious fact.

It's amazing the lengths some go to in order to feel bad about the fanbase. I see only the good. Tons of families passionate about their team, making bold statements by not attending.

But doesn't matter to me though. I'm chillin', enjoying the passion. I'll be fine .

 

[Ice-Tray]

No, sorry, this is all just your opinion. You should stop speaking in absolutes.

Ottawa actually has the best fanbase support in the league. It's too bad you are such a pessimist and obsessed with making yourself feel bad that you can't accept this obvious fact.

It's amazing the lengths some go to in order to feel bad about the fanbase. I see only the good. Tons of families passionate about their team, making bold statements by not attending.

But doesn't matter to me though. I'm chillin', enjoying the passion. I'll be fine .

Yup, obviously my opinion, I don’t remember saying different.

Ottawa has the best fan support in the league.... interesting take on events for sure. As for the rest of that paragraph, I think you’re trying to insult me; it needs polish.

You definitely don’t strike me as someone who only sees the good, or you certainly have an odd way of showing it.

Yeah, good on you for trying to rationalize and spin things any way you can, but families aren’t showing their passion for the team by boycotting it, I mean thanks for the laugh though. Families are showing passion for the team when I watch them cheering at the top of their lungs at the games when we score, I can see why you’d confuse the two though.

I too am chillin’, enjoying watching you spin excuses into passion.

 

[foggyvisor]

Yup, obviously my opinion, I don’t remember saying different.

Ottawa has the best fan support in the league.... interesting take on events for sure. As for the rest of that paragraph, I think you’re trying to insult me; it needs polish.

You definitely don’t strike me as someone who only sees the good, or you certainly have an odd way of showing it.

Yeah, good on you for trying to rationalize and spin things any way you can, but families aren’t showing their passion for the team by boycotting it, I mean thanks for the laugh though. Families are showing passion for the team when I watch them cheering at the top of their lungs at the games when we score, I can see why you’d confuse the two though.

I too am chillin’, enjoying watching you spin excuses into passion.

It's pretty sad you only focus on the negative about the fanbase. Don't know why you choose to do that. Might say something about yourself but that's just my opinion.

Me, I'm looking to the positive. Fans caring about their team and making them accountable. We have the best fans in the league and it's really odd that you choose to get all worked up and put them down.

 

[topshelf15]

Take a break then. I mean, why try so hard to ruin it for others who aren’t struggling as hard as you?

Struggling??

I have already stated I have followed the team since its first damn game....We have dealt with having no money for way too f***en long .When do the fans actually get to be excited about a team that will actually do whatever it takes to win ...Instead of listening to excuses and being blamed??

 

[Xspyrit]

I didn’t follow the conversation but is there people arguing that Ottawa isn’t a small market?

What’s the population in that area? How many are hockey fans ready to attend games and watch others they do not attend on TV and also buy merchandise every now and then? Oh and among them, how many are NOT Habs or Leafs fans?

Of course it’s a small fragile market, anyone not seeing that is just burying his head in the sand.

That being said, the fanbase (even if small) has been very supportive over the years thanks to the prices that are very cheap compared to other markets, and at some point when you rely on a small customer base, your sales might go down for various factors like their economic situation or just the state of the team. For example, if that team has to go through a « rebuild » (which in reality is a financial rebuild) and the owner has lost a lot of popularity, what we are seeing now happens

The team went through a rebuild in 2011 but the attendance was not affected. Was it because of Murray experience/personality and how he was capable of « holding off » Melnyk? Was it because the young team had immediate success? Was it because of a better economic situation for the fanbase? Or just because there was no boycott? Let’s be real, it’s always an amalgam of factors

There’s nothing more than I want in my NHL fandom than see Melnyk sell the team, but I believe this boycott hurts the team more than anything. It’s not Melnyk that people are hurting, it’s his asset as he has stopped putting personal money in it so all it does is giving him more ammo to reduce expenses even more. So in the end, it could result in one of Duchene/Stone gone, if not both. I understand people wanting to send a message but it was probably not very smart in the end

 

[Tuna99]

Struggling??

I have already stated I have followed the team since its first damn game....We have dealt with having no money for way too ****en long .When do the fans actually get to be excited about a team that will actually do whatever it takes to win ...Instead of listening to excuses and being blamed??

This is interesting because I think Dorion basically yelled out what you just said about 'sick of being the underdog with no money, we're going for it, I'm all in' - right before he picked up the call from Joe Sakic and he traded for Duchene - and the entire thing blew up in his/our/Spartycat's face.

 

[topshelf15]

This is interesting because I think Dorion basically yelled out what you just said about 'sick of being the underdog with no money, we're going for it, I'm all in' - right before he picked up the call from Joe Sakic and he traded for Duchene - and the entire thing blew up in his/our/Spartycat's face.

Lol Tuna,the real funny thing is how we go "all in "....Most teams spend to the cap ,we leave 8 to 12 mil in cap...But we have to listen to our owner complain the whole time about being close to 72 mil

 

[topshelf15]

Not in the mood to fall in love, with a great group of kids which we currently have...Only to have an owner cut them off at the knees ,by not providing them with the very best chance to win at the highest level....And to have my loyalty as fan questioned,by speaking out against the latter

 

[Tuna99]

Lol Tuna,the real funny thing is how we go "all in "....Most teams spend to the cap ,we leave 8 to 12 mil in cap...But we have to listen to our owner complain the whole time about being close to 72 mil

And money spent on Gaborik and a Phaneuf buyout, this teams Cap management has been poor for the little money they do have to spend

 

[topshelf15]

And money spent on Gaborik and a Phaneuf buyout, this teams Cap management has been poor for the little money they do have to spend

We went all in by trading dead money ,in the Phaneuf deal...LOL Everything this team does is half assed,and when things go wrong which been almost a certainty for the past 10 years...EM pulls out his get out of jail free card and says the word "Rebuild"

Yet we have some that think we are being disloyal by wanting better....

 

[NorthCoast]

Yup, obviously my opinion, I don’t remember saying different.

Ottawa has the best fan support in the league.... interesting take on events for sure. As for the rest of that paragraph, I think you’re trying to insult me; it needs polish.

You definitely don’t strike me as someone who only sees the good, or you certainly have an odd way of showing it.

Yeah, good on you for trying to rationalize and spin things any way you can, but families aren’t showing their passion for the team by boycotting it, I mean thanks for the laugh though. Families are showing passion for the team when I watch them cheering at the top of their lungs at the games when we score, I can see why you’d confuse the two though.

I too am chillin’, enjoying watching you spin excuses into passion.

What exactly are you expecting?

Okay, we get it. We are a smaller market.


So for us to have the same budget as a larger market, fans have to spend money on the team at a higher rate than fans in the other market. Ie, per capita, if the average San Jose fan spends $50 per year, then with half the fans/population we have to each spend $100 per year. That's the basic math correct?

So is it your assumption that we're not already spending much more per capita than other fan bases?

Because that's not what the data says.