Matt Duchene

[Upgrayedd]

Some people claim "you can't do a rebuild without you first round pick, next spring"

Well, after the bottom feel out of the season last year, the deal had been done to send the Avalanche a first, this past, or next draft.

What was PD supposed to do?

Load up, and "go for it" this season, by keeping Hoffman, Karlsson and signing some UFAs???

PD made the decision to rebuild with assets he had at his disposal. There is NO standard way to rebuild that ALL NHL team must follow ........ they do it the way they do it.......... people need to stop crying over spilt milk and deal with the reality of the situation.

EK and Hoffman is gone, the first for 2019 is gone, Boucher is probably coming back next season, PD is still gong to be the GM, EM is probably still going to be the manager ......... and the Senators are not making the playoffs this season.

Not make the Duchene trade and send EK to the highest bidder prior to last years deadline...this would have been the smart and correct answer for any GM who displayed critical thinking skills and works for an owner who cannot or will not invest into his product.

Reap what you sew I guess...they/he destroyed the present and future of this team both on the ice as well as off it in short order which is almost impressive if it wasn't so sad to the longtime fans of the team

 

[topshelf15]

No one could have predicted the collapse last year after getting Duchene. Did you? Hindsight is 20 -20, but they went for it and the team fell apart. San Jose is going for it and a third of the season in and they aren't looking especially promising. **** happens, you know?

Come on Coladin we have never "gone for it".....To the extent like SJ has.....

 

[topshelf15]

Most properly managed teams never put themselves in any situation,that would have them weakening their team...Players are the asset strength of the team, and we trade our best for nickels on the dollar...Why?? Because our ownership can only play at this level with said denomination...

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

No one could have predicted the collapse last year after getting Duchene. Did you? Hindsight is 20 -20, but they went for it and the team fell apart. San Jose is going for it and a third of the season in and they aren't looking especially promising. **** happens, you know?

Yeah but I think a big point is San Jose keeps going for it. You make this trade for Duchene and we suck, ok, but to pull a 180 from 1 season to do a rebuild? That’s just a knee jerk reaction. I mean Plattner is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Melnyk though, the Sharks are lucky to have a fantastic owner.

I mean I fall on the side that this isn’t a rebuild anyway and that it’s cost cutting and it’s been happening for awhile, as you can see with how our trades operate.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Come on Coladin we have never "gone for it".....To the extent like SJ has.....

San Jose has an extremely wealthy owner who doesn’t like to be in the spotlight, and is mentally stable and puts forth a team that is dedicated to winning. Whether they actually win or not is definitely not from lack of trying or investment in the team.

I believe he had a quote a year or two ago saying why own a sports team if you aren’t attempting to win?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Come on Coladin we have never "gone for it".....To the extent like SJ has.....

Trading for Duchene was pretty much going all-in.

 

[BondraTime]

Trading for Duchene was pretty much going all-in.

Would have been had we not given up Turris as well, and replaced our #2 D, it was more of an upgrade at one position. Teams going all in don't trade guys who are/were vital members to their team, as Turris was.

Tampa went all in trading for McDonagh and Miller and giving up futures and a young bottom 6 winger.

Nashville went all in trading for Turris and giving up prospects

Winnipeg went all in trading for Stastny for picks and prospects.

Pittsburgh trading for Brassard/Hossa/etc. and giving up futures and prospects.

We traded for a better player in Duchene, while giving up another very good player, along with futures (was our #1 center for the past 4 years), while having a lot of cap room. It wasn't an all in move. If it was, it wasn't well thought out or executed.

 

[coladin]

Come on Coladin we have never "gone for it".....To the extent like SJ has.....

Well the Ottawa version of it!

They thought building on the year before that he would be the difference. And the continued development of Harpur, Wideman, etc...

 

[topshelf15]

San Jose has an extremely wealthy owner who doesn’t like to be in the spotlight, and is mentally stable and puts forth a team that is dedicated to winning. Whether they actually win or not is definitely not from lack of trying or investment in the team.

I believe he had a quote a year or two ago saying why own a sports team if you aren’t attempting to win?

Yep,exactly....

 

[topshelf15]

Well the Ottawa version of it!

They thought building on the year before that he would be the difference. And the continued development of Harpur, Wideman, etc...

Yep and therein lies the issue entirely....

 

[NorthCoast]

Hummm, Matt Duchene was traded, to Ottawa at the beginning of Nov 2017, the decision to "rebuild" (not to trade EK65) was made more than two months later.

Do you have anything to back up the bracketed part?

Because the rebuild decision happened pre deadline and they said that trading EK was a "critical" part of the rebuild.

Unless they made the decision to rebuild without, you know, thinking about the critical parts.

 

[NorthCoast]

Yeah, this is one of those weirdish positions I see posted around here. Starting a rebuild saves the owner money, sure, but it’s still a rebuild.

What we’re seeing on the ice and on the roster is a rebuild, it is what it is, the timing is reasonable for rebuilding the team, AND saving the owner money going into a (potential now) development, but that doesn’t make what we see on the ice any less of a real rebuild.

I’m not sure what part of any of this looks fake.

Screw fake. The word was s incompetent.

Owner that can influence the long term on ice strategy based on his wallet.

GM that goes into rebuild 2 months after loading up, then fails to trade a "critical" part of the rebuild plan at the deadline for max value.

And you wonder why people are skeptical and question everything they do?

Yes, we are in a rebuild and Yes, how we got there matters because if getting into the rebuild was a sh!tsh0w then what is too say going through one won't be the same.

And I love watching the young guns. So much that I don't want to waste another generation on bad decisions by the owner and GM, and if I can't do anything about it then...yes, HF rants it is.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Don't know how you can say that.

