Matt Duchene

[Micklebot]

MD was one of the leagues top centers - Turris was breaking down and his asset value was plummeting. We paid at lot less for MD than what’s been proposed to bring in a player of his value this summer. Just stings we collapsed but the original deal was the type of few fans wanted to push us over the top … or the small market version of that.

He had a great year with us and that type of player (The UFA version of him) would look great with Stutzle.

That's a bit revisionist to say the least.

Duchene had scored at a lower pace than Turris over the previous 3 seasons, and one of those seasons was the one Turris had the horrific Gumby ankle sprain he tried playing through. Turris was outproducing Duchene at the time of the trade that season too, and was coming off a 27 goal season in which he also outproduced Duchene, all the while being a better two way player.

Duchene definitely refound his game in Ottawa, and Turris has sharply regressed since leaving, there's no doubt Duchene was seen as having greater offensive potential due to his skillset, but we weren't trading for a guy viewed as one of the league's top centers anymore,

Heck, NHL.com even ranked Turris (29th) ahead of Duchene (38th) in their fantasy ranking that year

Fantasy center rankings for 2017-18

That said, my concern was less about the value which imo wasn't great, and more about the timing. An upgrade to center midseason wasn't going to right the ship, our team had big flaws after letting Methot go with no suitable replacement, and Karlsson looking like a shell of himself.

To me, the trade appeared to be more about not comiting to term while kicking the can down the road wrt deciding if we needed to go into a rebuild or retool. Turris was always a 1b or top end 2nd line center, so comiting to him before knowing what was happening with the true stars on the team in Karlsson and Stone wasn't ideal.

 

[Sweatred]

An offensive centre who hadn't put up 60pts in any of the previous 3 seasons was one of the league's top centres?

Ok.

He paced at nearly a 90pt season playing with an underdeveloped rookie for us. He previously played for team Canada.

I wouldn’t use a disgruntled players numbers as my only source of a player eval.

But Ya, I would consider that a top center. OK? I don’t think anyone thinks we are acquiring a 90pt center this year.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

Worst trade Dorion has made and our rebuild would be looking incredible right now without it, but honestly, I’d do it again. Love that he tried to capitalize on a declining asset and add a star player, hope he does it again but is more sure of where the team is heading next time.

 

[Micklebot]

He paced at nearly a 90pt season playing with an underdeveloped rookie

Who is that? Which one of his most common linemates, Ryan, Dzingel, Stone and Hoffman was this underdeveloped rookie?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Dude.....dirty trick to necro this thread!

For a moment I thought Dorion lost his mind and traded for him again.

 

[Micklebot]

Dude.....dirty trick to necro this thread!

For a moment I thought Dorion lost his mind and traded for him again.

Ot posts from another thread were moved, sorry I gave you a panic attack...

 

[topshelf15]

Oh god no he has a billion years lef.......NVM

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Just hearing this guy’s name brings up a little PTSD. Not saying it was all Duchene’s fault, but we got so bad immediately after we traded for him.

 

[BondraTime]

Just hearing this guy’s name brings up a little PTSD. Not saying it was all Duchene’s fault, but we got so bad immediately after we traded for him.

We were bad prior.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

We were bad prior.

I thought we went to the conference finals the year before, started the season out okay after our trip to Sweden, traded for Duchene, then the wheels completely came off.

Is my memory wrong lol?

 

[DaveMatthew]

MD was one of the leagues top centers - Turris was breaking down and his asset value was plummeting. We paid at lot less for MD than what’s been proposed to bring in a player of his value this summer. Just stings we collapsed but the original deal was the type of few fans wanted to push us over the top … or the small market version of that.

He had a great year with us and that type of player (The UFA version of him) would look great with Stutzle.

I don’t think acquiring Duchene, in a silo, was a problem. The value we gave up (at the time) was reasonable. It’s a shame that the 1st became a 4th OA pick, but that’s not what it was expected to be.

I think the issue was that the C position wasn’t a glaring hole for us. Sure, Duchene was an improvement, but we were fine with Turris and Brassard that year.

Meanwhile, we had a hobbled Karlsson rushing back from major surgery because our other D were Phaneuf, Oduya, Claesson, Harpur and Borowiecki.

I don’t have a problem with Dorion going for it (likely knowing that could be the end of the road with that core). He just went after the wrong position.

 

[Micklebot]

I thought we went to the conference finals the year before, started the season out okay after our trip to Sweden, traded for Duchene, then the wheels completely came off.

Is my memory wrong lol?

At the time of the trade, we had more loses than wins but thanks to loser points their placement in the standings was still in playoff contention. The team wasn't playing particularly well though. We did go through a slump after the trade too, so the wheels falling off is pretty accurate, just that the wobble was already pretty pronounced if you took a close look.

 

[Sweatred]

I don’t think acquiring Duchene, in a silo, was a problem. The value we gave up (at the time) was reasonable. It’s a shame that the 1st became a 4th OA pick, but that’s not what it was expected to be.

I think the issue was that the C position wasn’t a glaring hole for us. Sure, Duchene was an improvement, but we were fine with Turris and Brassard that year.