How many games has the Senators played without MD so far this season?

None. And we were still leaking goals.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Give away the shop for Duchene including a very high condistional 1st last year or as it turns out this year.. He comes here and is excited at the prospect of playing playoff hockey ... Dorion then decides with his chief advisor Melnyk that its time to rebuild making it next to impossible to make the playoffs. Dorion does nothing to resign Duchene in the off season, but tries once the season has started with a depleted lineup. The 3 top offensive players are pending UFAs, 2 of which the team relies on heavily to carry the load.

This sums things up pretty well. It’s a shocking plan.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Would have been had we not given up Turris as well, and replaced our #2 D, it was more of an upgrade at one position. Teams going all in don't trade guys who are/were vital members to their team, as Turris was.

Tampa went all in trading for McDonagh and Miller and giving up futures and a young bottom 6 winger.

Nashville went all in trading for Turris and giving up prospects

Winnipeg went all in trading for Stastny for picks and prospects.

Pittsburgh trading for Brassard/Hossa/etc. and giving up futures and prospects.

We traded for a better player in Duchene, while giving up another very good player, along with futures (was our #1 center for the past 4 years), while having a lot of cap room. It wasn't an all in move. If it was, it wasn't well thought out or executed.

Could it have been done better? Absolutely. But this is Ottawa, when we go all-in, that is what it looks like.

 

[aragorn]

I don't think they went all in when they acquired Duchene, I think they had an opportunity to upgrade at centre & didn't want to pay Turris what he wanted to stay. It cost a lot but Duchene was proving he was worth it the way he has been scoring since the beginning of the yr including the #1 pick they gave to get him. Unfortunately, the rest of the team has not been playing as well especially on defence & IMO this coaching staff have been terrible. They have some very good young players & more coming & need to make the most of their trading assets to continue to build this team into a contender.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Not make the Duchene trade and send EK to the highest bidder prior to last years deadline...this would have been the smart and correct answer for any GM who displayed critical thinking skills and works for an owner who cannot or will not invest into his product.

Cart before horse??

Context.

The Duchene trade was made for a couple of reasons, after making it to the seventh game of the ECFSs the previous season, when the "Plan" was to "go for it" or "why not us".

PD did not want to sign Turris to an above market value deal, and wanted to deal for Duchene to finally have a true number one center.

So in Novemver (5th?) the trade was made to bring in Duchene, to improve the team's chances for the 2017-18 season and playoffs.

This plan bombed, to say the least ....... so at or before the TDL, the plan was changed, and a rebuild was in order, as it was obvious the team was not going to be any better for the 2018-19 season.

As I've said before, I believe that Ottawa showed some class, by not trading EK65 at the TDL, as he and his Wife were expecting the birth of their son. PD said he received offered, but did not decide to trade him.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Do you have anything to back up the bracketed part?

Because the rebuild decision happened pre deadline and they said that trading EK was a "critical" part of the rebuild.

Unless they made the decision to rebuild without, you know, thinking about the critical parts.

There is no quote, dated prior to the TDL, where anyone from the Senators said trading EK was part of the rebuild plan.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

GM that goes into rebuild 2 months after loading up, then fails to trade a "critical" part of the rebuild plan at the deadline for max value.

The Trade for MD was made on November 4th or 5th .... and the TDL was February 26th ...... that's more than 3 1/2 months ......... not 2 months.

 

[HSF]

The Trade for MD was made on November 4th or 5th .... and the TDL was February 26th ...... that's more than 3 1/2 months ......... not 2 months.

Dorion and Melnyk decided to rebuild before the deadline.

Its their own words

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Showing ignored content is an excellent reminder as to why it is being ignored

 

[NorthCoast]

There is no quote, dated prior to the TDL, where anyone from the Senators said trading EK was part of the rebuild plan.

Your right. The quote is from after when they said trading EK was a critical part of the rebuild plan.

So the only logical inference is that they did not have the critical parts thought out before making the decision.


And I believe that not trading EK had nothing to do with class. Good thing that beliefs don't count for $hit on HF because we only want facts

The alternative timeline is that PD didn't get the value he needed for EK because of the bad decisions made internally by him and EM. Like the decision that they didn't want him playing in the east. Like the decision to spend an extra 200-300k on the player budget instead of sending pro scouts to games where they might have a good enough read on our trade returns that PD would have been more confident pulling the trigger at the deadline. But what am I saying, that's just a belief.

The facts...are that you don't get close enough to a trade that one of the other players involved in the trade thinks it's going down through sources that are a hell of a lot better than yours and mind, and then call it class. IMO

PD is great at drafting and sucks at trades. How is this still a mystery?

 

[Silencio]

Avs fans must be cursing this injury....I mean, all we've heard from them is how much of a locker room cancer Duchene is and how much better Colorado got once he left. So now that Duchene's out, they can pretty much kiss any chance of landing Jack Hughes goodbye.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yep,and we didnt know this when exactly??This whole mess was perpetrated by none other than the person that had the most to gain from going into a half cocked rebuild ,with its 3 most expensive pieces being UFA,s and easily moved with the exact same feeble excuse..

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here, sorry.

Clearly the team is entering a rebuild, and it will either be from the ground up, or get a little jump start, depending on which of the 4 main guys the team decides to extend.

It looks to me that you guys are using various theories to explain ‘why’ we’re rebuilding as a means to somehow deny that we’re actually rebuilding.

Honestly most of these half-baked ideas just read like angry-venting, where the idea is to be angry rather than to make sense.

All good.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yep.spot on as per usual...So hard to be in love with this team

Take a break then. I mean, why try so hard to ruin it for others who aren’t struggling as hard as you?