Meanwhile, we had a hobbled Karlsson rushing back from major surgery because our other D were Phaneuf, Oduya, Claesson, Harpur and Borowiecki.

I don’t have a problem with Dorion going for it (likely knowing that could be the end of the road with that core). He just went after the wrong position.

I agree … I think they had decided they didn’t want to pay Julie what she wanted x6 or x8 or whatever and thought the improvement in MD plus the gamble he might stay was worth it.

 

[Icelevel]

He was awesome for us.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I agree … I think they had decided they didn’t want to pay Julie what she wanted x6 or x8 or whatever and thought the improvement in MD plus the gamble he might stay was worth it.

Which is fine. But the upgrade at C did nothing to improve the severe deficiency on D.

Karlsson was hobbled (and as we now know, starting to decline due to injuries), Chabot was a year away from being a real NHLer, and the rest of the corps was filled with #6 or #7 guys.

In hindsight, going “for it” with the backend we had was never going to work. And based on what we already knew about our budget, willingness to spend, and attractiveness of the market, re-signing Duchene was always a pipe dream (although that worked out for us quite well based on his play after getting paid).

We had a better defense at the start of last season, which is saying something...

 

[Sweatred]

Which is fine. But the upgrade at C did nothing to improve the severe deficiency on D.

Karlsson was hobbled (and as we now know, starting to decline due to injuries), Chabot was a year away from being a real NHLer, and the rest of the corps was filled with #6 or #7 guys.

In hindsight, going “for it” with the backend we had was never going to work. And based on what we already knew about our budget, willingness to spend, and attractiveness of the market, re-signing Duchene was always a pipe dream (although that worked out for us quite well based on his play after getting paid).

We had a better defense at the start of last season, which is saying something...

EK may have been hobbled but that didn’t stop 99.99% of fans demanding an extension and screaming when he didn’t get it.

I look at it as a small market taking its little shot to get over the top. It didn’t work but that should be expected. It doesn’t work for all but one.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I look at it as a small market taking its little shot to get over the top. It didn’t work but that should be expected. It doesn’t work for all but one.

That’s my point. I had no problem with taking one last shot with the previous core. Dorion just identified the wrong player and position to go after. He mis-evaluated the roster.

An upgrade at C when your defense is a tire-fire and your coach is unwilling to make any adjustments to his “system” that’s been figured out isn’t getting you over the top. It didn’t just “not work”. Losing in the first round would be not working. Coming 2nd last in the league us an unmitigated disaster.

And of course fans wanted to re-sign Karlsson. He was the most talented player to ever suit up for this franchise, won 2 Norris trophies in the previous 5 seasons, and had just put up one of the greatest individual playoff efforts anyone had seen. Going into 18-19, he was unanimously seen as a top 5 player in the world.

Your expectation of fans looking at things from a purely analytical perspective is not realistic. A fan, by definition, is not rational. Why would anyone cheer for a losing team? That’s not a logical, rational thing to do.

The logical thing would be to switch your allegiance every year to support the team that’s the most entertaining and wins the most. But that doesn’t happen, does it?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I liked getting Duchene... The cost of obtaining him was too high and the opportunity for a mediocre at best team to continue to build from within was lost.
It was a gamble .. and not a good one. The team was not doing well.. Karlsson coming off serious injury and career threatening surgery .. and taking one last desperate shot with all your chips in... It flopped for sure. 2-3 months later we were in rebuild mode ... supposedly, even though we are told out the other side of their mouths they tried to keep Karlsson, Stone and Duchene... This organization if nothing else communicates very poorly with its fans.. The Leafs rebuild they told everyone they were doing it and that their would be pain... The rangers let their fans know in a similar fashion.. When Dorion, trying to sign Mark Stone up to the last minute ...and then when he didn't Melnyk says the plan was to move in a different direction and Dorion followed up with get a new girl friend and "proudest day"

Its why some of us saw no plan at all and a bunch of bumbling idiots at the reigns.

 

[Sweatred]

That’s my point. I had no problem with taking one last shot with the previous core. Dorion just identified the wrong player and position to go after. He mis-evaluated the roster.

An upgrade at C when your defense is a tire-fire and your coach is unwilling to make any adjustments to his “system” that’s been figured out isn’t getting you over the top. It didn’t just “not work”. Losing in the first round would be not working. Coming 2nd last in the league us an unmitigated disaster.

And of course fans wanted to re-sign Karlsson. He was the most talented player to ever suit up for this franchise, won 2 Norris trophies in the previous 5 seasons, and had just put up one of the greatest individual playoff efforts anyone had seen. Going into 18-19, he was unanimously seen as a top 5 player in the world.

Your expectation of fans looking at things from a purely analytical perspective is not realistic. A fan, by definition, is not rational. Why would anyone cheer for a losing team? That’s not a logical, rational thing to do.

The logical thing would be to switch your allegiance every year to support the team that’s the most entertaining and wins the most. But that doesn’t happen, does it?

I agree with your analysis of the defense and I think that was PD’s greatest mistake. They tried to pass off Lajoie and Jaros (and White) as NHL ready pieces and it blew up.

Since that year prospects have had to grind the minors before they get a sniff.